Am I a bad programmer?
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It's with the apostrophe in it. You are correct.
Yeah, I know (ssh!) - I am old enough and fortunate enough to have benefitted from a classical education - when Britain still had an education system to be proud of... nowadays we have to rely on the likes of French Canadians of Russian descent (?) to teach us our own language... cheers / za vas Fred
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
No, not necessarily. It sounds like you're relatively new, and haven't had the idealism of youth beaten out of you yet. ;-) The reason that the guys around you are faster is that they have developed a more complete understanding of the code, based purely on accumulated experience, (and the fact that they probably wrote it.) If you want to change things around there, as the new member of the team, you won't have a lot of credibility if you *tell* your colleagues. You need to *show* them. This probably means that you will have to work five times harder than everyone else. Do you have the conviction in your beliefs to do that? If not, then it might be time to start looking for jobs where your beliefs are more congruent with the views of the existing staff. Good luck. PS. You can never insult your former colleagues if you do move on. Make an excuse that sounds plausible when you resign.
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
Eish! I feel the same. I am from the old school, and yes documentation is "NOT for REAL developers". Someone else has to reverse engineer the systems and try to figure out the inner workings - but still no documentation. Unfortunately I must say this is part of life (for developers only - or shall we call them coders instead?). I am in the same predicament, the only one learning from the net (and mostly from www.codeproject.com), reading books, white papers or anything else that may help me in my work. Yesterday was such an example - our company are busy moving from VB6 to C#, I am there for quite a while, and the company already spent thousands of $$ on getting a consulting company to "show us the right way", which was a ball's up in any case, and now they want to use another consulting company, just because they are too lazy to read... I overheard the conversation between two of my colleagues " we need to get them here (consulting company) soon, because I do not know how to do it and need them to show me..." The question actually was, "How do I launch an EXE from C#?" What a shame, that the person in question is in the industry for about 15 years, too lazy to do research because he "does not have time to read...” His documentation is one to two paragraphs long. The refuse to use a framework for systems development - the end result - no documentation. You are actually an excellent developer.... The confused are confused beyond confusion.
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Yeah, I know (ssh!) - I am old enough and fortunate enough to have benefitted from a classical education - when Britain still had an education system to be proud of... nowadays we have to rely on the likes of French Canadians of Russian descent (?) to teach us our own language... cheers / za vas Fred
My education was fine and I only finished university a few years ago! :) Don't buy into the media's perception of our education!! To the original poster - you're fine, and so are they. You just both enjoy different styles, if it works for the company and not for yourself then maybe you should think of joining a company that is a little more structured. If the system is obviously weak because of the coding, then you should speak up and change things.
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John Cardinal wrote:
Achilles heel
:-) strictly speaking, of course, there should be an apostrophe in there: Achilles' heel :-)
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Actually, according to the last example of Rule 2 at http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/apostro.asp[^] , because the name is singular (even though it ends with s), the correct version is "Achilles's".
What do Americans know about English? Bah, I say... I defy you to find ONE example in *Englsih* literature anywhere that uses that abomination! "Achilles's" indeed. :rolleyes: :^)
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What do Americans know about English? Bah, I say... I defy you to find ONE example in *Englsih* literature anywhere that uses that abomination! "Achilles's" indeed. :rolleyes: :^)
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It's in our genes... we only spell things the way we do to annoy and confuse the French!
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
Bad Programmer! BAAAAD Programmer (I say as I smack you on the nose with a rolled up newspaper)! Now go outside and don't come back in until you are paper-trained. :)
m.bergman
-- For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
While the rest of the clowns in here debate the nuances of shades-of-gray grammatical meaningless, I will try to give you a reasonable answer. GET THE H@LL of that place now before they ruin you for life!!! Find a group that appreciates the proper way of doing IT and go to it now. There are plenty of fine companies that know what is the right way. Your current company is on the road to disaster. I am serious - save your soul and get out now.
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What do Americans know about English? Bah, I say... I defy you to find ONE example in *Englsih* literature anywhere that uses that abomination! "Achilles's" indeed. :rolleyes: :^)
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
You're not a bad programmer. I work in a company with the same problems. Now I'm still working on a project started 2 years ago, and with me there are 3 programmers. I wrote some code, other parts were written by each other. Every line of code, every table in the DB, and every flow is still undocumented at all. :confused: Unfortunately it's hard to make the company's boss understand this :mad: when you was selected on the task. To them, the only important thing is to solve the problem in the faster and less expensive solution. :cool: regards, Aniel
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
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So, the company I work for is pretty small, only about 8 developers. The biggest (web) app is very complicated and is chalk full of errors. To compound the issue, there is absolutly ZERO documentation in the code / database. The DB also has no Foriegn Key contraints and is only marginally normalized. I don't work on the app that much, so I'm not as familiar as everyone else is with it. Whenever a problem comes up, they can jump right to the problem, but it sometimes takes me hours.... The question is "Am I a bad programmer, or are they?" Most of us were drilled with the "document your code" as we were learning either by instructors or books, but no one here does that (except me).:mad: As far as new development goes, IMHO I think I am *better* because I grasp the concepts of normalization, documentation, OOD. All new concepts to them. I had to explain normalization and pursuede them to let me do it on some new tables I added!:mad: And this is no hole-in-the-wall company either, they have some BIG clients. Well, thanks for letting me beef!
Sounds so much like the company that I used to work for. Good Luck... in some cases, the more time you spend on trying to prove someone isn't doing their job correctly and the less time you spend actually working turns out poorly in the end. Let me know what your perspective is in 20 years...
Suz