the end
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Sorry to hear it. Now you have new opportunity. You can find another j.o.b. (just over broke), become a contractor, or start your own business. Figure out what you want to do and get active.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
J.O.B. (Just Over Broke) Scam alert! (Amway, Quixtar, Alticor - whatever they're calling it now). Tell Dex he can shove it where the sun don't shine. -CB
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Marco Turrini, in a commercial on TV they say something like: "One of the common humanity errors is to believe that old things will never come back!" :) As for you mate, pick the time to update yourself while searching for a new job. Best luck for you!
AlexCode wrote:
"One of the common humanity errors is to believe that old things will never come back!"
That's exactly the reason why I said "[to be continued, I fear...]":((. I hope a T-Rex [b]eats me before I'm ordered to look at a single line of Cobol code X| X| , which usually spans over several lines of text: how could I ever forget that code had to start at column 8 and end at column 72:mad: (perfect for printing code destroying Amazonic rain forest)?
Marco Turrini
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my department is being boxed and shipped to another city i have no future. X|
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
I've felt like this a couple of times before, but it's an illusion. It feels hopeless like this and then you get a job offer. Use your off time to upgrade your skills; it will make you more effective and help you make a better impression at job interviews. Here in Michigan, we have the highest unemployment rate in the US. Ford laid off literally tens of thousands of employees here, flooding the job market while I was looking for a job. I read Effective STL and Effective C# in the months I was unemployed. They enriched my understanding of C++ and C# significantly. I'm glad I did it. Then after over six months, I got two job offers in one week, one of them 12 minutes from home! Hang in there! Keep sending your resume out and going to job interviews. At the very least, you'll get a better idea what skills employers in your area are looking for. I know it sounds like a cliche, but you often get a better job than you had before, that you couldn't have anticipated.
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AlexCode wrote:
"One of the common humanity errors is to believe that old things will never come back!"
That's exactly the reason why I said "[to be continued, I fear...]":((. I hope a T-Rex [b]eats me before I'm ordered to look at a single line of Cobol code X| X| , which usually spans over several lines of text: how could I ever forget that code had to start at column 8 and end at column 72:mad: (perfect for printing code destroying Amazonic rain forest)?
Marco Turrini
If it makes you feel any better, the wood used to make paper is farmed, not harvested from old growth.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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AlexCode wrote:
"One of the common humanity errors is to believe that old things will never come back!"
That's exactly the reason why I said "[to be continued, I fear...]":((. I hope a T-Rex [b]eats me before I'm ordered to look at a single line of Cobol code X| X| , which usually spans over several lines of text: how could I ever forget that code had to start at column 8 and end at column 72:mad: (perfect for printing code destroying Amazonic rain forest)?
Marco Turrini
This is a little off-topic (remember our unemployed pall?) but thankfully I never touched COBOL, but I have an idea that the COBOL language architect(s) was way too lame identifying code sections by the column they were written on... :wtf: I don't want to be misunderstood here, COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)... way ahead of anything done 'till then. Still way too lame for me pick it from the shelf on my own ;P and one of the things on the top to be vanished from the face (and underneath :doh:) of the earth X|
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If it makes you feel any better, the wood used to make paper is farmed, not harvested from old growth.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
dan neely wrote:
the wood used to make paper is farmed, not harvested from old growth
Ehm, I knew that, but this sounds much less dramatic:)
dan neely wrote:
You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed"
As a VB Coder I feel myself offended :mad:. I'm joking, of course, but I actually have many fellows who have never written a program without a keyboard (a few of them can't believe you can program without a MOUSE!): it's a matter of people's age, I think, not of people's programming language. Hey, just a moment: do you mean I'm sooooo old?:~ Damn, I'm too old to forget Cobol punched cards, too young to retire:((
Marco Turrini
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my department is being boxed and shipped to another city i have no future. X|
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
For now on, try to get to customers also. A developer that can talk to customers (well) can handle himself better. Even in your situation you could always give the kick on the company and get to talk directly to their customers. It may not be ethical but what they've done to you isn't quite good either. There's a market with customers, usually wins who talks better and can deliver the minimum in less time. Mistaken are who thinks that best designed software win projects and customers sympathy, it should be but it isn't. Finding the middle is the key... and again... talk to customers, "sell" yourself.
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dan neely wrote:
the wood used to make paper is farmed, not harvested from old growth
Ehm, I knew that, but this sounds much less dramatic:)
dan neely wrote:
You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed"
As a VB Coder I feel myself offended :mad:. I'm joking, of course, but I actually have many fellows who have never written a program without a keyboard (a few of them can't believe you can program without a MOUSE!): it's a matter of people's age, I think, not of people's programming language. Hey, just a moment: do you mean I'm sooooo old?:~ Damn, I'm too old to forget Cobol punched cards, too young to retire:((
Marco Turrini
Marco Turrini wrote:
but I actually have many fellows who have never written a program without a keyboard (a few of them can't believe you can program without a MOUSE!): it's a matter of people's age, I think, not of people's programming language. Hey, just a moment: do you mean I'm sooooo old?
One of the final projects for my college electronics class was a breadboard 68000 series computer. Programming would've been done via toggling machine code into memory one byte at a time. It would've been an interesting project, but having to rip it apart after finals week so the next class could use all the hardware basically killed it for me. Display was via an oscilloscope so just buying the parts to keep it wasn't an option. I took that class back in 2002(?), so it's still possible to learn retro programming techniques today.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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This is a little off-topic (remember our unemployed pall?) but thankfully I never touched COBOL, but I have an idea that the COBOL language architect(s) was way too lame identifying code sections by the column they were written on... :wtf: I don't want to be misunderstood here, COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)... way ahead of anything done 'till then. Still way too lame for me pick it from the shelf on my own ;P and one of the things on the top to be vanished from the face (and underneath :doh:) of the earth X|
AlexCode wrote:
and one of the things on the top to be vanished from the face (and underneath ) of the earth
sadly crufty legacy code is essentially immortal due to the expenses needed to reverse engineer complex and undocumented systems.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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jgasm : First of all, my best wishes to find a new (and better job).I lived your experience three years ago, and I understand how you feel. But now I'm even happier, since I actually found a better job, hope you'll find too. Fernando A. Gomez F. : As far as VB6 goes, I almost agree with you, but... have you ever programmed in Cobol? No? You lucky man! After having used Cobol for more than two years X| , VB6 looked like a fresh breeze to me.
Marco Turrini
:wtf: Thanks to the gods there is C++...
Hope is the negation of reality - Raistlin Majere
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my department is being boxed and shipped to another city i have no future. X|
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
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This is a little off-topic (remember our unemployed pall?) but thankfully I never touched COBOL, but I have an idea that the COBOL language architect(s) was way too lame identifying code sections by the column they were written on... :wtf: I don't want to be misunderstood here, COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)... way ahead of anything done 'till then. Still way too lame for me pick it from the shelf on my own ;P and one of the things on the top to be vanished from the face (and underneath :doh:) of the earth X|
AlexCode wrote:
COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)
Grace Murray Hopper: someone told that Cobol was so verbose because a woman invented it! To be honest, Cobol has done a great job, back in the hard times; still, I sometimes always dream of a Cobol-free world, but I know I'll never see that day. At least, I would be happy if the Cobol-legacy (way of thinking) got out of the way (I could start another thread: how many people do you know write program with an Object-Oriented Language and a Procedural Mentality?, but I don't really want to)
AlexCode wrote:
remember our unemployed pall?
I don't mean to be rude, but... my first message was actually adressed to him... also. Er, yes, my other messages replied to the VB6 vs Cobol quotes, but I haven't forgotten. I do apologize if I offended someone, jgasm in first place, or looked like I didn't care: I didn't mean to.
Marco Turrini
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This is a little off-topic (remember our unemployed pall?) but thankfully I never touched COBOL, but I have an idea that the COBOL language architect(s) was way too lame identifying code sections by the column they were written on... :wtf: I don't want to be misunderstood here, COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)... way ahead of anything done 'till then. Still way too lame for me pick it from the shelf on my own ;P and one of the things on the top to be vanished from the face (and underneath :doh:) of the earth X|
AlexCode wrote:
to be vanished from the face ... of the earth
I heard that object oriented COBOL is coming. It's going to be called wait for it COBOL PLUS PLUS. Now I'm sorry I did that. I'm just sick about it. X|
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:wtf: Thanks to the gods there is C++...
Hope is the negation of reality - Raistlin Majere
C++? the language which made me cry because thatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName is different from ThatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName and ThatAbsurdVariablewithThatAbsurdName? ;P Ok, I admit that: - a REAL clever programmer chooses variables' names accordingly to some standard; usually thatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName is the private variable for the public property ThatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName: it wasn't the case I was crying on... - after two years of exposure to Cobol-rays, C++ is simply too much; I understood I needed some transition: I started with VB6 (2000), then went into VB.NET realm (2002), now I'm (slowly and carefully) studying C#... And I'm proud of the fact that I'm already able to read C++ source code and understand most of it!
Marco Turrini
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dan neely wrote:
the wood used to make paper is farmed, not harvested from old growth
Ehm, I knew that, but this sounds much less dramatic:)
dan neely wrote:
You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed"
As a VB Coder I feel myself offended :mad:. I'm joking, of course, but I actually have many fellows who have never written a program without a keyboard (a few of them can't believe you can program without a MOUSE!): it's a matter of people's age, I think, not of people's programming language. Hey, just a moment: do you mean I'm sooooo old?:~ Damn, I'm too old to forget Cobol punched cards, too young to retire:((
Marco Turrini
I remember BASIC in the days of teletype terminals with paper tape; I also remember taking courses in FORTRAN IV and COBOL where programs had to be submitted on keypunch cards. Quick Basic (VB's ancestor) made all that look like stone knives and bearskins. VB6 was immensely more powerful that Quick Basic. Knowledge of VB6 got me my current job, where I primarily program in VB.NET and C#.NET (and even a little C/C++ and Java). Nothing is wasted (except, maybe, some of those hours I spent studying Modula-2 way back when - that was when C was still struggling to become a "typed" language with the intial implementation of ANSI C with function prototyping). To the original poster of this thread: prepare for the worst (bankruptcy, homelessness, starvation) and hope for the best (your current employer's competitor opens a unit in your city and wants to speak to YOU). Remember that the decision to flip burgers rather than move is yours, and remember that flipping burgers is a sideline, not an alternate career choice. Good luck.
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C++? the language which made me cry because thatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName is different from ThatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName and ThatAbsurdVariablewithThatAbsurdName? ;P Ok, I admit that: - a REAL clever programmer chooses variables' names accordingly to some standard; usually thatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName is the private variable for the public property ThatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName: it wasn't the case I was crying on... - after two years of exposure to Cobol-rays, C++ is simply too much; I understood I needed some transition: I started with VB6 (2000), then went into VB.NET realm (2002), now I'm (slowly and carefully) studying C#... And I'm proud of the fact that I'm already able to read C++ source code and understand most of it!
Marco Turrini
Marco Turrini wrote:
VB6 (2000), then went into VB.NET realm (2002), now I'm (slowly and carefully) studying C#... And I'm proud of the fact that I'm already able to read C++ source code and understand most of it!
Now you know how Darth Vader felt when he turned away from the dark side and defeat the Emperor.
Hope is the negation of reality - Raistlin Majere
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AlexCode wrote:
to be vanished from the face ... of the earth
I heard that object oriented COBOL is coming. It's going to be called wait for it COBOL PLUS PLUS. Now I'm sorry I did that. I'm just sick about it. X|
There really is a cobol.net compiler out there somewhere. no idea on pricing or quality, but it's been mentioned here before.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
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There really is a cobol.net compiler out there somewhere. no idea on pricing or quality, but it's been mentioned here before.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
dan neely wrote:
Now we're getting somewhere! Hopelessly lost but making good time.
dan neely wrote:
no idea on pricing or quality
The price would be too high, no matter how good it is. Unless it comes with steak knives, or a hammer, or something people could actually use. ("Now how much would you pay?!") Yeah, I've seen it mentioned but I guess I hoped it was a just a joke. Almost as bad as the one I made earlier. BDF
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my department is being boxed and shipped to another city i have no future. X|
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
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AlexCode wrote:
to be vanished from the face ... of the earth
I heard that object oriented COBOL is coming. It's going to be called wait for it COBOL PLUS PLUS. Now I'm sorry I did that. I'm just sick about it. X|
How about Visual Cobol. Some vendor was giving out Visual COBOL CDs at the VSLive SF 2001 event. Mine is still floating around here somewhere. I even loaded it long enough to look at it. At the time I was working on a VB interface for an AS400. While I currently use VB 2005, I spent too many years doing too many really cool things with VB (3 through 6) to ever run it down. jgasm - You've got to keep up your spirits. I went through a downsizing 2 years ago. I know how depressing the idea of looking for work (at age 58) can be. Don't be shy about looking for work out of town. Tele-commuting is a very viable option these days.
Tom Garth Developer R. L. Nelson and Associates, Inc., Virginia