Microsoft Developers: Messing with your head. Again
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Office 2007 no longer has FrontPage. It now comes with a new "improved" HTML editor/designer called Sharepoint Designer. This is basically FrontPage with added extras and some things removed. Such as the incredibly handy in-app preview that didn't require you to actually save a file to disk when quickly slapping 2 lines of HTML together. But I digress. FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc). It seems Sharepoint designer uses the same codebase which leads to the question: why did a developer decide that if you highlight one work in a paragraph and try to make it italics, the entire paragraph is italicised. Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I thought the FrontPage replacement was called Expression and Sharepoint Designer was geared more for Collaborative sites hosted on Sharepoint Server sites. :confused: Steve
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Did you uncheck the auto-format? I never once had a problem with it.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
No, but I'm not sure FrontPage '98 had the option to do so... and ok, so it's unfair to judge the current (or last) version on a bad experience, but... FrontPage - once bitten, twice shy!
"It was the day before today.... I remember it like it was yesterday." -Moleman
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Office 2007 no longer has FrontPage. It now comes with a new "improved" HTML editor/designer called Sharepoint Designer. This is basically FrontPage with added extras and some things removed. Such as the incredibly handy in-app preview that didn't require you to actually save a file to disk when quickly slapping 2 lines of HTML together. But I digress. FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc). It seems Sharepoint designer uses the same codebase which leads to the question: why did a developer decide that if you highlight one work in a paragraph and try to make it italics, the entire paragraph is italicised. Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Office 2007 no longer has FrontPage. It now comes with a new "improved" HTML editor/designer called Sharepoint Designer. This is basically FrontPage with added extras and some things removed. Such as the incredibly handy in-app preview that didn't require you to actually save a file to disk when quickly slapping 2 lines of HTML together. But I digress. FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc). It seems Sharepoint designer uses the same codebase which leads to the question: why did a developer decide that if you highlight one work in a paragraph and try to make it italics, the entire paragraph is italicised. Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Probably for the same reasons that Path.Combine doesn't work in a logical manner. Design by committee, and groupthink.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ "I am working on a project that will convert a FORTRAN code to corresponding C++ code.I am not aware of FORTRAN syntax" ( spotted in the C++/CLI forum )
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Office 2007 no longer has FrontPage. It now comes with a new "improved" HTML editor/designer called Sharepoint Designer. This is basically FrontPage with added extras and some things removed. Such as the incredibly handy in-app preview that didn't require you to actually save a file to disk when quickly slapping 2 lines of HTML together. But I digress. FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc). It seems Sharepoint designer uses the same codebase which leads to the question: why did a developer decide that if you highlight one work in a paragraph and try to make it italics, the entire paragraph is italicised. Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
Yes Chris, it's because they hate you. They're all out to get you. In fact Microsoft was founded with the sole principal of p-ing you off. :-D
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
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Office 2007 no longer has FrontPage. It now comes with a new "improved" HTML editor/designer called Sharepoint Designer. This is basically FrontPage with added extras and some things removed. Such as the incredibly handy in-app preview that didn't require you to actually save a file to disk when quickly slapping 2 lines of HTML together. But I digress. FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc). It seems Sharepoint designer uses the same codebase which leads to the question: why did a developer decide that if you highlight one work in a paragraph and try to make it italics, the entire paragraph is italicised. Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Expression Web is the successor to FrontPage.
Kevin
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Yeah, my FrontPage MSI is precious (gollum!) to me. I use it for article writing. OK, there's probably some other, possible free, possibly cheap, possibly better HTML editor out there, that maybe supports split-view, but it pisses me off the Microsoft killed a product that was, for once, useful and usable (though I think some people really hated FrontPage). But to integrate and HTML editor/designer with Sharepoint? I wonder when Microsoft will actually start employing the best practices it sort of preaches to those of us that don't program in VB--modularity in this case. Digression--my associate has been pulling his hair out with the Sharepoint/MOSS API. He says it's such a POS that he's having to write wrappers around all the API functions. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
I use it for article writing.
I did as well, including my codeproject articles. However, I still thought it sucked, so good riddance.
Marc Clifton wrote:
it pisses me off the Microsoft killed a product that was, for once, useful and usable (though I think some people really hated FrontPage).
It's been replaced by Expression Web, which is better. Though I've hardly had cause to use it so far. I got it free at some Microsoft developer event.
Kevin
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
Yes Chris, it's because they hate you. They're all out to get you. In fact Microsoft was founded with the sole principal of p-ing you off. :-D
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
ah HA! I knew someone would let that slip eventually. Well I'm on to you know. On to you all! Mwahahaha <curls up and gibbers in a corner>
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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ah HA! I knew someone would let that slip eventually. Well I'm on to you know. On to you all! Mwahahaha <curls up and gibbers in a corner>
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Office 2007 no longer has FrontPage. It now comes with a new "improved" HTML editor/designer called Sharepoint Designer. This is basically FrontPage with added extras and some things removed. Such as the incredibly handy in-app preview that didn't require you to actually save a file to disk when quickly slapping 2 lines of HTML together. But I digress. FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc). It seems Sharepoint designer uses the same codebase which leads to the question: why did a developer decide that if you highlight one work in a paragraph and try to make it italics, the entire paragraph is italicised. Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc).
did I miss something? the front page I used did all those things and more. such a shame FP is no longer with us! :((
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Real web developers Get The Job Done with FrontPage, but remove any FrontPage meta tags before they upload... :~
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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ah HA! I knew someone would let that slip eventually. Well I'm on to you know. On to you all! Mwahahaha <curls up and gibbers in a corner>
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
CP is all a subtle revenge on MS then? Wow. That is genius. Subtle but genius.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Office 2007 no longer has FrontPage. It now comes with a new "improved" HTML editor/designer called Sharepoint Designer. This is basically FrontPage with added extras and some things removed. Such as the incredibly handy in-app preview that didn't require you to actually save a file to disk when quickly slapping 2 lines of HTML together. But I digress. FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc). It seems Sharepoint designer uses the same codebase which leads to the question: why did a developer decide that if you highlight one work in a paragraph and try to make it italics, the entire paragraph is italicised. Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I read the first six words and was about to reply with words such as "crazy", "are", "you" and was then going to say try Expression Wed Designer. Then I read the next 13 words and my reply is now; you poor bastard. FrontPage rules, find it somewhere on old discs. I'm sure David Wulff could help you... though actually he likes the abomination that is Sharepoint. So maybe he'll just make it worse. Man, I thought Frontpage was bad. Then I tried Sharepoint Designer awhile back, on my freaking lunch break, for fun, and realised Frontpage was a minior minion of the top level of hell where they merely slather you in warm cocoa butter for all eternity in comparison to the Satanic depths of Sharepoint Designer. (Seriously though. Try Expression Webdesigner. I'd almost use it as my "Real Web Dev" tool every day. Almost. It doesn't work on OS X sadly.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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I read the first six words and was about to reply with words such as "crazy", "are", "you" and was then going to say try Expression Wed Designer. Then I read the next 13 words and my reply is now; you poor bastard. FrontPage rules, find it somewhere on old discs. I'm sure David Wulff could help you... though actually he likes the abomination that is Sharepoint. So maybe he'll just make it worse. Man, I thought Frontpage was bad. Then I tried Sharepoint Designer awhile back, on my freaking lunch break, for fun, and realised Frontpage was a minior minion of the top level of hell where they merely slather you in warm cocoa butter for all eternity in comparison to the Satanic depths of Sharepoint Designer. (Seriously though. Try Expression Webdesigner. I'd almost use it as my "Real Web Dev" tool every day. Almost. It doesn't work on OS X sadly.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
I hate any form of working with a web page and have done for about 10 years (since I had a really nice WYSIWYG tool that actually did what you expected). Wish I could remember what it was. Pagemill maybe. Last night, I spent an hour using VS to try and insert a simple table onto a web page. The table sits inside a content place holder. As soon as the table width reaches about half the avalable width in the CPH, it starts to screw up the design of the MASTER page, changing column width etc. Trying to format the table borders is apparrently impossible. I could format the outer border as I wished but the only option I could achieve inside the table was to put a discrete border around every cell - and these borders don't join up. Does anyone know if it is possible to produce useable tables in VS/VWD? Rich
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I hate any form of working with a web page and have done for about 10 years (since I had a really nice WYSIWYG tool that actually did what you expected). Wish I could remember what it was. Pagemill maybe. Last night, I spent an hour using VS to try and insert a simple table onto a web page. The table sits inside a content place holder. As soon as the table width reaches about half the avalable width in the CPH, it starts to screw up the design of the MASTER page, changing column width etc. Trying to format the table borders is apparrently impossible. I could format the outer border as I wished but the only option I could achieve inside the table was to put a discrete border around every cell - and these borders don't join up. Does anyone know if it is possible to produce useable tables in VS/VWD? Rich
Well, I am a web-developer and I love working with web-pages. :)
Rich Leyshon wrote:
Trying to format the table borders is apparrently impossible. I could format the outer border as I wished but the only option I could achieve inside the table was to put a discrete border around every cell - and these borders don't join up.
I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve but if you want cell borders with no spacing then put cellpadding="0" and set the table's border type to collapse. This page may help[^].
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
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Well, I am a web-developer and I love working with web-pages. :)
Rich Leyshon wrote:
Trying to format the table borders is apparrently impossible. I could format the outer border as I wished but the only option I could achieve inside the table was to put a discrete border around every cell - and these borders don't join up.
I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve but if you want cell borders with no spacing then put cellpadding="0" and set the table's border type to collapse. This page may help[^].
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
Thanks Paul. It was the cell spacing that caused the problem. Although it seems to depend where you look - under Style, the spacing was okay but not under Properties. I'm convinced web design is like playing the drums, you've either got it or you haven't! However, should anyone wish to py £1M for a great design, I am still interested. Paul, want to take on a sub-contract?!!!!! Cheers, Rich
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Office 2007 no longer has FrontPage. It now comes with a new "improved" HTML editor/designer called Sharepoint Designer. This is basically FrontPage with added extras and some things removed. Such as the incredibly handy in-app preview that didn't require you to actually save a file to disk when quickly slapping 2 lines of HTML together. But I digress. FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc). It seems Sharepoint designer uses the same codebase which leads to the question: why did a developer decide that if you highlight one work in a paragraph and try to make it italics, the entire paragraph is italicised. Why? Becuase it seemed like A Good Idea At The Time. Because a single italic word will get lonely? Because you hate me?
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
I really like FrontPage 2003. This one they really got "right". I'm not a web developer myself - so when I want to work on a couple of my web pages I like the fact that I don't have to do all the dirty-work to make it work. The thing I do like, however, is that I *can* dive under the covers and tweak the source code if I need to - throw in some VBScript here and there. You can have my copy of O2003 (and FP 2003) when you can pry it out of my cold, dead fingers! -CB :)
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I read the first six words and was about to reply with words such as "crazy", "are", "you" and was then going to say try Expression Wed Designer. Then I read the next 13 words and my reply is now; you poor bastard. FrontPage rules, find it somewhere on old discs. I'm sure David Wulff could help you... though actually he likes the abomination that is Sharepoint. So maybe he'll just make it worse. Man, I thought Frontpage was bad. Then I tried Sharepoint Designer awhile back, on my freaking lunch break, for fun, and realised Frontpage was a minior minion of the top level of hell where they merely slather you in warm cocoa butter for all eternity in comparison to the Satanic depths of Sharepoint Designer. (Seriously though. Try Expression Webdesigner. I'd almost use it as my "Real Web Dev" tool every day. Almost. It doesn't work on OS X sadly.)
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
And with that, Paul closed his browser, sipped his herbal tea, fixed the flower in his hair, and smiled brightly at the multitude of cute, furry animals flocking around the grassy hillside where he sat coding Ruby on his Mac...
I'm downloading Expression Web. May Bob have mercy on my soul...
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Chris Maunder wrote:
FrontPage was great because it was simple, straightforward, it didn't screw around with HTML too much, it didn't try to impose anything on you (formatting, styles etc).
Urrrp! I must have missed the last few releases of FrontPage because this was exactly what it *did* do a few years back.
"I don't want more choice. I just want better things!" - Edina Monsoon
You're right, the older versions of Frontpage were well known for reformatting your HTML code. The most recent version of FP was very good at not reformatting. It's a great WYSIWYG editor for doing page layouts, imo, although, NEVER mention that you use Frontpage for ANYTHING while at a job interview lol It will instantly ruin your credibility, trust me :)
Regards, Jonathan Scott