Asteriod strike?
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Ilíon wrote:
Exactly. Science, the real thing, isn't about truth.
Actually, it IS about truth, you pinhead. It is the pursuit of truth, rather than actually BEING truth.
Ilíon wrote:
Which is but another way of saying that no scientific statement can *ever* honestly be claimed to be true ... not on the basis of science, at any rate.
It can be claimed true insofar as it hasn't ever been proven false. As soon as it is proven false, it is rejected as truth. I'd like to hear your methods, though.
Ilíon wrote:
But you can never use science to determine the truth-status of any scientific statement.
No, we all need to ask you, because you know everything. You don't need to prove anything to anyone, because anyone that shows you evidence to the contrary and tells you that you've wasted your life pursuing idiocy you brand an ignorant twit.
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Actually, it IS about truth, you pinhead. It is the pursuit of truth, rather than actually BEING truth. ... It can be claimed true insofar as it hasn't ever been proven false. As soon as it is proven false, it is rejected as truth. I'd like to hear your methods, though.
Talk about pinheads! What you're talking about here has nothing to do with truth ... this is called (in part) Positivism (there are other things going on in those statements). It's a bankrupt and discredited philosophy. Right here, right now, you've acknowledged that this "science" thingie you're worshipping isn't about truth, and you are completely unable or unwilling to see this.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
No, we all need to ask you, because you know everything. You don't need to prove anything to anyone, because anyone that shows you evidence to the contrary and tells you that you've wasted your life pursuing idiocy you brand an ignorant twit.
L'il Pinhead: 1) You haven't *shown* anything to be contrary to any statement I've even made; what you've done it wail: "That ain't true cuz I don't wanna believe it! 2) You initiated the branding; you get what you ask for.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Actually, it IS about truth, you pinhead. It is the pursuit of truth, rather than actually BEING truth. ... It can be claimed true insofar as it hasn't ever been proven false. As soon as it is proven false, it is rejected as truth. I'd like to hear your methods, though.
Talk about pinheads! What you're talking about here has nothing to do with truth ... this is called (in part) Positivism (there are other things going on in those statements). It's a bankrupt and discredited philosophy. Right here, right now, you've acknowledged that this "science" thingie you're worshipping isn't about truth, and you are completely unable or unwilling to see this.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
No, we all need to ask you, because you know everything. You don't need to prove anything to anyone, because anyone that shows you evidence to the contrary and tells you that you've wasted your life pursuing idiocy you brand an ignorant twit.
L'il Pinhead: 1) You haven't *shown* anything to be contrary to any statement I've even made; what you've done it wail: "That ain't true cuz I don't wanna believe it! 2) You initiated the branding; you get what you ask for.
I could argue against everything you said there, but I don't want to distract you from this: You claim that I worship science. What do you worship instead?
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Tad McClellan wrote:
The story says that the odds are supposed to go down (not a good thing for the martians) as time goes on. I suspect that as the astriod and mars move and they get more data about tragetory and that sort of thing they can get thier math more correct. Its calculas and the more data you throw into the function the better the answer. They have probably run all the probably numbers to even get the odds right so the 1 in 75 is probably best case for mars (again viewing it from teh martians perspective).
Think about this, will you? How can they not already know the trajectory? The asteroid wasn't discovered just today, it was discovered a month ago -- they know where it was a month ago and they know where it is today. These things don't weave and bob, there are no cross-winds to deflect the trajectory; at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory (when it gets close to the planet) -- and, supposedly, Mars' mass and gravity is well understood.
modified on Friday, December 21, 2007 7:34:09 AM
Ilíon wrote:
at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory
Really? You don't think the sun or Jupiter will have an effect? You don't think there is a margin of error in estimating the trajectory of an object so small that happens to be moving at high velocity millions of miles away. Also, I'm pretty sure the only estimate for the size of an asteroid at that distance is it's visual magnitude which depends on the color and reflectivity of the asteroid material adding even more uncertainty. So, no given the scale of the objects and the scale of the solar system, no it doesn't seem odd to me at all.
This blanket smells like ham
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Ilíon wrote:
at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory
Really? You don't think the sun or Jupiter will have an effect? You don't think there is a margin of error in estimating the trajectory of an object so small that happens to be moving at high velocity millions of miles away. Also, I'm pretty sure the only estimate for the size of an asteroid at that distance is it's visual magnitude which depends on the color and reflectivity of the asteroid material adding even more uncertainty. So, no given the scale of the objects and the scale of the solar system, no it doesn't seem odd to me at all.
This blanket smells like ham
This is Troy D. Hailey we're talking about. He doesn't think.
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Steve Mayfield wrote:
currently a 1 in 75 chance it may hit Mars on January 30
Doesn't this strike anyone else as odd? These 'scientists' know where Mars is (and where it will be); they know where the asteroid is (and where it will be); yet that can't say for certain that the asteroid will or will not strike the planet.
Ilíon wrote:
These 'scientists' know where Mars is (and where it will be); they know where the asteroid is (and where it will be); yet that can't say for certain that the asteroid will or will not strike the planet.
hmmm.... have you ever tried to calculate the exact position of a single vehicle using only one vantage point? Although you can extract multiple triangulation points through time as the vantage point and the object moves, it assumes you know precisely where you are down the last nanometer because every variation and error associated with the source observer position exponentially effects the calculated position of the object. we reduce error over time and repeated calculations, but can never remove it.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Those Asteriods are buggers, like their near cousins the Asteroids the come crashing in and killing everything and getting all rowdy. We need to send up ships with massive lasers,to shoot them into smaller, more managable pieces. Hey doesn't that sound like a great idea for a game?
------------------------------------ I try to appear cooler, by calling him Euler.
Dalek Dave wrote:
We need to send up ships with massive lasers,to shoot them into smaller, more managable pieces.
but what if aliens in flying saucers tried to prevent us by shooting at us. Hey, we could put that in too! and make the aliens faster and move erratically in higher levels.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Ilíon wrote:
at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory
Really? You don't think the sun or Jupiter will have an effect? You don't think there is a margin of error in estimating the trajectory of an object so small that happens to be moving at high velocity millions of miles away. Also, I'm pretty sure the only estimate for the size of an asteroid at that distance is it's visual magnitude which depends on the color and reflectivity of the asteroid material adding even more uncertainty. So, no given the scale of the objects and the scale of the solar system, no it doesn't seem odd to me at all.
This blanket smells like ham
Ilíon: "How can they not already know the trajectory? . The asteroid wasn't discovered just today, it was discovered a month ago -- they know where it was a month ago and they know where it is today. These things don't weave and bob, there are no cross-winds to deflect the trajectory; at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory (when it gets close to the planet) -- and, supposedly, Mars' mass and gravity is well understood. "
Andy Brummer wrote:
Really? You don't think the sun or Jupiter will have an effect?
You people simply refuse to think, don't you? You are so eager to demonstrate not merely your ignorance (we're all ignorant), but your Invincible Ignorance. The asteroid is already a part of the solar system.
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Ilíon: "How can they not already know the trajectory? . The asteroid wasn't discovered just today, it was discovered a month ago -- they know where it was a month ago and they know where it is today. These things don't weave and bob, there are no cross-winds to deflect the trajectory; at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory (when it gets close to the planet) -- and, supposedly, Mars' mass and gravity is well understood. "
Andy Brummer wrote:
Really? You don't think the sun or Jupiter will have an effect?
You people simply refuse to think, don't you? You are so eager to demonstrate not merely your ignorance (we're all ignorant), but your Invincible Ignorance. The asteroid is already a part of the solar system.
Ilíon wrote:
The asteroid is already a part of the solar system.
So are you, and you're affected by the Earth's gravity.
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
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Ilíon: "How can they not already know the trajectory? . The asteroid wasn't discovered just today, it was discovered a month ago -- they know where it was a month ago and they know where it is today. These things don't weave and bob, there are no cross-winds to deflect the trajectory; at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory (when it gets close to the planet) -- and, supposedly, Mars' mass and gravity is well understood. "
Andy Brummer wrote:
Really? You don't think the sun or Jupiter will have an effect?
You people simply refuse to think, don't you? You are so eager to demonstrate not merely your ignorance (we're all ignorant), but your Invincible Ignorance. The asteroid is already a part of the solar system.
You might want to explain what "already part of the solar system" is. From the common definition, I'd guess anything within a certain radius of the sun's center is part of the solar system. Anyhow, so what? That doesn't exclude objects within the solar system from the laws of physics.
Ilíon wrote:
You people simply refuse to think, don't you?
It could be quite the contrary—you are refusing to think. In fact, you might be so full of your own sh*t that you can't see you're the only one not thinking.
ROFLOLMFAO
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
blather, blather, blather
Sonny Boy (like I really believe you're 14), I'm not the one who believes that "Science" == TrVth.
Supply an object to this method that will make it return
true.bool ContainsTruth(Practices area) { if (area == Practices.Science) return true; else return false; }Practicesis an enumeration. Guess the results for these:ContainsTruth(Practices.Creationism); ContainsTruth(Practices.Metaphysics);ROFLOLMFAO
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Doesn't it strike you as odd, that someone that claims to be so well versed in "logic", could have such a hard time deducing this information? :-D
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
He reminds me of those Creationists. No matter how much evidence you give them, they don't get it.
ROFLOLMFAO
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Ilíon wrote:
at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory
Really? You don't think the sun or Jupiter will have an effect? You don't think there is a margin of error in estimating the trajectory of an object so small that happens to be moving at high velocity millions of miles away. Also, I'm pretty sure the only estimate for the size of an asteroid at that distance is it's visual magnitude which depends on the color and reflectivity of the asteroid material adding even more uncertainty. So, no given the scale of the objects and the scale of the solar system, no it doesn't seem odd to me at all.
This blanket smells like ham
The main problem would be their inability to accurately produce the mass of the asteroid. Without an solid number to go off of they can't predict the asteroid orbit or path through our solar system. Depending on how long they've been tracking, it's probably a matter of needing more data points.
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Steve Mayfield wrote:
currently a 1 in 75 chance it may hit Mars on January 30
Doesn't this strike anyone else as odd? These 'scientists' know where Mars is (and where it will be); they know where the asteroid is (and where it will be); yet that can't say for certain that the asteroid will or will not strike the planet.
Elementary physics, my dear Ilíon.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
Tad McClellan wrote:
The story says that the odds are supposed to go down (not a good thing for the martians) as time goes on. I suspect that as the astriod and mars move and they get more data about tragetory and that sort of thing they can get thier math more correct. Its calculas and the more data you throw into the function the better the answer. They have probably run all the probably numbers to even get the odds right so the 1 in 75 is probably best case for mars (again viewing it from teh martians perspective).
Think about this, will you? How can they not already know the trajectory? The asteroid wasn't discovered just today, it was discovered a month ago -- they know where it was a month ago and they know where it is today. These things don't weave and bob, there are no cross-winds to deflect the trajectory; at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory (when it gets close to the planet) -- and, supposedly, Mars' mass and gravity is well understood.
modified on Friday, December 21, 2007 7:34:09 AM
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Ilíon wrote:
Sonny Boy (like I really believe you're 14)
No, because that would mean that I'm smarter than you are, and that couldn't be, could it? And I'm thirteen, by the way. Idiot.
Ilíon wrote:
I'm not the one who believes that "Science" == TrVth.
No, you believe that whatever you say is truth. I believe that science is working towards truth, and that even though it may not always be right, it constantly readjusts itself whenever truths are found. It's not as dull and stubborn as you are.
"We were backstage, playing Monopoly. Totally forgot there was a show, so sorry we are late." - Maynard James Keenan
Don't play with your food. On second thoughts do, it keeps us amused and him frustrated :laugh: Actually you are showing much greater maturity then your err...oponent. Elaine :rose:
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
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I suggest you study metrology - the science of measurements. Elaine :rose:
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
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You might want to explain what "already part of the solar system" is. From the common definition, I'd guess anything within a certain radius of the sun's center is part of the solar system. Anyhow, so what? That doesn't exclude objects within the solar system from the laws of physics.
Ilíon wrote:
You people simply refuse to think, don't you?
It could be quite the contrary—you are refusing to think. In fact, you might be so full of your own sh*t that you can't see you're the only one not thinking.
ROFLOLMFAO
Ri Qen-Sin wrote:
Anyhow, so what? That doesn't exclude objects within the solar system from the laws of physics.
Why don't you try to explain this to Mr Brummer ... and to yourself, of course? :doh: Allow me to remind you of his silly "challenge" to me: "Really? You don't think the sun or Jupiter will have an effect?" :laugh:
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Elementary physics, my dear Ilíon.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist -
The main problem would be their inability to accurately produce the mass of the asteroid. Without an solid number to go off of they can't predict the asteroid orbit or path through our solar system. Depending on how long they've been tracking, it's probably a matter of needing more data points.
Regardless of the mass of any object, it doesn't go just bouncing around in space. You know, inertia and all that. ............... Also, this object is right in front of our eyes, so to speak. If our scientific "truth" can't determine the mass of something that can be observed up close and in real time, why would you trust that it can determine the mass of objects thousands or millions (or billions) of light years away?
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Tad McClellan wrote:
The story says that the odds are supposed to go down (not a good thing for the martians) as time goes on. I suspect that as the astriod and mars move and they get more data about tragetory and that sort of thing they can get thier math more correct. Its calculas and the more data you throw into the function the better the answer. They have probably run all the probably numbers to even get the odds right so the 1 in 75 is probably best case for mars (again viewing it from teh martians perspective).
Think about this, will you? How can they not already know the trajectory? The asteroid wasn't discovered just today, it was discovered a month ago -- they know where it was a month ago and they know where it is today. These things don't weave and bob, there are no cross-winds to deflect the trajectory; at most, the gravity of Mars will affect the asteroid's trajectory (when it gets close to the planet) -- and, supposedly, Mars' mass and gravity is well understood.
modified on Friday, December 21, 2007 7:34:09 AM
I think we have discovered the problem here. They didn't account for the gravity generated by the mass of your far superior brain. That must be effecting the path of the thing. Actually you are correct they know all those things but what they don't know is the mass of the object itself. Gravity is a two way street and the gravity of an object is based on it's mass. They actually do "weave and bob" (although not sharply of course) based on how they are effected by the gravity of other objects of around it. It's all relativity. Even light doesn't move in a straight path. It's effected by gravity as well. This is predictable but you have to understand the mass of all the objects involved.