VS 6.0 vs VS 2005 (c++)

[Paul M Watt]

I have loved the upgrade. I don't use MFC, I use ATL if anything. The changes they made to ATL 8.0 improve the compile time tremedously. The COM object templates only need to be compiled once per project rather than once per file they were included in. I think all of the productivity tools work better. I don't use the class view, but I do use intellisense and that works better than ever before. I like being able to move the cursor over a constant, and the value of that constant instantly pops up. A lot of features that never seemed to work properly in VS6 work perfectly for me in VS2005, like "Go To Definition" and "Go To Declaration". I also develop on windows mobile devices. It has been such a great upgrade to be able to use one integrated IDE rather than haveing to use eVC4, and VS6 to do my development. Now I can do it all in VS2005. I love being able to open multiple memory windows, I like the docking scheme of the all of the windows. All in all its a much better IDE in my opinion. The things that I don't like, yes, it can be slow at times. There are a few bugs that appear in the slider bars to resize the different windows. All things considered, I would not go back.

[rrrado]

Hans Dietrich wrote:

Look at it this way: you have more time to drink coffee and think pleasant thoughts. VS6 was too fast, you couldn't do these things.

Good point but currently (un)luckily I'm working for myself and not for company so there is nobody who would pay my delays :)

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rrrado

[Matt Newman]

The Athlon 1800+ is a terrible processor, I had two and they were both pathetic. I found a thunderbird 1.3 Ghz and I got better better performance. But four minutes isn't that bad, the project I am working on takes between 8 and 9 minutes. I have to make the display look "pixel perfect" so I spend alot of time making changes and recompiling. Also, I find the 2005 IDE a lot more productive than 6 (but this is really preferance). And on a side note I like 2008 even more.

-Matt Newman

[El Corazon]

rrrado wrote:

For me nicer icons are definitely not worth to decrease my productivity

VS2003/VS2005/ and beyond are more than just nicer icons. There is really an issue with pros and cons, all things are like that. VS 6.0 was pre standard, as many people said, also it was buggy though might not realize it. You can upgrade the C++ STL with http://www.stlport.org/[^] though you might find things not running quite right because there were a few cases where the functionality changed. The compiler for VS 6.0 is nothing to brag about either. Using the Intel compiler there is a switch I love to joke about, it sets the "emulate microsoft 6.0 bugs" :laugh: although it is serious business when the behavior changes, still it is laughable that you have to turn on bugs to be compatible with 6.0. Now, I do use 6.0, or at least the IDE since we long since graduated to the Intel compiler, still I am familiar with its disadvantages too. If you want speedy compiling, stop using microsoft, use something else. If you want efficient optimization, again use someone else. If you want balance and getting up and going rapidly, microsoft is pretty good. all the IDEs and compilers have pros and cons, choose the one that is right for you.

_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

[Michael Dunn]

You are not, in fact, the only person that prefers VC6. Check out here[^] for a long list of complaints about VC7.x. If VC6 does what you need, why change? Especially when the thing you'd be changing to is an inferior product.

--Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ Hungarian notation FTW

[hlmechanic]

welcome to the world of software improvements. Compair the speed of windows 3.1 with XP on the same computer to get the idea. (if you could find a computer that would run both:omg:)

[El Corazon]

rrrado wrote:

so huge compile slowdown cannot be explained by better standards

turn off optimization.

_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

[Nemanja Trifunovic]

rrrado wrote:

Have anybody else the same experience ?

You don't hang out much here do you? :-D Anyway, VC++ 2005 has a much better compiler, both in terms of language support and optimizations (google for NRVO, for instance), usable C++ Standard Library (but watch for checked iterators[^] in the release mode), and the much improved debugger and call browser. On the flip side the new IDE it is all but unusable for MFC development, so if that is your main line of work, better stick to VC6.

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Programming Blog utf8-cpp

[rrrado]

Michael Dunn wrote:

You are not, in fact, the only person that prefers VC6. Check out here[^] for a long list of complaints about VC7.x. If VC6 does what you need, why change? Especially when the thing you'd be changing to is an inferior product.

Sad thing is that vs 6.0 is not sold anymore. I'm going to start project with new company so I'll have to check out if it is acceptable to purchase VS 2005 and "downgrade" it to 6.0. I know that some microsoft's licenses allowed downgrading but I don't now if it is allowed for this case.

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rrrado

[rrrado]

Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:

You don't hang out much here do you?

I really don't visit The Lounge too often :)

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rrrado

[Matt Gullett]

I'd say your lucky if the compile time is only 4-5 minutes. The main solution I have to build used to take about 5 minutes in VC6, now takes over 45 in VC2005. I still have to use VC 6 for some things and I still prefer it to VC 2005 as far as the IDE is concerned. The compiler in VC6 is faster, the IDE is better for C++ and with Visual Assist from Whole Tomato Software, VC6 is the hands-down winner for basic C++ development. However, the compiler in VC6 is far from standards compliant, you cannot use any .NET/managed components without lots of hacking (which you have to do in VC 2005 anyway), both blow up sometimes, etc. At the end of thd day, I made the switch so that I could use more standard compliant C++, take advantage of managed code where needed (huge caveat there though), and have one IDE for C++ and ASP.NET. The transition has not been painless and I would say that my development PC was adequate for VC6, but not for VC 2005. In fact, my new development PC should arrive tomorrow (Quad Core, WinXP 64, 2gb, 160gb RAID, dual monitor support, etc). Hopefully that will be enough to make life with VC 2005 smooth enough. Oh yea, don't even think about using the /clr option with an MFC extension DLL. The compile time is enough to make you want to scream. Find an alternative.

[David Crow]

rrrado wrote:

Have anybody else the same experience ?

Most folks have been saying this since it first came out. That's about three years of "Man this new compiler is slow" comments.

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"A good athlete is the result of a good and worthy opponent." - David Crow

"To have a respect for ourselves guides our morals; to have deference for others governs our manners." - Laurence Sterne

[Paul M Watt]

I thought of one more thing I really like about the IDE in VS2005. If you and a mutltiple core machine, the IDE will compile multiple projects simultaneously as long as they are not dependant on each other. I have one system that has 20 components. A quad core machine rips through that in no time. Multiple cores are wasted on VS6.

[Big Daddy Farang]

Another possible way to get VS6 is through a subscription to MSDN. That's quite expensive, but last time I checked, you could still get old products like VS6 if you're a subscriber. Also, as you've seen in this thread, some people seem to like the newer VSs better. Maybe somebody somewhere who no longer uses VS6 might have their copy for sale. (No I don't. I don't have an installation CD for it either. Wish I did.) BDF

[Shog9 0]

rrrado wrote:

IDE seems to by much slower and class view maybe more buggy that in 6.0 (it showed no members for SOME of my classes, even simple class).

I've had the opposite experience - Class View and Intellisense both were usually broken for me using VS6, especially when dealing with templates. The whole "browse info" thing felt tacked on and wasn't worth the additional build time - VS2005's ability to navigate through large class structures without an explicit build step has been very useful.

rrrado wrote:

2. compiling is also insanely slow.

Make sure you have plenty of memory, and have configured pre-compiled headers properly - on one project, I saw compile times drop from nearly an hour before configuring PCH to just under 20 minutes - only slightly longer than in VC6. Frankly, the improvements to the compiler and standard libraries were worth it for me - and the debugger is so much better it's not even funny; i used the VS2005 debugger for close to a year before moving to VS2005 for builds. The IDE itself has some issues, but frankly it's a half-decent text editor - i can live without the wizards.

every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?

[Chris Losinger]

Paul Watt wrote:

Multiple cores are wasted on VS6.

no way! something's gotta be running iTunes and FireFox while VC6 builds. i vote the other core gets it.

Paul Watt wrote:

If you and a mutltiple core machine, the IDE will compile multiple projects simultaneously as long as they are not dependant on each other.

it's fun to watch the performance monitor while VS05 is chugging away. sometimes it'll hit 100% and sit there, then drop down to a solid 50%, when it hits something it can't do in parallel.

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[Jorgen Sigvardsson]

Chris Losinger wrote:

the resource editor is a pain. etc.

It started to suck real bad in VS.NET 2k3, which is one of the reason why I do much resource editing directly in the .rc file these days. Feels like a step backwards... :~

-- Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[Hamed Musavi]

hlmechanic wrote:

welcome to the world of software improvements

It's different actually. VS 6.0 is more quick but is not like Win3.1 compared to win95. Considering the fact that he is going to do MFC, I believe it's just the opposite. It's not that "it's a bit slower", It's so damn slow that I had to search the web and learn how to rename or remove a file and disable intellisense totally, to be able to work. Even this job did not solved all performance problems. Don't believe it, Try to add some member variable or functions to see what is real pain. And my machine is not quick, but not that slow: An Intel p4 2.4(1MB L2 cache), 2HDD both 7200rpm sata 80GB and 300GB(8MB buffer), 1GB of ram and my os was xp sp2. Then comes the most important part of MFC, ClassWizard, it's completely broken. At least win95 improved many things over 3.1, but for MFC, I don't think that's the case. Just compiler is better, and that's the part I can't see.;) I suggest he should download 90 day trial of VS 2005 professional and test it, before upgrade. And of course disable intellisense during this test time. I'm sure in the end, he will stick with VS 6.0.

// "Life is very short and is very fragile also." Yanni
while (I'm_alive)
{
cout<<"I love programming.";
}

[Chris Losinger]

Joergen Sigvardsson wrote:

Feels like a step backwards.

it is. it's the VB resource editor paradigm.

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[Hamed Musavi]

Shog9 wrote:

I've had the opposite experience - Class View and Intellisense both were usually broken

Shog9 wrote:

The IDE itself has some issues, but frankly it's a half-decent text editor

I'm pretty sure you are not doing most of your work in MFC IDE, or you have a mainframe;). I tested it for over a month, and did all I could to continue using it. I failed, because I was spending more time to fight the slow IDE and the lost ClassWizard rather than coding. It also was a good reason to loose focus. As mentioned in another post, my best suggestion is that, he uses a 90 day trial of VS 2005 professional and check everything himself.

// "Life is very short and is very fragile also." Yanni
while (I'm_alive)
{
cout<<"I love programming.";
}