the end
-
This is a little off-topic (remember our unemployed pall?) but thankfully I never touched COBOL, but I have an idea that the COBOL language architect(s) was way too lame identifying code sections by the column they were written on... :wtf: I don't want to be misunderstood here, COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)... way ahead of anything done 'till then. Still way too lame for me pick it from the shelf on my own ;P and one of the things on the top to be vanished from the face (and underneath :doh:) of the earth X|
AlexCode wrote:
and one of the things on the top to be vanished from the face (and underneath ) of the earth
sadly crufty legacy code is essentially immortal due to the expenses needed to reverse engineer complex and undocumented systems.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
-
jgasm : First of all, my best wishes to find a new (and better job).I lived your experience three years ago, and I understand how you feel. But now I'm even happier, since I actually found a better job, hope you'll find too. Fernando A. Gomez F. : As far as VB6 goes, I almost agree with you, but... have you ever programmed in Cobol? No? You lucky man! After having used Cobol for more than two years X| , VB6 looked like a fresh breeze to me.
Marco Turrini
:wtf: Thanks to the gods there is C++...
Hope is the negation of reality - Raistlin Majere
-
my department is being boxed and shipped to another city i have no future. X|
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
-
This is a little off-topic (remember our unemployed pall?) but thankfully I never touched COBOL, but I have an idea that the COBOL language architect(s) was way too lame identifying code sections by the column they were written on... :wtf: I don't want to be misunderstood here, COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)... way ahead of anything done 'till then. Still way too lame for me pick it from the shelf on my own ;P and one of the things on the top to be vanished from the face (and underneath :doh:) of the earth X|
AlexCode wrote:
COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)
Grace Murray Hopper: someone told that Cobol was so verbose because a woman invented it! To be honest, Cobol has done a great job, back in the hard times; still, I sometimes always dream of a Cobol-free world, but I know I'll never see that day. At least, I would be happy if the Cobol-legacy (way of thinking) got out of the way (I could start another thread: how many people do you know write program with an Object-Oriented Language and a Procedural Mentality?, but I don't really want to)
AlexCode wrote:
remember our unemployed pall?
I don't mean to be rude, but... my first message was actually adressed to him... also. Er, yes, my other messages replied to the VB6 vs Cobol quotes, but I haven't forgotten. I do apologize if I offended someone, jgasm in first place, or looked like I didn't care: I didn't mean to.
Marco Turrini
-
This is a little off-topic (remember our unemployed pall?) but thankfully I never touched COBOL, but I have an idea that the COBOL language architect(s) was way too lame identifying code sections by the column they were written on... :wtf: I don't want to be misunderstood here, COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)... way ahead of anything done 'till then. Still way too lame for me pick it from the shelf on my own ;P and one of the things on the top to be vanished from the face (and underneath :doh:) of the earth X|
AlexCode wrote:
to be vanished from the face ... of the earth
I heard that object oriented COBOL is coming. It's going to be called wait for it COBOL PLUS PLUS. Now I'm sorry I did that. I'm just sick about it. X|
-
:wtf: Thanks to the gods there is C++...
Hope is the negation of reality - Raistlin Majere
C++? the language which made me cry because thatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName is different from ThatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName and ThatAbsurdVariablewithThatAbsurdName? ;P Ok, I admit that: - a REAL clever programmer chooses variables' names accordingly to some standard; usually thatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName is the private variable for the public property ThatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName: it wasn't the case I was crying on... - after two years of exposure to Cobol-rays, C++ is simply too much; I understood I needed some transition: I started with VB6 (2000), then went into VB.NET realm (2002), now I'm (slowly and carefully) studying C#... And I'm proud of the fact that I'm already able to read C++ source code and understand most of it!
Marco Turrini
-
dan neely wrote:
the wood used to make paper is farmed, not harvested from old growth
Ehm, I knew that, but this sounds much less dramatic:)
dan neely wrote:
You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed"
As a VB Coder I feel myself offended :mad:. I'm joking, of course, but I actually have many fellows who have never written a program without a keyboard (a few of them can't believe you can program without a MOUSE!): it's a matter of people's age, I think, not of people's programming language. Hey, just a moment: do you mean I'm sooooo old?:~ Damn, I'm too old to forget Cobol punched cards, too young to retire:((
Marco Turrini
I remember BASIC in the days of teletype terminals with paper tape; I also remember taking courses in FORTRAN IV and COBOL where programs had to be submitted on keypunch cards. Quick Basic (VB's ancestor) made all that look like stone knives and bearskins. VB6 was immensely more powerful that Quick Basic. Knowledge of VB6 got me my current job, where I primarily program in VB.NET and C#.NET (and even a little C/C++ and Java). Nothing is wasted (except, maybe, some of those hours I spent studying Modula-2 way back when - that was when C was still struggling to become a "typed" language with the intial implementation of ANSI C with function prototyping). To the original poster of this thread: prepare for the worst (bankruptcy, homelessness, starvation) and hope for the best (your current employer's competitor opens a unit in your city and wants to speak to YOU). Remember that the decision to flip burgers rather than move is yours, and remember that flipping burgers is a sideline, not an alternate career choice. Good luck.
-
C++? the language which made me cry because thatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName is different from ThatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName and ThatAbsurdVariablewithThatAbsurdName? ;P Ok, I admit that: - a REAL clever programmer chooses variables' names accordingly to some standard; usually thatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName is the private variable for the public property ThatAbsurdVariableWithThatAbsurdName: it wasn't the case I was crying on... - after two years of exposure to Cobol-rays, C++ is simply too much; I understood I needed some transition: I started with VB6 (2000), then went into VB.NET realm (2002), now I'm (slowly and carefully) studying C#... And I'm proud of the fact that I'm already able to read C++ source code and understand most of it!
Marco Turrini
Marco Turrini wrote:
VB6 (2000), then went into VB.NET realm (2002), now I'm (slowly and carefully) studying C#... And I'm proud of the fact that I'm already able to read C++ source code and understand most of it!
Now you know how Darth Vader felt when he turned away from the dark side and defeat the Emperor.
Hope is the negation of reality - Raistlin Majere
-
AlexCode wrote:
to be vanished from the face ... of the earth
I heard that object oriented COBOL is coming. It's going to be called wait for it COBOL PLUS PLUS. Now I'm sorry I did that. I'm just sick about it. X|
There really is a cobol.net compiler out there somewhere. no idea on pricing or quality, but it's been mentioned here before.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
-
There really is a cobol.net compiler out there somewhere. no idea on pricing or quality, but it's been mentioned here before.
-- You have to explain to them [VB coders] what you mean by "typed". their first response is likely to be something like, "Of course my code is typed. Do you think i magically project it onto the screen with the power of my mind?" --- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
dan neely wrote:
Now we're getting somewhere! Hopelessly lost but making good time.
dan neely wrote:
no idea on pricing or quality
The price would be too high, no matter how good it is. Unless it comes with steak knives, or a hammer, or something people could actually use. ("Now how much would you pay?!") Yeah, I've seen it mentioned but I guess I hoped it was a just a joke. Almost as bad as the one I made earlier. BDF
-
my department is being boxed and shipped to another city i have no future. X|
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
-
AlexCode wrote:
to be vanished from the face ... of the earth
I heard that object oriented COBOL is coming. It's going to be called wait for it COBOL PLUS PLUS. Now I'm sorry I did that. I'm just sick about it. X|
How about Visual Cobol. Some vendor was giving out Visual COBOL CDs at the VSLive SF 2001 event. Mine is still floating around here somewhere. I even loaded it long enough to look at it. At the time I was working on a VB interface for an AS400. While I currently use VB 2005, I spent too many years doing too many really cool things with VB (3 through 6) to ever run it down. jgasm - You've got to keep up your spirits. I went through a downsizing 2 years ago. I know how depressing the idea of looking for work (at age 58) can be. Don't be shy about looking for work out of town. Tele-commuting is a very viable option these days.
Tom Garth Developer R. L. Nelson and Associates, Inc., Virginia
-
How about Visual Cobol. Some vendor was giving out Visual COBOL CDs at the VSLive SF 2001 event. Mine is still floating around here somewhere. I even loaded it long enough to look at it. At the time I was working on a VB interface for an AS400. While I currently use VB 2005, I spent too many years doing too many really cool things with VB (3 through 6) to ever run it down. jgasm - You've got to keep up your spirits. I went through a downsizing 2 years ago. I know how depressing the idea of looking for work (at age 58) can be. Don't be shy about looking for work out of town. Tele-commuting is a very viable option these days.
Tom Garth Developer R. L. Nelson and Associates, Inc., Virginia
First and foremost:
TomGarth wrote:
jgasm - You've got to keep up your spirits.
What he said! I too have been through a similar situation. I had the best job in the world. Then one day, "Oh by the way, today's your last day." I knew they had no more work for me, but I didn't expect it quite that soon. Second, I hope you realize I wasn't "running down" VB. I actually took a class in VB.NET (paid for by the state, while I was unemployed as mentioned above.) The real reason I took it was to learn about VB6, but nobody seemed to be offering classes on it by then.
TomGarth wrote:
Visual COBOL CD ... floating around here somewhere
I hope it's the refrigerator so it doesn't start to stink up the place. :laugh:
-
First and foremost:
TomGarth wrote:
jgasm - You've got to keep up your spirits.
What he said! I too have been through a similar situation. I had the best job in the world. Then one day, "Oh by the way, today's your last day." I knew they had no more work for me, but I didn't expect it quite that soon. Second, I hope you realize I wasn't "running down" VB. I actually took a class in VB.NET (paid for by the state, while I was unemployed as mentioned above.) The real reason I took it was to learn about VB6, but nobody seemed to be offering classes on it by then.
TomGarth wrote:
Visual COBOL CD ... floating around here somewhere
I hope it's the refrigerator so it doesn't start to stink up the place. :laugh:
-
Well I believe it's because right now there are 2 headquarters and they are trying to make it into 1 headquarters. And since the other "headquarters" involved all of the vp's and ceo's...you get the idea ;)
----------------------------------------------------------- Completion Deadline: two days before the day after tomorrow
The better golf course, then?
-
AlexCode wrote:
COBOL is a 1950's language (27 years before I was born) and created by a mid 40's woman, that I don't remember the name (Grace I think)
Grace Murray Hopper: someone told that Cobol was so verbose because a woman invented it! To be honest, Cobol has done a great job, back in the hard times; still, I sometimes always dream of a Cobol-free world, but I know I'll never see that day. At least, I would be happy if the Cobol-legacy (way of thinking) got out of the way (I could start another thread: how many people do you know write program with an Object-Oriented Language and a Procedural Mentality?, but I don't really want to)
AlexCode wrote:
remember our unemployed pall?
I don't mean to be rude, but... my first message was actually adressed to him... also. Er, yes, my other messages replied to the VB6 vs Cobol quotes, but I haven't forgotten. I do apologize if I offended someone, jgasm in first place, or looked like I didn't care: I didn't mean to.
Marco Turrini
-
AlexCode wrote:
to be vanished from the face ... of the earth
I heard that object oriented COBOL is coming. It's going to be called wait for it COBOL PLUS PLUS. Now I'm sorry I did that. I'm just sick about it. X|
This is becoming a COBOL thread but here it goes: http://home.swbell.net/mck9/cobol/ooc/ooc.html Hurts my fingers to publish this link... X| You may also get nasty about this one (COBOL on .net): http://www.dotnetheaven.com/Articles/ArticleListing.aspx?SectionID=16 Shouldn't it be easier to learn a new good OO language instead of reinventing the wheel on some prehistoric concept? What should be worst: * Converting COBOL code to another language (I don't mean reverse engineer it, grab the business logic and recode the whole thing)? * Recompile it somehow (thinking that this OO version is somehow backwards compatible) with a OO facelift compiler but stay in the mud? I don't know... this seems like a very few group of people trying not to loose their jobs and keep earning too much money developing and patching restrictive, but most very important, software. I think this deserves a new thread...
-
This is becoming a COBOL thread but here it goes: http://home.swbell.net/mck9/cobol/ooc/ooc.html Hurts my fingers to publish this link... X| You may also get nasty about this one (COBOL on .net): http://www.dotnetheaven.com/Articles/ArticleListing.aspx?SectionID=16 Shouldn't it be easier to learn a new good OO language instead of reinventing the wheel on some prehistoric concept? What should be worst: * Converting COBOL code to another language (I don't mean reverse engineer it, grab the business logic and recode the whole thing)? * Recompile it somehow (thinking that this OO version is somehow backwards compatible) with a OO facelift compiler but stay in the mud? I don't know... this seems like a very few group of people trying not to loose their jobs and keep earning too much money developing and patching restrictive, but most very important, software. I think this deserves a new thread...
Thanks for the URLs. I looked at both of them. The first one was quite interesting. Much like rubbernecking at a car crash is interesting. I especially liked the little rhinoceros. Guess he couldn't find a brontosaurus.
AlexCode wrote:
You may also get nasty about this one
Far be it from me to get nasty. I'm allowed to call her Janet. :laugh:
AlexCode wrote:
Shouldn't it be easier to learn a new good OO language instead of reinventing the wheel on some prehistoric concept?
I think so too.
AlexCode wrote:
group of people trying not to loose their jobs and keep earning too much money developing and patching restrictive, but most very important, software.
I suppose they had to do something after saving the world from Y2K! BDF
-
J.O.B. (Just Over Broke) Scam alert! (Amway, Quixtar, Alticor - whatever they're calling it now). Tell Dex he can shove it where the sun don't shine. -CB
CodeBubba wrote:
Scam alert! (Amway, Quixtar, Alticor - whatever they're calling it now).
Hmm.... I don't know about those things. But, I do feel that a way about a job. But if you are happy chasing dollars, more power to you.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
-
CodeBubba wrote:
Scam alert! (Amway, Quixtar, Alticor - whatever they're calling it now).
Hmm.... I don't know about those things. But, I do feel that a way about a job. But if you are happy chasing dollars, more power to you.
My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
Hmm.... I don't know about those things. But, I do feel that a way about a job. But if you are happy chasing dollars, more power to you.
I'm not chasing dollars - the folks that make those J.O.B. quotes certainly are. Sorry if I misunderstood. That is a HEAVILY over-used phrase in those get-rich-quick schemes. If you feel that way about your job then you have the wrong job. -CB