Microsoft, Autodesk lose patent appeal
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And people wonder why i use my current sig.
...cmk The idea that I can be presented with a problem, set out to logically solve it with the tools at hand, and wind up with a program that could not be legally used because someone else followed the same logical steps some years ago and filed for a patent on it is horrifying. - John Carmack
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Where I work if I patent anything (even if not related to my work) they own the rights.
that's lame. afaik anything I do on my own time with my own hardware is mine, along with anything else that my employer explicitly declines to patent. OTOH I don't anticipate patenting anything so it doesn't really matter.
-- Help Stamp Out and Abolish Redundancy The preceding is courtesy of the Department of Unnecessarily Redundant Repetition Department.
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norm .net wrote:
and used to reap millions.
Only the lawyers get rich. Next life, when I reincarnate as a woman, I'm going to be a strip club dancing lawyer. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Only the lawyers get rich. Next life, when I reincarnate as a woman, I'm going to be a strip club dancing lawyer.
You missed a category of rich person. The therapist I'm going to have to see to get that image out of my mind.;)
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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Where I work if I patent anything (even if not related to my work) they own the rights.
that's pretty standard in the US. typically, they'll also own the rights to anything you do, even in your off-work time, that relates (in their eyes) to their business.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Only the lawyers get rich. Next life, when I reincarnate as a woman, I'm going to be a strip club dancing lawyer.
You missed a category of rich person. The therapist I'm going to have to see to get that image out of my mind.;)
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
Pete O`Hanlon wrote:
The therapist I'm going to have to see to get that image out of my mind.
I'll have to figure out how create a therapist, politician, stripper, lawyer job. That would make for an interesting character on an MMP roleplaying game. Marc
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Pete O`Hanlon wrote:
The therapist I'm going to have to see to get that image out of my mind.
I'll have to figure out how create a therapist, politician, stripper, lawyer job. That would make for an interesting character on an MMP roleplaying game. Marc
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Where I work if I patent anything (even if not related to my work) they own the rights.
Why don't you patent something ridiculously stupid? Would you get fired for that?
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
that's pretty standard in the US. typically, they'll also own the rights to anything you do, even in your off-work time, that relates (in their eyes) to their business.
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Where I work if I patent anything (even if not related to my work) they own the rights.
I agree with Danny Boy up yonder, if it's on your time, it's your patent. However, if it's on their time, well that's their patent.
"On one of my cards it said I had to find temperatures lower than -8. The numbers I uncovered were -6 and -7 so I thought I had won, and so did the woman in the shop. But when she scanned the card the machine said I hadn't. "I phoned Camelot and they fobbed me off with some story that -6 is higher - not lower - than -8 but I'm not having it." -Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.
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that's pretty standard in the US. typically, they'll also own the rights to anything you do, even in your off-work time, that relates (in their eyes) to their business.
Isn't it a question of proof? No company can "own" what you do in your own time, however if you do something that is business related, and then use that at work, if you can't prove that you did it in your own time you're a bit scuppered.
"On one of my cards it said I had to find temperatures lower than -8. The numbers I uncovered were -6 and -7 so I thought I had won, and so did the woman in the shop. But when she scanned the card the machine said I hadn't. "I phoned Camelot and they fobbed me off with some story that -6 is higher - not lower - than -8 but I'm not having it." -Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.
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I agree with Danny Boy up yonder, if it's on your time, it's your patent. However, if it's on their time, well that's their patent.
"On one of my cards it said I had to find temperatures lower than -8. The numbers I uncovered were -6 and -7 so I thought I had won, and so did the woman in the shop. But when she scanned the card the machine said I hadn't. "I phoned Camelot and they fobbed me off with some story that -6 is higher - not lower - than -8 but I'm not having it." -Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.
Commonsense doesn't come into it - you need to check your employment contract. From my experience the most common arrangement is for the employer to have the rights to anything related to your work that you develop whilst employed there - whether you develop it at home on your hardware or not.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
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Isn't it a question of proof? No company can "own" what you do in your own time, however if you do something that is business related, and then use that at work, if you can't prove that you did it in your own time you're a bit scuppered.
"On one of my cards it said I had to find temperatures lower than -8. The numbers I uncovered were -6 and -7 so I thought I had won, and so did the woman in the shop. But when she scanned the card the machine said I hadn't. "I phoned Camelot and they fobbed me off with some story that -6 is higher - not lower - than -8 but I'm not having it." -Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.
martin_hughes wrote:
Isn't it a question of proof?
It's generally a question of what you signed. Most companies would be considered negligent if they didn't have such clauses in their employment contracts. From their perspective they take on a new employee and expose them to all their corporate secrets and current R&D. Without any contractual protection the employee could, in their own time, develop a better widget at home, and then go and patent it!
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
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Chris Losinger wrote:
even in your off-work time, that relates (in their eyes) to their business
They can try, but they would have a hard time enforcing it in court.
More people died from worry than ever bled to death. - RAH
their full-time legal staff v. your out-of-pocket lawyer.
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Isn't it a question of proof? No company can "own" what you do in your own time, however if you do something that is business related, and then use that at work, if you can't prove that you did it in your own time you're a bit scuppered.
"On one of my cards it said I had to find temperatures lower than -8. The numbers I uncovered were -6 and -7 so I thought I had won, and so did the woman in the shop. But when she scanned the card the machine said I hadn't. "I phoned Camelot and they fobbed me off with some story that -6 is higher - not lower - than -8 but I'm not having it." -Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.
martin_hughes wrote:
No company can "own" what you do in your own time
they can if you sign papers saying they can
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Commonsense doesn't come into it - you need to check your employment contract. From my experience the most common arrangement is for the employer to have the rights to anything related to your work that you develop whilst employed there - whether you develop it at home on your hardware or not.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
My fist, belligerence, embarrasing-to-the-clowns-I-work-for-enabled-insider-knowledge, access to every customer we've ever dealt with and all round "just try me!" attitude overrides my contract :-D Also, I'm pretty sure that your employer cannot legally claim ownership of stuff you do on your time regardless of any contract you've signed unless you are paid or compensated for it.
"On one of my cards it said I had to find temperatures lower than -8. The numbers I uncovered were -6 and -7 so I thought I had won, and so did the woman in the shop. But when she scanned the card the machine said I hadn't. "I phoned Camelot and they fobbed me off with some story that -6 is higher - not lower - than -8 but I'm not having it." -Tina Farrell, a 23 year old thicky from Levenshulme, Manchester.
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their full-time legal staff v. your out-of-pocket lawyer.
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If you can afford to patent something you can certainly afford a lawyer to fight it and precedent is on your side. I doubt they would even try.
More people died from worry than ever bled to death. - RAH
John Cardinal wrote:
precedent is on your side
not really.
Agreements requiring the transfer of all ideas, innovations and creations made in the scope of the employer's business, regardless of whether they were made during normal working hours or on company premises, have been found to be valid. On the other hand, those requiring the assignment of everything an employee does, even if it has no relation to the employer's business, are generally invalid. Provisions in employment agreements which cover inventions conceived even before employment have been held valid, and provisions which cover inventions made after termination of employment have also been held valid.
http://www.dwpm.com/content/main/inventions_workplace.php3[^]
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Commonsense doesn't come into it - you need to check your employment contract. From my experience the most common arrangement is for the employer to have the rights to anything related to your work that you develop whilst employed there - whether you develop it at home on your hardware or not.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
Some jurisdictions, e.g. Kalifornia, have enacted legislation specifically forbidding employers from claiming IP developed by their employees on the employees own time using the employees own resources. I know, because my employment contract specifically excludes California-based employees from some of it's provisions.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
when I reincarnate as a woman, I'm going to be a strip club dancing lawyer.
Hopefully with far less facial hair ... ;P
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
Z4 Technologies Inc. sued Microsoft and Autodesk Inc., maker of drafting software, in 2004, claiming the technology they used to activate newly installed software and deter piracy infringed on patents created and owned by David Colvin, the owner of privately held z4. Commerce Township, Mich.-based z4 argued that Microsoft's Windows XP and Office 2003 suite of productivity software used its patented method of asking computer users to supply two passwords, or authorization codes, before they could fully use new software. The technology in question also can be used to deactivate software. In April 2006, a federal jury in East Texas ordered Microsoft to pay $115 million to z4, plus attorney fees and $25 million for willful patent infringement. Microsoft, which had argued that the patents were invalid, appealed the decision. The jury also ordered Autodesk to pay $18 million to z4. link hope its not a repost...
_________________________ "When the superior man refrains from acting, his force is felt for a thousand li." Sun Tzu
The question is "Why would anyone want to build a successful business, it will get sued out of existance anyway.."? Maybe someday, people will get the bright idea (not patented) to do the world a favor and get rid of all software patents!
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