IDEs and how they have evolved
-
While I am playing with VS2008, I got nostalgic and remembered my experience with IDEs. Not counting turbo pascal and turbo c++ (which I used in college), I started my career with VC 2.0 then had to move back to VC 1.52 (for some 16 bit work my company was doing) then moved back to VC 5.0 or the Developer Studio 5.0. At that time that was the best IDE for Java too. I did quite a bit of Java work on DevStudio 5.0. Then came Visual Studio 6.0 with VJ++ 6.0 which could not longer be used to develop pure Java apps. There was No JNI support and no swing support in it and it introduced new concepts like attributes, properties and delegates to Java. If you have not worked with VJ++ 6.0, then that's where all these basic CLR concepts were first introduced. Also there was this WFC (which was remarkably similar to Windows Forms). Guess who was in that team. At that time I could not find any decent Java IDE for pure Java work and moved totally to C++/ATL/COM world. Now when I look at IDEs for Java and compare them with Visual Studio. I must have to say that the IDEs are way ahead for programming work. I am not talking about drag and drop quick and dirty applications which are still best created in VS. But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
Co-Author ASP.NET AJAX in Action
-
While I am playing with VS2008, I got nostalgic and remembered my experience with IDEs. Not counting turbo pascal and turbo c++ (which I used in college), I started my career with VC 2.0 then had to move back to VC 1.52 (for some 16 bit work my company was doing) then moved back to VC 5.0 or the Developer Studio 5.0. At that time that was the best IDE for Java too. I did quite a bit of Java work on DevStudio 5.0. Then came Visual Studio 6.0 with VJ++ 6.0 which could not longer be used to develop pure Java apps. There was No JNI support and no swing support in it and it introduced new concepts like attributes, properties and delegates to Java. If you have not worked with VJ++ 6.0, then that's where all these basic CLR concepts were first introduced. Also there was this WFC (which was remarkably similar to Windows Forms). Guess who was in that team. At that time I could not find any decent Java IDE for pure Java work and moved totally to C++/ATL/COM world. Now when I look at IDEs for Java and compare them with Visual Studio. I must have to say that the IDEs are way ahead for programming work. I am not talking about drag and drop quick and dirty applications which are still best created in VS. But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
Co-Author ASP.NET AJAX in Action
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
turbo pascal and turbo c++
I remember those. Also used QuickPascal from Microsoft back in the day :->
"Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
-
While I am playing with VS2008, I got nostalgic and remembered my experience with IDEs. Not counting turbo pascal and turbo c++ (which I used in college), I started my career with VC 2.0 then had to move back to VC 1.52 (for some 16 bit work my company was doing) then moved back to VC 5.0 or the Developer Studio 5.0. At that time that was the best IDE for Java too. I did quite a bit of Java work on DevStudio 5.0. Then came Visual Studio 6.0 with VJ++ 6.0 which could not longer be used to develop pure Java apps. There was No JNI support and no swing support in it and it introduced new concepts like attributes, properties and delegates to Java. If you have not worked with VJ++ 6.0, then that's where all these basic CLR concepts were first introduced. Also there was this WFC (which was remarkably similar to Windows Forms). Guess who was in that team. At that time I could not find any decent Java IDE for pure Java work and moved totally to C++/ATL/COM world. Now when I look at IDEs for Java and compare them with Visual Studio. I must have to say that the IDEs are way ahead for programming work. I am not talking about drag and drop quick and dirty applications which are still best created in VS. But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
Co-Author ASP.NET AJAX in Action
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
...But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
You are probably referring to IntelliJ IDEA, right? I was simply blown away when I saw what it can do.:omg: I wish they will consider doing a C# counterpart...
-
While I am playing with VS2008, I got nostalgic and remembered my experience with IDEs. Not counting turbo pascal and turbo c++ (which I used in college), I started my career with VC 2.0 then had to move back to VC 1.52 (for some 16 bit work my company was doing) then moved back to VC 5.0 or the Developer Studio 5.0. At that time that was the best IDE for Java too. I did quite a bit of Java work on DevStudio 5.0. Then came Visual Studio 6.0 with VJ++ 6.0 which could not longer be used to develop pure Java apps. There was No JNI support and no swing support in it and it introduced new concepts like attributes, properties and delegates to Java. If you have not worked with VJ++ 6.0, then that's where all these basic CLR concepts were first introduced. Also there was this WFC (which was remarkably similar to Windows Forms). Guess who was in that team. At that time I could not find any decent Java IDE for pure Java work and moved totally to C++/ATL/COM world. Now when I look at IDEs for Java and compare them with Visual Studio. I must have to say that the IDEs are way ahead for programming work. I am not talking about drag and drop quick and dirty applications which are still best created in VS. But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
Co-Author ASP.NET AJAX in Action
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Now when I look at IDEs for Java and compare them with Visual Studio. I must have to say that the IDEs are way ahead for programming work. I am not talking about drag and drop quick and dirty applications which are still best created in VS. But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
There are some addins that do a more extensive refactoring job. However those addins are quite expensive. I think Microsoft left the refactoring over to other manufacturers, I really hope they add some more of this in the near future, I'm not going to pay for an expensive addin.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction? "What? Its an Apple MacBook Pro. They are sexy!" - Paul Watson My blog
-
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
...But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
You are probably referring to IntelliJ IDEA, right? I was simply blown away when I saw what it can do.:omg: I wish they will consider doing a C# counterpart...
They have, it's called ReSharper, from the same company, that works as an addin for Visual Studio. They don't have full C# 3.0 support yet but it should come when VS2008 is released.
-
While I am playing with VS2008, I got nostalgic and remembered my experience with IDEs. Not counting turbo pascal and turbo c++ (which I used in college), I started my career with VC 2.0 then had to move back to VC 1.52 (for some 16 bit work my company was doing) then moved back to VC 5.0 or the Developer Studio 5.0. At that time that was the best IDE for Java too. I did quite a bit of Java work on DevStudio 5.0. Then came Visual Studio 6.0 with VJ++ 6.0 which could not longer be used to develop pure Java apps. There was No JNI support and no swing support in it and it introduced new concepts like attributes, properties and delegates to Java. If you have not worked with VJ++ 6.0, then that's where all these basic CLR concepts were first introduced. Also there was this WFC (which was remarkably similar to Windows Forms). Guess who was in that team. At that time I could not find any decent Java IDE for pure Java work and moved totally to C++/ATL/COM world. Now when I look at IDEs for Java and compare them with Visual Studio. I must have to say that the IDEs are way ahead for programming work. I am not talking about drag and drop quick and dirty applications which are still best created in VS. But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
Co-Author ASP.NET AJAX in Action
What to expect from MS? They will never do good-work and will never move perfect product in release... just because MS don't want to loose money on future versions :-) I don't believe that MS cannot create perfect IDE with all features, customizable and flexible... They just don't want to do that... Same with OSes...
------------------------------------------------------------ Want to be happy - do what you like!
-
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Now when I look at IDEs for Java and compare them with Visual Studio. I must have to say that the IDEs are way ahead for programming work. I am not talking about drag and drop quick and dirty applications which are still best created in VS. But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
There are some addins that do a more extensive refactoring job. However those addins are quite expensive. I think Microsoft left the refactoring over to other manufacturers, I really hope they add some more of this in the near future, I'm not going to pay for an expensive addin.
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction? "What? Its an Apple MacBook Pro. They are sexy!" - Paul Watson My blog
WillemM wrote:
I'm not going to pay for an expensive addin.
You have to consider that your time is expensive too. (That being said, you probably did consider that and came to conclusion that money invested > time saved , just saying...)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
While I am playing with VS2008, I got nostalgic and remembered my experience with IDEs. Not counting turbo pascal and turbo c++ (which I used in college), I started my career with VC 2.0 then had to move back to VC 1.52 (for some 16 bit work my company was doing) then moved back to VC 5.0 or the Developer Studio 5.0. At that time that was the best IDE for Java too. I did quite a bit of Java work on DevStudio 5.0. Then came Visual Studio 6.0 with VJ++ 6.0 which could not longer be used to develop pure Java apps. There was No JNI support and no swing support in it and it introduced new concepts like attributes, properties and delegates to Java. If you have not worked with VJ++ 6.0, then that's where all these basic CLR concepts were first introduced. Also there was this WFC (which was remarkably similar to Windows Forms). Guess who was in that team. At that time I could not find any decent Java IDE for pure Java work and moved totally to C++/ATL/COM world. Now when I look at IDEs for Java and compare them with Visual Studio. I must have to say that the IDEs are way ahead for programming work. I am not talking about drag and drop quick and dirty applications which are still best created in VS. But coding/refactoring wise Java IDEs are way too ahead and I was quite disappointed to see no such improvement in that area in VS 2008 Beta 2.
Co-Author ASP.NET AJAX in Action
-
Bring back the Programmers Workbench (for those who can remember that far back).
If you're struggling developing software, then I'd recommend gardening.
I remember that well - and before that ME (Microsoft Editor) which I seem to remember shipped with MicroSoft C5.0 - the first version of 'C' I used - before that I actually had the pleasure (of sorts) of working with BCPL on CP/M machines. ME was somewhere beyond an editor and not quite an IDE.
Melbourne. Australia.
-
Bring back the Programmers Workbench (for those who can remember that far back).
If you're struggling developing software, then I'd recommend gardening.
Gimme Edlin or Gimme death well, ok, not much difference there...:laugh: