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  3. Microsoft Certifications...Need em? How many? Why?

Microsoft Certifications...Need em? How many? Why?

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  • F Offline
    F Offline
    fordc03
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford

    E M M C M 13 Replies Last reply
    0
    • F fordc03

      So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford

      E Offline
      E Offline
      Ennis Ray Lynch Jr
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization. Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.


      Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway

      F M L N C 6 Replies Last reply
      0
      • F fordc03

        So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford

        M Offline
        M Offline
        Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        fordc03 wrote:

        Do you need a certification?

        No, not really, even though I have a few up my sleeves(MCP, MCAD and several OpenText certs)

        fordc03 wrote:

        some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion.

        did you mean torture? But yes, the MCAD ones were rather unrelated to the concepts that you were supposed to be digesting while reading the material. Very little emphasis on practical issues. I'm not saying they're totally worthless, no, but then again they're not all that either, at least the Microsoft ones. Besides, if you know how to code/administer/manage whatever it is your job demands, then you know your stuff and you're recognized by your peers/coworkers/bosses and what not.

        "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

        F 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • F fordc03

          So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford

          M Offline
          M Offline
          martin_hughes
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          fordc03 wrote:

          Do you need a certification?

          Yes, in the same way a degree helps to prove what you're worth.

          Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.

          M F M S 4 Replies Last reply
          0
          • M martin_hughes

            fordc03 wrote:

            Do you need a certification?

            Yes, in the same way a degree helps to prove what you're worth.

            Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.

            M Offline
            M Offline
            Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            martin_hughes wrote:

            "I phoned Camelot and they fobbed me off with some story that -6 is higher - not lower - than -8 but I'm not having it.

            haha :laugh::laugh: 5 for the sig :-D And if I could raise by another 5 I would :-D

            "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • M martin_hughes

              fordc03 wrote:

              Do you need a certification?

              Yes, in the same way a degree helps to prove what you're worth.

              Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.

              F Offline
              F Offline
              fordc03
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              See...I agree! =) However, the surveys say I'm wasting my time...they even said that non-cert people are getting paid more than cert people...Who buys those lies?! :)

              L 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • M Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

                fordc03 wrote:

                Do you need a certification?

                No, not really, even though I have a few up my sleeves(MCP, MCAD and several OpenText certs)

                fordc03 wrote:

                some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion.

                did you mean torture? But yes, the MCAD ones were rather unrelated to the concepts that you were supposed to be digesting while reading the material. Very little emphasis on practical issues. I'm not saying they're totally worthless, no, but then again they're not all that either, at least the Microsoft ones. Besides, if you know how to code/administer/manage whatever it is your job demands, then you know your stuff and you're recognized by your peers/coworkers/bosses and what not.

                "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

                F Offline
                F Offline
                fordc03
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Yes...I meant torture...wow that was a bad grammar mistake...

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

                  Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization. Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.


                  Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
                  Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway

                  F Offline
                  F Offline
                  fordc03
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  I agree to a point... The proof is in the pudding right? =)

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

                    Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization. Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.


                    Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
                    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway

                    M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mircea Grelus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    I don't fully agree. You can say that about any degree: college, universities and that wouldn't be quite accurate. The problem is that tests from organizations like TestKing somehow have the questions and the answers of these certs, thus offering people the possibility of memorizing their way through. I have an MCP in ASP.NET and some of the questions I got during the test were quite dumb, like "Where in the menu can you find the option for ...", which has nothing to do with ASP.NET. Now if there were actually questions that represented real ASP.NET situations like creating controls dynamically, leveraging the capabilities of client side/server side, etc, these certifications would probably worth more. Of course having the answers to the questions available on the internet should be out of the question. MS should manage this better. It's not that they don't worth anything, it's just that they don't worth much, because people were able to cheat their way through.


                    Last modified: 2mins after originally posted --

                    Cheers, Mircea "Pay people peanuts and you get monkeys" - David Ogilvy

                    R 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • F fordc03

                      So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford

                      C Offline
                      C Offline
                      Chris Austin
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Personally, I don't go for certs for myself or my contractors/employees. In all honesty the first thing I look for is experience followed by references and education. If all the candidate has to offer are certs then they don't make the cut.

                      My Blog A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • F fordc03

                        So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford

                        M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Member 96
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        I never took any Microsoft exams, but I interviewed many who had them for networking and they were no indication of anything relevant whatsoever. I did take the Novell CNE exames for networking, they were expensive and ultimately pointless except for the sole benefit that as we had two CNE's in our shop we got leads from Novell at the time (something like that). I learned more on the job than they ever taught in any school.


                        More people died from worry than ever bled to death. - RAH

                        I 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • F fordc03

                          See...I agree! =) However, the surveys say I'm wasting my time...they even said that non-cert people are getting paid more than cert people...Who buys those lies?! :)

                          L Offline
                          L Offline
                          Llasus
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Yes it is true that some non-cert are getting higher pays. It's because instead of the certification they can boast about the experience they have in their previous works. Which is actually reasonably enough for most companies to pay them on a high amount. Just think about it if who will an employer pay higher, someone with 5 years and 15+ projects under his/her belt; or someone with a 1 year 5+ certification exams passed? Not saying I'm against it though, just enough balance with experience and use certifications to your leverage. BTW, I also have 2 certification exams passed but experience is still a heavier factor.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

                            Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization. Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.


                            Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
                            Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway

                            L Offline
                            L Offline
                            Llasus
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Majority of it is memorization. But there would still be a need of a certain understanding though not as deep. Some certifications require technical exams which requires you to fill in the blanks of a sample application's code and output, so no memorization in that. :)

                            J 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • F fordc03

                              So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford

                              N Offline
                              N Offline
                              Nemanja Trifunovic
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              If I got one of these, my boss would probably fire me.


                              Programming Blog utf8-cpp

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • F fordc03

                                So, a co-worker and I got into a discussion...Do you need a certification? Personally, I find mine very valuable. What say you? My goal I think is to have the right to say, "I survived the Microsoft onslaught." Why? I have 8 Microsoft Certifications and 1 CompTIA certification. All received since 2003. and in the next 3 months I will probly go take the .Net 2.0 cert tests just to add those... Obnoxious? Possibly. =) But I do think for me, taking the tests solidifies what I learned. AND...to battle the statements "The questions aren't relevant!" I believe that they are relevant to a point. not whether it's right or wrong, but that it's a solution for which the product can be used to solve...not whether it's the best one or not either. Also, to make a quick note...I believe that the current certifications since 2003 are more relevant than in years past. Personally, I feel the most valuable certs have been the Windows Server 2003 exams and the SQL Server 2005 exams. The MCAD, MCSD certs were just some kind of twisted torcher in my opinion. =) I'm hoping the .Net 2.0 certifications are much more revelant than it's predecessor. :) Christopher Ford

                                S Offline
                                S Offline
                                si618
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                I've just started on one. Few reasons, firstly, my company is willing to pay for the resources and exams, and to allocate some time for me to spend learning/revising. Secondly, our company is looking to become an MS partner and apparently you need MS certified folks to make this happen (or make it easier, not sure). And lastly, although most jobs I see don't ask for certs, after spending the time reviewing the different aspects of the MCPD-EAD, it should expose me to some areas of .NET where I haven't spent much time, and also help polish up in other areas. This can only be a good thing for my current job, and of course if I need to get another job. I figure the timing is about right, getting the certs for .NET 2.0 now should make the extra work required for .NET 3.0/3.5 easier in a few years time (when all the dust has settled).

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • L Llasus

                                  Majority of it is memorization. But there would still be a need of a certain understanding though not as deep. Some certifications require technical exams which requires you to fill in the blanks of a sample application's code and output, so no memorization in that. :)

                                  J Offline
                                  J Offline
                                  Jwalant Natvarlal Soneji
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  very true! Dumps are already there online, one can see and try to get 900 above out of 1000.

                                  Jwalant Natvarlal Soneji
                                  BE IT, India

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • M Member 96

                                    I never took any Microsoft exams, but I interviewed many who had them for networking and they were no indication of anything relevant whatsoever. I did take the Novell CNE exames for networking, they were expensive and ultimately pointless except for the sole benefit that as we had two CNE's in our shop we got leads from Novell at the time (something like that). I learned more on the job than they ever taught in any school.


                                    More people died from worry than ever bled to death. - RAH

                                    I Offline
                                    I Offline
                                    Ilya Verbitskiy
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    This is difficult to say, certification is good or not.If you will learn all materials by yourself you have very good knowledge. I think that Microsoft has very good books for exams training programs. But, for example, I'll read these books, but won't go to the special courses, because they're very expensive. What do we have now? If you want to pass an examination, you can simple download brain dumps, read them and pass exam. I think that this is very stupid idea, these guys will not have good knowledge after that. Why spend time? I can't understand. For example, I will not spend time for this, because this is stupid...

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

                                      Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization. Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.


                                      Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
                                      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway

                                      N Offline
                                      N Offline
                                      NormDroid
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Good answer

                                      WPF - Imagineers Wanted Follow your nose using DoubleAnimationUsingPath

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

                                        Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization. Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.


                                        Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
                                        Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway

                                        C Offline
                                        C Offline
                                        Colin Angus Mackay
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:

                                        Certifications just prove you are capable of memorization

                                        Well, I've got 5 certs and I have a really poor memory. I sat through the exams and worked everything out. Therefore your statement in my case is false.

                                        Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:

                                        Without a deep and complete understanding of why a developer is just a lemming marching towards a cliff doing what the book said to do.

                                        For someone, like me, with a poor memory I do need a deep understanding. And I object to being called a lemming.


                                        Upcoming FREE developer events: * Glasgow: SQL Server Managed Objects AND Reporting Services ... My website

                                        E 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • M Mircea Grelus

                                          I don't fully agree. You can say that about any degree: college, universities and that wouldn't be quite accurate. The problem is that tests from organizations like TestKing somehow have the questions and the answers of these certs, thus offering people the possibility of memorizing their way through. I have an MCP in ASP.NET and some of the questions I got during the test were quite dumb, like "Where in the menu can you find the option for ...", which has nothing to do with ASP.NET. Now if there were actually questions that represented real ASP.NET situations like creating controls dynamically, leveraging the capabilities of client side/server side, etc, these certifications would probably worth more. Of course having the answers to the questions available on the internet should be out of the question. MS should manage this better. It's not that they don't worth anything, it's just that they don't worth much, because people were able to cheat their way through.


                                          Last modified: 2mins after originally posted --

                                          Cheers, Mircea "Pay people peanuts and you get monkeys" - David Ogilvy

                                          R Offline
                                          R Offline
                                          Rajesh R Subramanian
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Mircea Grelus wrote:

                                          It's not that they don't worth anything, it's just that they don't worth much, because people were able to cheat their way through.

                                          Well put.


                                          Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->ßRÅhmmÃ<-·´¯`·.

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