Microsoft Vista.. really worth it?
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I agree with you on that, but what does that have to do with premise that some systems should not be subject to this process? In case you forgot we were talking about the genuine software verification process being a problem for legitimate copies. And as far as testing goes I think they probably have the best or at least can afford to have the best. I wonder how many times a linux box has been down due to having its copy de-legitamized... oh thats right they don't do that. I'm just kidding.. I don't even own a copy of linux. But I love a good argement that brings problems to the surface and helps bring attention to a shared passion.:-D
WhiteSpy wrote:
I agree with you on that, but what does that have to do with premise that some systems should not be subject to this process? In case you forgot we were talking about the genuine software verification process being a problem for legitimate copies.
but you are setting situations that have already been handled. Medical hardware may be monitored by windows, linux or other PCs, but they are not operated by. This is where you have custom programmed boxes, embedded controllers, or even Windows CE as an embedded OS (though that scares me at times). Gone are the days that I need to write my own embedded controller, I hope, but I've done it... for military and medical uses. So you are inventing a problem to prove your argument. There will be a custom version for the military to run on darknets, I am sure. But until that happens, the military will not allow Vista. And the military may never allow Vista, not due to the holes (once those are fixed it could be used), but because of lack of holes. Some things are not allowed to be kept from some people, MS made no exceptions for "you are allowed to see this traffic" and a few people have not apprecated that. So again, a non-problem. As far as the linux issue, as joking as you were. I hear it regularly. We shouldn't use Vista or XP because they are not as stable as Linux, in the next breath he will tell me how he can't finish a compile because the computer resets at least 3-6 times a day, and he traced it back to one of the 400+ outstanding bugs in the kernel (the kernel mind you, nothing else). Yup, go linux stability! :rolleyes: I think by that measure, Vista is doing pretty darn good! each side picks and chooses the arguments to make themselves and their argument look right, and ignore evidence to the contrary. Or you set up a fictional scenario that hasn't happened to prove that you are right. In the end it is all just opinion. My opinion, and that is all it is complete with appropriate face value, is we are going through the same growth pains of XP. Service Pack 2 actually locked up and corrupted many machines, but anyone usng XP now has forgotten that little incident and continues to say XP is the best. It just "is," so is Linux, so is Vista. There is no best, or worst, there is best for your work, best for my work, best for your customer's work, and all those change over time. Time is another issue, because looking forward, I don't see XP. Vista may not be around, and Linux "may" be
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[Message Deleted]
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WhiteSpy wrote:
I agree with you on that, but what does that have to do with premise that some systems should not be subject to this process? In case you forgot we were talking about the genuine software verification process being a problem for legitimate copies.
but you are setting situations that have already been handled. Medical hardware may be monitored by windows, linux or other PCs, but they are not operated by. This is where you have custom programmed boxes, embedded controllers, or even Windows CE as an embedded OS (though that scares me at times). Gone are the days that I need to write my own embedded controller, I hope, but I've done it... for military and medical uses. So you are inventing a problem to prove your argument. There will be a custom version for the military to run on darknets, I am sure. But until that happens, the military will not allow Vista. And the military may never allow Vista, not due to the holes (once those are fixed it could be used), but because of lack of holes. Some things are not allowed to be kept from some people, MS made no exceptions for "you are allowed to see this traffic" and a few people have not apprecated that. So again, a non-problem. As far as the linux issue, as joking as you were. I hear it regularly. We shouldn't use Vista or XP because they are not as stable as Linux, in the next breath he will tell me how he can't finish a compile because the computer resets at least 3-6 times a day, and he traced it back to one of the 400+ outstanding bugs in the kernel (the kernel mind you, nothing else). Yup, go linux stability! :rolleyes: I think by that measure, Vista is doing pretty darn good! each side picks and chooses the arguments to make themselves and their argument look right, and ignore evidence to the contrary. Or you set up a fictional scenario that hasn't happened to prove that you are right. In the end it is all just opinion. My opinion, and that is all it is complete with appropriate face value, is we are going through the same growth pains of XP. Service Pack 2 actually locked up and corrupted many machines, but anyone usng XP now has forgotten that little incident and continues to say XP is the best. It just "is," so is Linux, so is Vista. There is no best, or worst, there is best for your work, best for my work, best for your customer's work, and all those change over time. Time is another issue, because looking forward, I don't see XP. Vista may not be around, and Linux "may" be
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Here we have another indication that Microsoft is more worried about lost revenue than customer service. I don't believe we'll be doing a switch to vista on the bulk of our machines here. We will have to have a copy or two for development and testing but this is really begining to get on my wick! First they develop WGA, which by the way worried us to death installing it's self over and over and over and... you get it. Then their bloody server had a problem and invalidated legitimate customers. http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9032798 Now we have a new problem to worry about. Come in a your screen goes black. Then you have to figure out that MS killed your copy. http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=printArticleBasic&articleId=9035478 I see a real danger here that they will progress this to the point that they just format the harddrive for you. And all because of a screw up on their part. Am I alone here or is anyone else feeling my pain?
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WhiteSpy wrote:
My issues is that I think that at least in the case of mission critical machines (military/ medical/ emergency) microsoft should make some method that they can not be shut down accidentally by this process.
For military boxes they'll have to go a step farther. Anything on a classified network WILL NOT HAVE INTERNET ACCESS, so they'll have to provide a way to support non networked machines or the DoD will not be able to update past XP.
-- If you view money as inherently evil, I view it as my duty to assist in making you more virtuous.
dan neely wrote:
For military boxes they'll have to go a step farther. Anything on a classified network WILL NOT HAVE INTERNET ACCESS, so they'll have to provide a way to support non networked machines or the DoD will not be able to update past XP.
You know I knew that from working with the 101st. But Back then we still installed the latest Windows OS and left it to the Army. But this was back on Windows NT 4.
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WOW... Thanks Steve. Now this is what networking is about. Rumor.. in the news. Anger in the masses.. Then denial by the suspect.. then a sea of calm. Hey, is that a shark under there?:) I hope this is correct. Maybe MS let this leak to see if anyone would get pissed. Ding, Ding, Ding.. Tell them what they didn't win Johnny!:laugh:
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dan neely wrote:
For military boxes they'll have to go a step farther. Anything on a classified network WILL NOT HAVE INTERNET ACCESS, so they'll have to provide a way to support non networked machines or the DoD will not be able to update past XP.
You know I knew that from working with the 101st. But Back then we still installed the latest Windows OS and left it to the Army. But this was back on Windows NT 4.
WhiteSpy wrote:
But Back then we still installed the latest Windows OS and left it to the Army
Now there are check lists, and approved disks, and validations, and inspections, and manditory reformatting and reinstallation under certain conditions. Ghost images of working systems, etc. The OS is a part, you use the approved part on the approved equipment, at the approved time, by the approved person. And even he gets checked by an approved inspector. etc.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Point taken. But without the sqeaky wheels like us they would never apply the grease needed to make it all run smoothly. :laugh:
WhiteSpy wrote:
But without the sqeaky wheels like us they would never apply the grease needed to make it all run smoothly.
laugh and joke with your friends here, but the squeaking works best if you aim it at the drivers. :-D I have managed to help (help mind you) nudge a few businesses. Of course one of those won't invite me back since I led a revolution of their customers. They ended up changing, but they don't invite the squeaky wheel back. Hey, their loss, I gave them lots of free advice and ideas in each of my trips to visit. Cutting contact with the squeaky wheel hurts both sides. :) Microsoft can be pushed, within limits, to do something. They have attempted to kill OpenGL several times, Vista was the latest. They backed off. In fact some the issues with Vista can be traced to that decision to allow OpenGL into the system. And any of the problems traced to that, could be, in part, blamed on me. I played a single role, though I pushed with all the weight of every contract I worked on and every customer I supported, medical, military, and others. I made myself look a little more imposing than I should of, but it wasn't just me, it was the number, and the combined weight. MS changed, Vista changed, the hardware vendors changed. It can be done, but no one from MS lives in the lounge currently :suss: or do they.....
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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WOW... Thanks Steve. Now this is what networking is about. Rumor.. in the news. Anger in the masses.. Then denial by the suspect.. then a sea of calm. Hey, is that a shark under there?:) I hope this is correct. Maybe MS let this leak to see if anyone would get pissed. Ding, Ding, Ding.. Tell them what they didn't win Johnny!:laugh:
WhiteSpy wrote:
Hey, is that a shark under there?
[Scene: A New York apartment. Someone knocks on the door.] Woman: [not opening the door] Yes? Voice: (mumbling) Mrs. Arlsburgerhhh? Woman: What? Voice: (mumbling) Mrs. Johannesburrrr? Woman: Who is it? Voice: [pause] Flowers. Woman: Flowers for whom? Voice: [long pause] Plumber, ma'am. Woman: I don't need a plumber. You're that clever shark, aren't you? Voice: [pause] Candygram. Woman: Candygram, my foot. Get out of here before I call the police. You're the shark, and you know it. Voice: I'm only a dolphin, ma'am. Woman: A dolphin? Well...okay. [opens door]
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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WhiteSpy wrote:
Hey, is that a shark under there?
[Scene: A New York apartment. Someone knocks on the door.] Woman: [not opening the door] Yes? Voice: (mumbling) Mrs. Arlsburgerhhh? Woman: What? Voice: (mumbling) Mrs. Johannesburrrr? Woman: Who is it? Voice: [pause] Flowers. Woman: Flowers for whom? Voice: [long pause] Plumber, ma'am. Woman: I don't need a plumber. You're that clever shark, aren't you? Voice: [pause] Candygram. Woman: Candygram, my foot. Get out of here before I call the police. You're the shark, and you know it. Voice: I'm only a dolphin, ma'am. Woman: A dolphin? Well...okay. [opens door]
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I've whined enough about Vista but this has to be put in perspective: it was a case of human error. Pre-production code was sent to production servers and things were a little screwed up. And this wasn't a bug - this was a single person who clearly only had 5 of his seven double espressos that afternoon and who goofed up and put the wrong code on the servers. Yes, it's a pain in the bum but this can happen to any company, anywhere, anytime. What would have happened if someone posted the wrong code for a critical update to windows and 12,000 machines temporarily had issues which self-corrected 12 hours later? Everyone would have gone "silly muppets" and then bagged Windows and Microsoft. This isn't a WGA issue. This is a process issue. It just happened that it affected WGA and validation but could have easily affected something else with the same result.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Don't you ever tire of being the ultimate MS fanboy? Isn't it just possible that everything Microsoft does isn't always 100% perfect? Sheeesh!
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Don't you ever tire of being the ultimate MS fanboy?
Hey now... I thought I had that tag, not sure I like sharing :-D
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