Chris: No more Anonymous Posting!
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Chris, Take a look at this slander crap that's going on in the following article: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/slickskins.asp Look at all that garbage posting berating this guy. It certainly would make me think twice about posting anything. Most of those wouldn't have the gall to say things like that if they had to sign it with their name. Please put a stop to this. How old are we anyway?!?!
Wow, I love all the discussion. I'm glad people have an opinion on this whatever it is. Here's my list of points to make/possibilities: 1) You are certainly correct about people setting up temporary accounts for flaming. However, in my opinion, stopping Anonymous posters would cut the posts in half or maybe much, much, more. Often times some other lamers read a flame and jump in. I seriously doubt that the majority of people would go through the bother of setting up the account just to jump in which would likely seriously limit the "conversation" bringing it to an end all that much faster. 2) I think an author should have the right to remove comments or be able to at least request it. I usually go through the majority of the postings under any article to see what people think of the code and what possible bug fixes people have found that hasn't yet been incorporated by the author. I would prefer to not have to waste my time wading through a flame war. 3) Track the number of comments by a user. This is done on Quake3World's website and gives more priviledges to people that post more. I like that. 4) Tieing in with 3, allow users to rate responses. If enough "Remove this post" type requests are made, then remove the user's account. This means that sure, a user can recreate a new account, but they start back at the bottom as a "newbie" or some such nonsense. 5) I realize you can't block by IP since a large number of people still deal with dial up connections and even those with permanent connections like DSL or cable get assigned new IP addresses at bootup. Typically within a company's LAN this would be ok since probably DHCP just gives back the same IP each time but for everyone else this isn't practical. However, blocking by email address is a possibility. Sure, there's tons of freemail accounts, but then it's still a punishment and the user has to go through the trouble of setting up an account and starting over. Plus, if they are serious about use of the site, they lose access to it through their primary email address which would be a major pain. Just some thoughts. Thanks! Matt Philmon mphilmon@pobox.com
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any way you can do an "ignore anonymous" option? on slashdot, i keep my threshold high enough so that i never have to see any anonymous postings. b.w.t. if any of you think the anonymous people are out of control here, take a look a slashdot (with a low threshold set, of course). -c
That's a GREAT idea. Chris, could there be a user setting to not even SHOW anonymous postings?! I'd love that. That would really help (IMHO). Matt Philmon:) :) ;) :)
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Comparing IP addresses isn't an exact science, since many people don't have fixed IP addresses. cheers, Chris Maunder
Also, keep in mind that die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge. The more schemes you put in place, the harder it will be to flame, and the more "pride" they'll get from doing it.
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Wow, I love all the discussion. I'm glad people have an opinion on this whatever it is. Here's my list of points to make/possibilities: 1) You are certainly correct about people setting up temporary accounts for flaming. However, in my opinion, stopping Anonymous posters would cut the posts in half or maybe much, much, more. Often times some other lamers read a flame and jump in. I seriously doubt that the majority of people would go through the bother of setting up the account just to jump in which would likely seriously limit the "conversation" bringing it to an end all that much faster. 2) I think an author should have the right to remove comments or be able to at least request it. I usually go through the majority of the postings under any article to see what people think of the code and what possible bug fixes people have found that hasn't yet been incorporated by the author. I would prefer to not have to waste my time wading through a flame war. 3) Track the number of comments by a user. This is done on Quake3World's website and gives more priviledges to people that post more. I like that. 4) Tieing in with 3, allow users to rate responses. If enough "Remove this post" type requests are made, then remove the user's account. This means that sure, a user can recreate a new account, but they start back at the bottom as a "newbie" or some such nonsense. 5) I realize you can't block by IP since a large number of people still deal with dial up connections and even those with permanent connections like DSL or cable get assigned new IP addresses at bootup. Typically within a company's LAN this would be ok since probably DHCP just gives back the same IP each time but for everyone else this isn't practical. However, blocking by email address is a possibility. Sure, there's tons of freemail accounts, but then it's still a punishment and the user has to go through the trouble of setting up an account and starting over. Plus, if they are serious about use of the site, they lose access to it through their primary email address which would be a major pain. Just some thoughts. Thanks! Matt Philmon mphilmon@pobox.com
Here's a rough outline of how slashdot does it: 1. if you don't sign-in or don't have an account, you aren't just "anonymous" you are an "anonymous coward". :) 2. every few weeks, you are given a chance to moderate. you moderate by picking a message and ranking it on a list of 10 or so levels ("insightful", "off topic", "flamebait", "interesting", etc). you generally get 4 moderation points at a time. 3. if you moderate a topic, you can't post in that topic - thus you can't moderate your own posts. 4. as a result of moderation, every post has a ranking, from -1 to 5. when you browse, you determine the lowest ranking of posts you wish to see. i always browse at "1" 5. anonymous cowards post at -1, though their posts can be moderated up. because i browse at "1", i never see anonymous postings. 6. when you browse a topic that has been recently created, you see the full text of all posts. as the number of posts goes up, only high ranked posts are shown in full, lower ranked posts are shown as links (as all posts are on codeproject). this way, when you browse a topic with hundreds of postings, you see the full text of the highest ranked posts immediately. -c
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You mean a moderated forum? Maybe unmoderated discussions on CodeProject, and a moderated lounge. This would keep the board free of off-topic and offensive posts, and spam, but still allow lively discussions. cheers, Chris Maunder
I don't think it is worth doing anything to prevent flamers. Most of us are regulars here anyway, and if a 'newbie' starts a flame war against one of us we should all just ignore them. It's like the 'ignore the bully and he will go away' - it does work, and it still allows us the freedom to make anonymous posts (all of us need to do it at some point). Keep the system how it is. Don't let the lamers win - as it has been said in this thread, it wont stop them anyway. Cheers, The original 'Anonymous' User
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I don't think it is worth doing anything to prevent flamers. Most of us are regulars here anyway, and if a 'newbie' starts a flame war against one of us we should all just ignore them. It's like the 'ignore the bully and he will go away' - it does work, and it still allows us the freedom to make anonymous posts (all of us need to do it at some point). Keep the system how it is. Don't let the lamers win - as it has been said in this thread, it wont stop them anyway. Cheers, The original 'Anonymous' User
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Chris, how about making a note of the IP Adddess of people who flame and the next time they try and a flame to a thread, look up their IP address in the list of 'Banned' IP addresses, then prevent them form posting.
Banning IP's wont acomplish anything other than banning legitimate users: When I connect to the internet I am assigned a random IP by my ISP. Banning that IP would mean nothing, all i'd have to do is reconnect. You could banne the root of the IP (i.e. XXX.XXX.XXX) but then any other users connecting through my ISP would also be banned. It is a system that online games use a lot, and more then once i have been banned just for using my ISP :mad:.
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Here's a rough outline of how slashdot does it: 1. if you don't sign-in or don't have an account, you aren't just "anonymous" you are an "anonymous coward". :) 2. every few weeks, you are given a chance to moderate. you moderate by picking a message and ranking it on a list of 10 or so levels ("insightful", "off topic", "flamebait", "interesting", etc). you generally get 4 moderation points at a time. 3. if you moderate a topic, you can't post in that topic - thus you can't moderate your own posts. 4. as a result of moderation, every post has a ranking, from -1 to 5. when you browse, you determine the lowest ranking of posts you wish to see. i always browse at "1" 5. anonymous cowards post at -1, though their posts can be moderated up. because i browse at "1", i never see anonymous postings. 6. when you browse a topic that has been recently created, you see the full text of all posts. as the number of posts goes up, only high ranked posts are shown in full, lower ranked posts are shown as links (as all posts are on codeproject). this way, when you browse a topic with hundreds of postings, you see the full text of the highest ranked posts immediately. -c
That works for Slashdot because they're moderating hundreds of comments on any given topic. I don't believe this will work on a message board where the topic changes so frequently and the number of responses is limited. As a side note, I find Slashdots moderation system somewhat amusing. If you post a comment that is in sync with the hivemind, it gets moderated up. If you post a comment that, say, criticises Linux, it gets moderated down.
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Wow, I love all the discussion. I'm glad people have an opinion on this whatever it is. Here's my list of points to make/possibilities: 1) You are certainly correct about people setting up temporary accounts for flaming. However, in my opinion, stopping Anonymous posters would cut the posts in half or maybe much, much, more. Often times some other lamers read a flame and jump in. I seriously doubt that the majority of people would go through the bother of setting up the account just to jump in which would likely seriously limit the "conversation" bringing it to an end all that much faster. 2) I think an author should have the right to remove comments or be able to at least request it. I usually go through the majority of the postings under any article to see what people think of the code and what possible bug fixes people have found that hasn't yet been incorporated by the author. I would prefer to not have to waste my time wading through a flame war. 3) Track the number of comments by a user. This is done on Quake3World's website and gives more priviledges to people that post more. I like that. 4) Tieing in with 3, allow users to rate responses. If enough "Remove this post" type requests are made, then remove the user's account. This means that sure, a user can recreate a new account, but they start back at the bottom as a "newbie" or some such nonsense. 5) I realize you can't block by IP since a large number of people still deal with dial up connections and even those with permanent connections like DSL or cable get assigned new IP addresses at bootup. Typically within a company's LAN this would be ok since probably DHCP just gives back the same IP each time but for everyone else this isn't practical. However, blocking by email address is a possibility. Sure, there's tons of freemail accounts, but then it's still a punishment and the user has to go through the trouble of setting up an account and starting over. Plus, if they are serious about use of the site, they lose access to it through their primary email address which would be a major pain. Just some thoughts. Thanks! Matt Philmon mphilmon@pobox.com
If you block based on IP address, you'll also take out all the people using proxies.
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Chris, Take a look at this slander crap that's going on in the following article: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/slickskins.asp Look at all that garbage posting berating this guy. It certainly would make me think twice about posting anything. Most of those wouldn't have the gall to say things like that if they had to sign it with their name. Please put a stop to this. How old are we anyway?!?!
Sites like slashdot deal with this using moderation. You can read all about Slashdot's moderation at http://www.slashdot.org/faq/index.shtml. Users are occasionally selected randomly to moderate messages by giving or taking points from them. Everybody (moderating or not) sets the minimum rating of messages they want to see, so flamebait, off-topic messages, etc. get "modded down" below the threshold that most people see. (New users and users who get modded down alot don't get to moderate). Oh yeah, anonymous posts start at 0, registered users start at 1. Codeproject could just convert to Slashcode (open source Perl scripts - just kidding) or implement the same features in whatever ASP code is used here.
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Sites like slashdot deal with this using moderation. You can read all about Slashdot's moderation at http://www.slashdot.org/faq/index.shtml. Users are occasionally selected randomly to moderate messages by giving or taking points from them. Everybody (moderating or not) sets the minimum rating of messages they want to see, so flamebait, off-topic messages, etc. get "modded down" below the threshold that most people see. (New users and users who get modded down alot don't get to moderate). Oh yeah, anonymous posts start at 0, registered users start at 1. Codeproject could just convert to Slashcode (open source Perl scripts - just kidding) or implement the same features in whatever ASP code is used here.
Oops. For example, my post would be modded down as redundant.
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Also, keep in mind that die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge. The more schemes you put in place, the harder it will be to flame, and the more "pride" they'll get from doing it.
die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge True! But won't this be listed in computer crimes! somewhere near Hacking! which is internationally agreed to be punished? It is then Punishable! Right? Considering the codeproject server based in Autralia, what are the law enforcements on such acts? Also the idea/suggestion of letting the Registered/Elligible users of Codeproject to vote for deletion of a flame thread/post is kinda possible. It just needs 15 of them including the Admin to mark for deletion, and its gone! Don't you already have the option to modify/delete a thread posted by registered users? it'd be the same sheme used here and simple I guess as long as it's already done! I mean look at Bill SerGio's page! One of them even spent a whole lot of time to fetch the universe for something as little as "You VB Programmers"?! Come on! How many people commit crimes these days and get away with it? What is that to be considered at all! They just want to hurt people and unfortunately it works sometimes? It'd be best for all if this is controlled, especially talking about the Codeproject Community! Which I personally swear is the best I've ever seen since it was started! Man I miss those clean days on Codeproject! Don't you Chris (Admin) and others? God Bless. Cheers! :)
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die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge True! But won't this be listed in computer crimes! somewhere near Hacking! which is internationally agreed to be punished? It is then Punishable! Right? Considering the codeproject server based in Autralia, what are the law enforcements on such acts? Also the idea/suggestion of letting the Registered/Elligible users of Codeproject to vote for deletion of a flame thread/post is kinda possible. It just needs 15 of them including the Admin to mark for deletion, and its gone! Don't you already have the option to modify/delete a thread posted by registered users? it'd be the same sheme used here and simple I guess as long as it's already done! I mean look at Bill SerGio's page! One of them even spent a whole lot of time to fetch the universe for something as little as "You VB Programmers"?! Come on! How many people commit crimes these days and get away with it? What is that to be considered at all! They just want to hurt people and unfortunately it works sometimes? It'd be best for all if this is controlled, especially talking about the Codeproject Community! Which I personally swear is the best I've ever seen since it was started! Man I miss those clean days on Codeproject! Don't you Chris (Admin) and others? God Bless. Cheers! :)
which is internationally agreed to be punished wooooo, aren't you going a bit off tap now? Anyway, to add my thoughts on this subject: Does it really bother people that much that someone says some flame? I mean really??? Yeah sure, it's not NICE, but I agree with the people who say ignore it and it will go away. Just like the old thread in respect to being a nerd, once I was happy within myself as to who I was, anyone at school who said shite - well it was just water off a ducks back. And that was as a teenager, from real people. If you can't ignore an anonymous poster then really I think some self worth classes need to be taken... And anyway, flame has always been fun to play with. I mean if we all went round not expressing opinions then the world would be a very boring place. And as I have said in a previous thread, some people are not confident enough to speak out if they are not anonymous (maybe they need the self worth classes as well, but anyway...) Once again I bring up the fact that being anonymous is the basis of the free world (ie. voting). Have fun, Paul Westcott.
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die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge True! But won't this be listed in computer crimes! somewhere near Hacking! which is internationally agreed to be punished? It is then Punishable! Right? Considering the codeproject server based in Autralia, what are the law enforcements on such acts? Also the idea/suggestion of letting the Registered/Elligible users of Codeproject to vote for deletion of a flame thread/post is kinda possible. It just needs 15 of them including the Admin to mark for deletion, and its gone! Don't you already have the option to modify/delete a thread posted by registered users? it'd be the same sheme used here and simple I guess as long as it's already done! I mean look at Bill SerGio's page! One of them even spent a whole lot of time to fetch the universe for something as little as "You VB Programmers"?! Come on! How many people commit crimes these days and get away with it? What is that to be considered at all! They just want to hurt people and unfortunately it works sometimes? It'd be best for all if this is controlled, especially talking about the Codeproject Community! Which I personally swear is the best I've ever seen since it was started! Man I miss those clean days on Codeproject! Don't you Chris (Admin) and others? God Bless. Cheers! :)
Relax Masoud :) Firstly, circumventing whatever procedures I put in place to stop anonymous postings is hardly going to qualify as a hanging offence. Besides - who would have the energy and resources to chase down a rogue Anonymous poster? I've thought about the whole rating system and it opens itself up to abuse as well. Someone can set up 15 aliases and then go around and kick off whatever posting they want. It just adds a new layer of complexity, and another piece that can be opened up to abuse. Why encourage people to try and get past my meager defenses? Besides, I'd rather spend my time planning CodeProject.NET so that we can all have a better time, than spend my time patching the discussion boards for the sake of a few noisy people hiding in the shadows. Let 'em have their 15 minutes. There are too many cool articles to read and fun stuff to be playing with to bother about them. cheers, Chris Maunder
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die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge True! But won't this be listed in computer crimes! somewhere near Hacking! which is internationally agreed to be punished? It is then Punishable! Right? Considering the codeproject server based in Autralia, what are the law enforcements on such acts? Also the idea/suggestion of letting the Registered/Elligible users of Codeproject to vote for deletion of a flame thread/post is kinda possible. It just needs 15 of them including the Admin to mark for deletion, and its gone! Don't you already have the option to modify/delete a thread posted by registered users? it'd be the same sheme used here and simple I guess as long as it's already done! I mean look at Bill SerGio's page! One of them even spent a whole lot of time to fetch the universe for something as little as "You VB Programmers"?! Come on! How many people commit crimes these days and get away with it? What is that to be considered at all! They just want to hurt people and unfortunately it works sometimes? It'd be best for all if this is controlled, especially talking about the Codeproject Community! Which I personally swear is the best I've ever seen since it was started! Man I miss those clean days on Codeproject! Don't you Chris (Admin) and others? God Bless. Cheers! :)
Creating an account with a bogus name isn't considered a crime.
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which is internationally agreed to be punished wooooo, aren't you going a bit off tap now? Anyway, to add my thoughts on this subject: Does it really bother people that much that someone says some flame? I mean really??? Yeah sure, it's not NICE, but I agree with the people who say ignore it and it will go away. Just like the old thread in respect to being a nerd, once I was happy within myself as to who I was, anyone at school who said shite - well it was just water off a ducks back. And that was as a teenager, from real people. If you can't ignore an anonymous poster then really I think some self worth classes need to be taken... And anyway, flame has always been fun to play with. I mean if we all went round not expressing opinions then the world would be a very boring place. And as I have said in a previous thread, some people are not confident enough to speak out if they are not anonymous (maybe they need the self worth classes as well, but anyway...) Once again I bring up the fact that being anonymous is the basis of the free world (ie. voting). Have fun, Paul Westcott.
And anyway, flame has always been fun to play with. I mean if we all went round not expressing opinions then the world would be a very boring place. But why would you like to have fun flaming someone which would hurt them?Mr. Paul Westcot! :confused: And why is it that you take this thread personal again? Like when you took it personal on another thread? Again I am :confused:? Cheers! :)
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Chris, Take a look at this slander crap that's going on in the following article: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/slickskins.asp Look at all that garbage posting berating this guy. It certainly would make me think twice about posting anything. Most of those wouldn't have the gall to say things like that if they had to sign it with their name. Please put a stop to this. How old are we anyway?!?!
I am a first time author who posted an article because I wanted to share what I thought was an interesting approach to creating skins. I worked hard on writing the code and was nervous that one of the many good coders that read these articles would find some bug or piece of bad code, but I wanted to discuss these concepts and get ideas about inproving my own code and other approaches. I posted my article waiting to get comments on my code and the concept with which I approached creating skins. I must admit that I was caught off-guard by a few people critizing stuff that was silly to me like the fact that I used a picture of myself as a skin, or that I like to goof around and give myself a "handle" or nickname. I am just a regular guy with a famly who earns his living as a programmer. And I happen to really enjoy programming and enjoy the more creative end of coding in areas like animation, skins, and video. I would point out that "skins" are about trying to have some fun with programming and expressing oneself visually. But I finally concluded that empty barrels make the most noise. I did re-write the article and change my code to strip it of anything that might generate anymore silly comments being posted because my goal was not to be controversial, but to just share some code with others who might find it interesting and learn in return from their ideas. Bill SerGio, A Tired Newbie Author
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I am a first time author who posted an article because I wanted to share what I thought was an interesting approach to creating skins. I worked hard on writing the code and was nervous that one of the many good coders that read these articles would find some bug or piece of bad code, but I wanted to discuss these concepts and get ideas about inproving my own code and other approaches. I posted my article waiting to get comments on my code and the concept with which I approached creating skins. I must admit that I was caught off-guard by a few people critizing stuff that was silly to me like the fact that I used a picture of myself as a skin, or that I like to goof around and give myself a "handle" or nickname. I am just a regular guy with a famly who earns his living as a programmer. And I happen to really enjoy programming and enjoy the more creative end of coding in areas like animation, skins, and video. I would point out that "skins" are about trying to have some fun with programming and expressing oneself visually. But I finally concluded that empty barrels make the most noise. I did re-write the article and change my code to strip it of anything that might generate anymore silly comments being posted because my goal was not to be controversial, but to just share some code with others who might find it interesting and learn in return from their ideas. Bill SerGio, A Tired Newbie Author
Personally I found the article very interesting. Thanks and thanks to all authors and contributors. Matt Philmon mphilmon@pobox.com:)
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You mean a moderated forum? Maybe unmoderated discussions on CodeProject, and a moderated lounge. This would keep the board free of off-topic and offensive posts, and spam, but still allow lively discussions. cheers, Chris Maunder
I think a slightly better approach would be to give well-known users the ability to "hold" a message for approval. Then you or someone you assign can look at them and determine if they are too incendiary for the system. Flaming isn't necessarily bad either, lots can be learned in many flame-wars ;)