Chris: No more Anonymous Posting!
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Wow, I love all the discussion. I'm glad people have an opinion on this whatever it is. Here's my list of points to make/possibilities: 1) You are certainly correct about people setting up temporary accounts for flaming. However, in my opinion, stopping Anonymous posters would cut the posts in half or maybe much, much, more. Often times some other lamers read a flame and jump in. I seriously doubt that the majority of people would go through the bother of setting up the account just to jump in which would likely seriously limit the "conversation" bringing it to an end all that much faster. 2) I think an author should have the right to remove comments or be able to at least request it. I usually go through the majority of the postings under any article to see what people think of the code and what possible bug fixes people have found that hasn't yet been incorporated by the author. I would prefer to not have to waste my time wading through a flame war. 3) Track the number of comments by a user. This is done on Quake3World's website and gives more priviledges to people that post more. I like that. 4) Tieing in with 3, allow users to rate responses. If enough "Remove this post" type requests are made, then remove the user's account. This means that sure, a user can recreate a new account, but they start back at the bottom as a "newbie" or some such nonsense. 5) I realize you can't block by IP since a large number of people still deal with dial up connections and even those with permanent connections like DSL or cable get assigned new IP addresses at bootup. Typically within a company's LAN this would be ok since probably DHCP just gives back the same IP each time but for everyone else this isn't practical. However, blocking by email address is a possibility. Sure, there's tons of freemail accounts, but then it's still a punishment and the user has to go through the trouble of setting up an account and starting over. Plus, if they are serious about use of the site, they lose access to it through their primary email address which would be a major pain. Just some thoughts. Thanks! Matt Philmon mphilmon@pobox.com
If you block based on IP address, you'll also take out all the people using proxies.
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Chris, Take a look at this slander crap that's going on in the following article: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/slickskins.asp Look at all that garbage posting berating this guy. It certainly would make me think twice about posting anything. Most of those wouldn't have the gall to say things like that if they had to sign it with their name. Please put a stop to this. How old are we anyway?!?!
Sites like slashdot deal with this using moderation. You can read all about Slashdot's moderation at http://www.slashdot.org/faq/index.shtml. Users are occasionally selected randomly to moderate messages by giving or taking points from them. Everybody (moderating or not) sets the minimum rating of messages they want to see, so flamebait, off-topic messages, etc. get "modded down" below the threshold that most people see. (New users and users who get modded down alot don't get to moderate). Oh yeah, anonymous posts start at 0, registered users start at 1. Codeproject could just convert to Slashcode (open source Perl scripts - just kidding) or implement the same features in whatever ASP code is used here.
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Sites like slashdot deal with this using moderation. You can read all about Slashdot's moderation at http://www.slashdot.org/faq/index.shtml. Users are occasionally selected randomly to moderate messages by giving or taking points from them. Everybody (moderating or not) sets the minimum rating of messages they want to see, so flamebait, off-topic messages, etc. get "modded down" below the threshold that most people see. (New users and users who get modded down alot don't get to moderate). Oh yeah, anonymous posts start at 0, registered users start at 1. Codeproject could just convert to Slashcode (open source Perl scripts - just kidding) or implement the same features in whatever ASP code is used here.
Oops. For example, my post would be modded down as redundant.
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Also, keep in mind that die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge. The more schemes you put in place, the harder it will be to flame, and the more "pride" they'll get from doing it.
die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge True! But won't this be listed in computer crimes! somewhere near Hacking! which is internationally agreed to be punished? It is then Punishable! Right? Considering the codeproject server based in Autralia, what are the law enforcements on such acts? Also the idea/suggestion of letting the Registered/Elligible users of Codeproject to vote for deletion of a flame thread/post is kinda possible. It just needs 15 of them including the Admin to mark for deletion, and its gone! Don't you already have the option to modify/delete a thread posted by registered users? it'd be the same sheme used here and simple I guess as long as it's already done! I mean look at Bill SerGio's page! One of them even spent a whole lot of time to fetch the universe for something as little as "You VB Programmers"?! Come on! How many people commit crimes these days and get away with it? What is that to be considered at all! They just want to hurt people and unfortunately it works sometimes? It'd be best for all if this is controlled, especially talking about the Codeproject Community! Which I personally swear is the best I've ever seen since it was started! Man I miss those clean days on Codeproject! Don't you Chris (Admin) and others? God Bless. Cheers! :)
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die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge True! But won't this be listed in computer crimes! somewhere near Hacking! which is internationally agreed to be punished? It is then Punishable! Right? Considering the codeproject server based in Autralia, what are the law enforcements on such acts? Also the idea/suggestion of letting the Registered/Elligible users of Codeproject to vote for deletion of a flame thread/post is kinda possible. It just needs 15 of them including the Admin to mark for deletion, and its gone! Don't you already have the option to modify/delete a thread posted by registered users? it'd be the same sheme used here and simple I guess as long as it's already done! I mean look at Bill SerGio's page! One of them even spent a whole lot of time to fetch the universe for something as little as "You VB Programmers"?! Come on! How many people commit crimes these days and get away with it? What is that to be considered at all! They just want to hurt people and unfortunately it works sometimes? It'd be best for all if this is controlled, especially talking about the Codeproject Community! Which I personally swear is the best I've ever seen since it was started! Man I miss those clean days on Codeproject! Don't you Chris (Admin) and others? God Bless. Cheers! :)
which is internationally agreed to be punished wooooo, aren't you going a bit off tap now? Anyway, to add my thoughts on this subject: Does it really bother people that much that someone says some flame? I mean really??? Yeah sure, it's not NICE, but I agree with the people who say ignore it and it will go away. Just like the old thread in respect to being a nerd, once I was happy within myself as to who I was, anyone at school who said shite - well it was just water off a ducks back. And that was as a teenager, from real people. If you can't ignore an anonymous poster then really I think some self worth classes need to be taken... And anyway, flame has always been fun to play with. I mean if we all went round not expressing opinions then the world would be a very boring place. And as I have said in a previous thread, some people are not confident enough to speak out if they are not anonymous (maybe they need the self worth classes as well, but anyway...) Once again I bring up the fact that being anonymous is the basis of the free world (ie. voting). Have fun, Paul Westcott.
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die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge True! But won't this be listed in computer crimes! somewhere near Hacking! which is internationally agreed to be punished? It is then Punishable! Right? Considering the codeproject server based in Autralia, what are the law enforcements on such acts? Also the idea/suggestion of letting the Registered/Elligible users of Codeproject to vote for deletion of a flame thread/post is kinda possible. It just needs 15 of them including the Admin to mark for deletion, and its gone! Don't you already have the option to modify/delete a thread posted by registered users? it'd be the same sheme used here and simple I guess as long as it's already done! I mean look at Bill SerGio's page! One of them even spent a whole lot of time to fetch the universe for something as little as "You VB Programmers"?! Come on! How many people commit crimes these days and get away with it? What is that to be considered at all! They just want to hurt people and unfortunately it works sometimes? It'd be best for all if this is controlled, especially talking about the Codeproject Community! Which I personally swear is the best I've ever seen since it was started! Man I miss those clean days on Codeproject! Don't you Chris (Admin) and others? God Bless. Cheers! :)
Relax Masoud :) Firstly, circumventing whatever procedures I put in place to stop anonymous postings is hardly going to qualify as a hanging offence. Besides - who would have the energy and resources to chase down a rogue Anonymous poster? I've thought about the whole rating system and it opens itself up to abuse as well. Someone can set up 15 aliases and then go around and kick off whatever posting they want. It just adds a new layer of complexity, and another piece that can be opened up to abuse. Why encourage people to try and get past my meager defenses? Besides, I'd rather spend my time planning CodeProject.NET so that we can all have a better time, than spend my time patching the discussion boards for the sake of a few noisy people hiding in the shadows. Let 'em have their 15 minutes. There are too many cool articles to read and fun stuff to be playing with to bother about them. cheers, Chris Maunder
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die hard flamers will consider prevention schemes to be a challenge True! But won't this be listed in computer crimes! somewhere near Hacking! which is internationally agreed to be punished? It is then Punishable! Right? Considering the codeproject server based in Autralia, what are the law enforcements on such acts? Also the idea/suggestion of letting the Registered/Elligible users of Codeproject to vote for deletion of a flame thread/post is kinda possible. It just needs 15 of them including the Admin to mark for deletion, and its gone! Don't you already have the option to modify/delete a thread posted by registered users? it'd be the same sheme used here and simple I guess as long as it's already done! I mean look at Bill SerGio's page! One of them even spent a whole lot of time to fetch the universe for something as little as "You VB Programmers"?! Come on! How many people commit crimes these days and get away with it? What is that to be considered at all! They just want to hurt people and unfortunately it works sometimes? It'd be best for all if this is controlled, especially talking about the Codeproject Community! Which I personally swear is the best I've ever seen since it was started! Man I miss those clean days on Codeproject! Don't you Chris (Admin) and others? God Bless. Cheers! :)
Creating an account with a bogus name isn't considered a crime.
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which is internationally agreed to be punished wooooo, aren't you going a bit off tap now? Anyway, to add my thoughts on this subject: Does it really bother people that much that someone says some flame? I mean really??? Yeah sure, it's not NICE, but I agree with the people who say ignore it and it will go away. Just like the old thread in respect to being a nerd, once I was happy within myself as to who I was, anyone at school who said shite - well it was just water off a ducks back. And that was as a teenager, from real people. If you can't ignore an anonymous poster then really I think some self worth classes need to be taken... And anyway, flame has always been fun to play with. I mean if we all went round not expressing opinions then the world would be a very boring place. And as I have said in a previous thread, some people are not confident enough to speak out if they are not anonymous (maybe they need the self worth classes as well, but anyway...) Once again I bring up the fact that being anonymous is the basis of the free world (ie. voting). Have fun, Paul Westcott.
And anyway, flame has always been fun to play with. I mean if we all went round not expressing opinions then the world would be a very boring place. But why would you like to have fun flaming someone which would hurt them?Mr. Paul Westcot! :confused: And why is it that you take this thread personal again? Like when you took it personal on another thread? Again I am :confused:? Cheers! :)
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Chris, Take a look at this slander crap that's going on in the following article: http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/slickskins.asp Look at all that garbage posting berating this guy. It certainly would make me think twice about posting anything. Most of those wouldn't have the gall to say things like that if they had to sign it with their name. Please put a stop to this. How old are we anyway?!?!
I am a first time author who posted an article because I wanted to share what I thought was an interesting approach to creating skins. I worked hard on writing the code and was nervous that one of the many good coders that read these articles would find some bug or piece of bad code, but I wanted to discuss these concepts and get ideas about inproving my own code and other approaches. I posted my article waiting to get comments on my code and the concept with which I approached creating skins. I must admit that I was caught off-guard by a few people critizing stuff that was silly to me like the fact that I used a picture of myself as a skin, or that I like to goof around and give myself a "handle" or nickname. I am just a regular guy with a famly who earns his living as a programmer. And I happen to really enjoy programming and enjoy the more creative end of coding in areas like animation, skins, and video. I would point out that "skins" are about trying to have some fun with programming and expressing oneself visually. But I finally concluded that empty barrels make the most noise. I did re-write the article and change my code to strip it of anything that might generate anymore silly comments being posted because my goal was not to be controversial, but to just share some code with others who might find it interesting and learn in return from their ideas. Bill SerGio, A Tired Newbie Author
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I am a first time author who posted an article because I wanted to share what I thought was an interesting approach to creating skins. I worked hard on writing the code and was nervous that one of the many good coders that read these articles would find some bug or piece of bad code, but I wanted to discuss these concepts and get ideas about inproving my own code and other approaches. I posted my article waiting to get comments on my code and the concept with which I approached creating skins. I must admit that I was caught off-guard by a few people critizing stuff that was silly to me like the fact that I used a picture of myself as a skin, or that I like to goof around and give myself a "handle" or nickname. I am just a regular guy with a famly who earns his living as a programmer. And I happen to really enjoy programming and enjoy the more creative end of coding in areas like animation, skins, and video. I would point out that "skins" are about trying to have some fun with programming and expressing oneself visually. But I finally concluded that empty barrels make the most noise. I did re-write the article and change my code to strip it of anything that might generate anymore silly comments being posted because my goal was not to be controversial, but to just share some code with others who might find it interesting and learn in return from their ideas. Bill SerGio, A Tired Newbie Author
Personally I found the article very interesting. Thanks and thanks to all authors and contributors. Matt Philmon mphilmon@pobox.com:)
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You mean a moderated forum? Maybe unmoderated discussions on CodeProject, and a moderated lounge. This would keep the board free of off-topic and offensive posts, and spam, but still allow lively discussions. cheers, Chris Maunder
I think a slightly better approach would be to give well-known users the ability to "hold" a message for approval. Then you or someone you assign can look at them and determine if they are too incendiary for the system. Flaming isn't necessarily bad either, lots can be learned in many flame-wars ;)
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Ah yes, I was going to suggest something similar with authors moderating the comments on the article.
No, I don't agree that authors should moderate the comments on their articles. I've seen this abused where someone doesn't like that someone else has found a bug or something and they moderate the bug report out of existance to make them look better.
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I am a first time author who posted an article because I wanted to share what I thought was an interesting approach to creating skins. I worked hard on writing the code and was nervous that one of the many good coders that read these articles would find some bug or piece of bad code, but I wanted to discuss these concepts and get ideas about inproving my own code and other approaches. I posted my article waiting to get comments on my code and the concept with which I approached creating skins. I must admit that I was caught off-guard by a few people critizing stuff that was silly to me like the fact that I used a picture of myself as a skin, or that I like to goof around and give myself a "handle" or nickname. I am just a regular guy with a famly who earns his living as a programmer. And I happen to really enjoy programming and enjoy the more creative end of coding in areas like animation, skins, and video. I would point out that "skins" are about trying to have some fun with programming and expressing oneself visually. But I finally concluded that empty barrels make the most noise. I did re-write the article and change my code to strip it of anything that might generate anymore silly comments being posted because my goal was not to be controversial, but to just share some code with others who might find it interesting and learn in return from their ideas. Bill SerGio, A Tired Newbie Author
hi, You did a good job on skins, expecting good articles from you. Cheers Kannan
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Relax Masoud :) Firstly, circumventing whatever procedures I put in place to stop anonymous postings is hardly going to qualify as a hanging offence. Besides - who would have the energy and resources to chase down a rogue Anonymous poster? I've thought about the whole rating system and it opens itself up to abuse as well. Someone can set up 15 aliases and then go around and kick off whatever posting they want. It just adds a new layer of complexity, and another piece that can be opened up to abuse. Why encourage people to try and get past my meager defenses? Besides, I'd rather spend my time planning CodeProject.NET so that we can all have a better time, than spend my time patching the discussion boards for the sake of a few noisy people hiding in the shadows. Let 'em have their 15 minutes. There are too many cool articles to read and fun stuff to be playing with to bother about them. cheers, Chris Maunder
"Besides, I'd rather spend my time planning CodeProject.NET so that we can all have a better time" I don't quite understand how codeproject.net is going to improve my life any, but I haven't bought into .NET (though SOAP sounds appealling) and I AM a Slashdot participant, so I'm obviously biased ;). But please, consideration moderation. It works well on Slashdot. Not perfectly, but well. I'm not sure how central a part of CodeProject the user comments and forums are, but I don't think there is anything that could improve user comments/forums more than than some sort of moderation. In fact, I admit it, I'm skeptical that "codeproject.NET" would offer more benefit and/or less complexity than a moderation system. Why let the "noisy people hiding in the shadows" have their 15 minutes at your expense when there are demonstrably effective ways of reducing their 15 minutes to 5 seconds?
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I am a first time author who posted an article because I wanted to share what I thought was an interesting approach to creating skins. I worked hard on writing the code and was nervous that one of the many good coders that read these articles would find some bug or piece of bad code, but I wanted to discuss these concepts and get ideas about inproving my own code and other approaches. I posted my article waiting to get comments on my code and the concept with which I approached creating skins. I must admit that I was caught off-guard by a few people critizing stuff that was silly to me like the fact that I used a picture of myself as a skin, or that I like to goof around and give myself a "handle" or nickname. I am just a regular guy with a famly who earns his living as a programmer. And I happen to really enjoy programming and enjoy the more creative end of coding in areas like animation, skins, and video. I would point out that "skins" are about trying to have some fun with programming and expressing oneself visually. But I finally concluded that empty barrels make the most noise. I did re-write the article and change my code to strip it of anything that might generate anymore silly comments being posted because my goal was not to be controversial, but to just share some code with others who might find it interesting and learn in return from their ideas. Bill SerGio, A Tired Newbie Author
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I am a first time author who posted an article because I wanted to share what I thought was an interesting approach to creating skins. I worked hard on writing the code and was nervous that one of the many good coders that read these articles would find some bug or piece of bad code, but I wanted to discuss these concepts and get ideas about inproving my own code and other approaches. I posted my article waiting to get comments on my code and the concept with which I approached creating skins. I must admit that I was caught off-guard by a few people critizing stuff that was silly to me like the fact that I used a picture of myself as a skin, or that I like to goof around and give myself a "handle" or nickname. I am just a regular guy with a famly who earns his living as a programmer. And I happen to really enjoy programming and enjoy the more creative end of coding in areas like animation, skins, and video. I would point out that "skins" are about trying to have some fun with programming and expressing oneself visually. But I finally concluded that empty barrels make the most noise. I did re-write the article and change my code to strip it of anything that might generate anymore silly comments being posted because my goal was not to be controversial, but to just share some code with others who might find it interesting and learn in return from their ideas. Bill SerGio, A Tired Newbie Author
Hey Man! :) Two thumbs up for you, your effort and your article. I actually voted excellent, coz it honestly is excellent and if there were no voting systems, I'd personally thank you with an email! :) We can all learn from our mistakes, but we can surely learn alot from contributors like Bill Sergio, so flamerboy, take your pick! Bill, Send more please! ;) PS. Hey flamerboy, Who cares if you post flames on this thread anyways! :rolleyes: Cheers! :)
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No, I don't agree that authors should moderate the comments on their articles. I've seen this abused where someone doesn't like that someone else has found a bug or something and they moderate the bug report out of existance to make them look better.
That was my concern. I don't think anything can be done apart from ignoring flamers. It has to be said that this problem is occasional.
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"Besides, I'd rather spend my time planning CodeProject.NET so that we can all have a better time" I don't quite understand how codeproject.net is going to improve my life any, but I haven't bought into .NET (though SOAP sounds appealling) and I AM a Slashdot participant, so I'm obviously biased ;). But please, consideration moderation. It works well on Slashdot. Not perfectly, but well. I'm not sure how central a part of CodeProject the user comments and forums are, but I don't think there is anything that could improve user comments/forums more than than some sort of moderation. In fact, I admit it, I'm skeptical that "codeproject.NET" would offer more benefit and/or less complexity than a moderation system. Why let the "noisy people hiding in the shadows" have their 15 minutes at your expense when there are demonstrably effective ways of reducing their 15 minutes to 5 seconds?
I was actually hoping someone would ask "CodeProject.NET? What is this mysterious, magical thing you talk about Chris?". Ah well... :) Basically we are rewriting the entire site using .NET. More speed, more cool stuff, and easier navigation. It won't solve any moderation problems, but it will allow us to put in place better systems for dealing with this stuff faster than we could now. cheers, Chris Maunder
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I am a first time author who posted an article because I wanted to share what I thought was an interesting approach to creating skins. I worked hard on writing the code and was nervous that one of the many good coders that read these articles would find some bug or piece of bad code, but I wanted to discuss these concepts and get ideas about inproving my own code and other approaches. I posted my article waiting to get comments on my code and the concept with which I approached creating skins. I must admit that I was caught off-guard by a few people critizing stuff that was silly to me like the fact that I used a picture of myself as a skin, or that I like to goof around and give myself a "handle" or nickname. I am just a regular guy with a famly who earns his living as a programmer. And I happen to really enjoy programming and enjoy the more creative end of coding in areas like animation, skins, and video. I would point out that "skins" are about trying to have some fun with programming and expressing oneself visually. But I finally concluded that empty barrels make the most noise. I did re-write the article and change my code to strip it of anything that might generate anymore silly comments being posted because my goal was not to be controversial, but to just share some code with others who might find it interesting and learn in return from their ideas. Bill SerGio, A Tired Newbie Author
Although the article and code was of no intisil interest to me, after seeing all the negative feedback about things like your face and your name, I decided to take a look at it to see the code was alright. I downlaoded it and was very impressed. I haven't looked at it since you updated the article, but I willt ry to if I get some free time soon. As to the people who flamed you - just ignore them. Don't even bother replying to them. Most people who read the comments on the artictles before reading the article itself will ignore then anon ones anyway, especialy when the have insulting words in the title. These guys were not being 'silly', they were being downright arrogant and rude. If I was visiting the http://www.thomasthetankengine.com/forums/ forum, I would expect childish arguments and name calling, not on a site like Code Project. And to Chris, please don't kill the anon posting. Sometimes if I am away from my normal machine (with a cookie storing my login info) and I need to post a message on the Code Project, I can't be bothered to log in, so just being able to create a message as anon and put my name in the message is a real time saver. Of course, the system was better before we had to log in, but there were abusers then too :mad:. David Wulff dwulff@battleaxesoftware.com
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And anyway, flame has always been fun to play with. I mean if we all went round not expressing opinions then the world would be a very boring place. But why would you like to have fun flaming someone which would hurt them?Mr. Paul Westcot! :confused: And why is it that you take this thread personal again? Like when you took it personal on another thread? Again I am :confused:? Cheers! :)
But why would you like to have fun flaming someone which would hurt them? To me when I say "flame" I don't mean a personal attack (unless warrented). But really that Bill SerGio went out there asking for it. I mean really. His shameless self promotion puts him in the line of fire. And in so doing he has a choice - either take the flak (either by being quiet or fighting back), or he can step down from his high horse and see that the world is a much better place when you don't make your self out to be the hero, and rather you act as the unassuming guide. Have fun, Paul Westcott.