VS 6.0 vs VS 2005 (c++)

rrrado

I was thinking about switching from vs 6.0 to 2005 althought I don't have any good reason. But after I've tried vs 2005 I'm really disappointed. 1. IDE seems to by much slower and class view maybe more buggy that in 6.0 (it showed no members for SOME of my classes, even simple class). 2. compiling is also insanely slow. I know I don't have too fast computer (Athlon 1800+, 7200 rpm hdd @ WinXP SP2) but when I compare it to vs 6.0, it is bad : MFC project (created in 6.0 and imported to 2005 for testing), release biuld with static MFC (all intermediate files deleted before compiling): - VS 6.0 with 512MB RAM : comple time 1:58 (mm:ss) - VS 6.0 with 1GB RAM : 1:45 - VS 2005 , 512MB RAM : 5:26 - VS 2005, 1GB RAM : 4:11 I've noticed that new VS is building browse info too and I cannot turn it off althought I don't need it so it added maybe up to 40-60 secs to compile - but it's not my problem :~ Have anybody else the same experience ? For me nicer icons are definitely not worth to decrease my productivity :(

rrrado

Fernando A Gomez F

rrrado wrote:

I was thinking about switching from vs 6.0 to 2005 althought I don't have any good reason.

What about this: Visual C++ 6 was released before the C++ standard was approved. Visual C++ 7/7.1/8 already incorporates many features of the standard. Another reason: the libraries. Some libraries have changed (i.e. ATL), others have been improved (i.e. MFC). For these two reasons I switched from VC 6 to VC 8.

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Hans Dietrich

rrrado wrote:

Have anybody else the same experience ?

Nearly everyone, from what I have heard.

rrrado wrote:

For me nicer icons are definitely not worth to decrease my productivity

Look at it this way: you have more time to drink coffee and think pleasant thoughts. VS6 was too fast, you couldn't do these things. :)

Best wishes, Hans

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Chris Losinger

rrrado wrote:

Have anybody else the same experience ?

yes. it's really a drag doing any MFC UI work with the VS05 IDE. the "class wizard" stuff from VC6 has been split up and scattered all around the IDE (if not thrown-out entirely). the resource editor is a pain. etc.

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rrrado

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

What about this: Visual C++ 6 was released before the C++ standard was approved. Visual C++ 7/7.1/8 already incorporates many features of the standard.

well for MFC app standards are not important, I won't compile it for linux even with standardized compiler. so huge compile slowdown cannot be explained by better standards :(

rrrado

Big Daddy Farang

rrrado wrote:

I don't have any good reason

Then don't! :-D Consider the reasons that Fernando pointed out, though. Also, the deciding factor for me is, do I want to build a native application or a .NET application. If you want .NET, then use 2005 and by all means use C# as well. :) BDF

rrrado

Hans Dietrich wrote:

Look at it this way: you have more time to drink coffee and think pleasant thoughts. VS6 was too fast, you couldn't do these things.

Good point but currently (un)luckily I'm working for myself and not for company so there is nobody who would pay my delays :)

rrrado

Paul M Watt

I have loved the upgrade. I don't use MFC, I use ATL if anything. The changes they made to ATL 8.0 improve the compile time tremedously. The COM object templates only need to be compiled once per project rather than once per file they were included in. I think all of the productivity tools work better. I don't use the class view, but I do use intellisense and that works better than ever before. I like being able to move the cursor over a constant, and the value of that constant instantly pops up. A lot of features that never seemed to work properly in VS6 work perfectly for me in VS2005, like "Go To Definition" and "Go To Declaration". I also develop on windows mobile devices. It has been such a great upgrade to be able to use one integrated IDE rather than haveing to use eVC4, and VS6 to do my development. Now I can do it all in VS2005. I love being able to open multiple memory windows, I like the docking scheme of the all of the windows. All in all its a much better IDE in my opinion. The things that I don't like, yes, it can be slow at times. There are a few bugs that appear in the slider bars to resize the different windows. All things considered, I would not go back.

Matt Newman

The Athlon 1800+ is a terrible processor, I had two and they were both pathetic. I found a thunderbird 1.3 Ghz and I got better better performance. But four minutes isn't that bad, the project I am working on takes between 8 and 9 minutes. I have to make the display look "pixel perfect" so I spend alot of time making changes and recompiling. Also, I find the 2005 IDE a lot more productive than 6 (but this is really preferance). And on a side note I like 2008 even more.

-Matt Newman

El Corazon

rrrado wrote:

For me nicer icons are definitely not worth to decrease my productivity

VS2003/VS2005/ and beyond are more than just nicer icons. There is really an issue with pros and cons, all things are like that. VS 6.0 was pre standard, as many people said, also it was buggy though might not realize it. You can upgrade the C++ STL with http://www.stlport.org/[^] though you might find things not running quite right because there were a few cases where the functionality changed. The compiler for VS 6.0 is nothing to brag about either. Using the Intel compiler there is a switch I love to joke about, it sets the "emulate microsoft 6.0 bugs" :laugh: although it is serious business when the behavior changes, still it is laughable that you have to turn on bugs to be compatible with 6.0. Now, I do use 6.0, or at least the IDE since we long since graduated to the Intel compiler, still I am familiar with its disadvantages too. If you want speedy compiling, stop using microsoft, use something else. If you want efficient optimization, again use someone else. If you want balance and getting up and going rapidly, microsoft is pretty good. all the IDEs and compilers have pros and cons, choose the one that is right for you.

_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

Michael Dunn

You are not, in fact, the only person that prefers VC6. Check out here[^] for a long list of complaints about VC7.x. If VC6 does what you need, why change? Especially when the thing you'd be changing to is an inferior product.

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El Corazon

rrrado wrote:

so huge compile slowdown cannot be explained by better standards

turn off optimization.

_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

hlmechanic

welcome to the world of software improvements. Compair the speed of windows 3.1 with XP on the same computer to get the idea. (if you could find a computer that would run both:omg:)

Nemanja Trifunovic

rrrado wrote:

Have anybody else the same experience ?

You don't hang out much here do you? :-D Anyway, VC++ 2005 has a much better compiler, both in terms of language support and optimizations (google for NRVO, for instance), usable C++ Standard Library (but watch for checked iterators[^] in the release mode), and the much improved debugger and call browser. On the flip side the new IDE it is all but unusable for MFC development, so if that is your main line of work, better stick to VC6.

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rrrado

Michael Dunn wrote:

You are not, in fact, the only person that prefers VC6. Check out here[^] for a long list of complaints about VC7.x. If VC6 does what you need, why change? Especially when the thing you'd be changing to is an inferior product.

Sad thing is that vs 6.0 is not sold anymore. I'm going to start project with new company so I'll have to check out if it is acceptable to purchase VS 2005 and "downgrade" it to 6.0. I know that some microsoft's licenses allowed downgrading but I don't now if it is allowed for this case.

rrrado

rrrado

Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:

You don't hang out much here do you?

I really don't visit The Lounge too often :)

rrrado

Matt Gullett

I'd say your lucky if the compile time is only 4-5 minutes. The main solution I have to build used to take about 5 minutes in VC6, now takes over 45 in VC2005. I still have to use VC 6 for some things and I still prefer it to VC 2005 as far as the IDE is concerned. The compiler in VC6 is faster, the IDE is better for C++ and with Visual Assist from Whole Tomato Software, VC6 is the hands-down winner for basic C++ development. However, the compiler in VC6 is far from standards compliant, you cannot use any .NET/managed components without lots of hacking (which you have to do in VC 2005 anyway), both blow up sometimes, etc. At the end of thd day, I made the switch so that I could use more standard compliant C++, take advantage of managed code where needed (huge caveat there though), and have one IDE for C++ and ASP.NET. The transition has not been painless and I would say that my development PC was adequate for VC6, but not for VC 2005. In fact, my new development PC should arrive tomorrow (Quad Core, WinXP 64, 2gb, 160gb RAID, dual monitor support, etc). Hopefully that will be enough to make life with VC 2005 smooth enough. Oh yea, don't even think about using the /clr option with an MFC extension DLL. The compile time is enough to make you want to scream. Find an alternative.

David Crow

rrrado wrote:

Have anybody else the same experience ?

Most folks have been saying this since it first came out. That's about three years of "Man this new compiler is slow" comments.

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Paul M Watt

I thought of one more thing I really like about the IDE in VS2005. If you and a mutltiple core machine, the IDE will compile multiple projects simultaneously as long as they are not dependant on each other. I have one system that has 20 components. A quad core machine rips through that in no time. Multiple cores are wasted on VS6.

Big Daddy Farang

Another possible way to get VS6 is through a subscription to MSDN. That's quite expensive, but last time I checked, you could still get old products like VS6 if you're a subscriber. Also, as you've seen in this thread, some people seem to like the newer VSs better. Maybe somebody somewhere who no longer uses VS6 might have their copy for sale. (No I don't. I don't have an installation CD for it either. Wish I did.) BDF