There is no such thing as time
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
You're on to something! ;) In modern physics time is regarded as the fourth dimension and there is an interesting concept called string theory. For more check spacetime[^] and this on string theory.[^] Network integrated solutions | Flickr A practical use of the MVC pattern
-
Heh, my boss' wife has/had a note "time doesn't exist" stuck above her desk. She was convinced but couldn't explain - it seems it was one of those ideas that simply makes things fit when you discuss them with the right people, but you cannot recreate that feeling. Anyway, to come to a point: When we were discussing release schedules lately, and she asked "how long will this take?" I (honestly) said: "I don't know - but time doesn't exist anyway", pointing at the note. She wasn't impressed.
Marc Clifton wrote:
continuous
Why continuous? :big evil grin:
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
My first real C# project | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighistpeterchen wrote:
my boss' wife has/had a note "time doesn't exist" stuck above her desk
There was a guy I went to school with who used to say "Time is something we (man) created to stop from going insane"
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
-
peterchen wrote:
my boss' wife has/had a note "time doesn't exist" stuck above her desk
There was a guy I went to school with who used to say "Time is something we (man) created to stop from going insane"
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
Thunderbox666 wrote:
"Time is something we (man) created to stop from going insane"
In that case it didn't help much :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
Thunderbox666 wrote:
"Time is something we (man) created to stop from going insane"
In that case it didn't help much :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne MetcalfeLOL touche'
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
-
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Then why is time subject to relativistic effects?
Is time subject to relativistic effects? I thought it was our clocks, and our frame of observation, that was subject to relativistic effects. So, if I'm on a rocket ship travelling near the speed of light, my perception of time and my clocks still make sense to me. But observers will see me differently. I would say that relativity fits in with my theory (though I can't explain adequately how) other than that state change is relative to the observer. :) Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
if I'm on a rocket ship travelling near the speed of light, my perception of time and my clocks still make sense to me. But observers will see me differently.
Yes. All depends on the frame of reference between you and the observers.
"I guess it's what separates the professionals from the drag and drop, girly wirly, namby pamby, wishy washy, can't code for crap types." - Pete O'Hanlon
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
I am far to tired to actually make sense of this lol... you sound like you know what your talking about so I will believe you. Besides, it cant be any worse then that time i bought volcano insurance........
"There are three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth" ~ unknown
-
All right, you convinced me. So, now I don't have to make credit card payments, mortgage payments, car, etc., right? :) ...weeks, months and years don't pass :)
David Lockwood wrote:
So, now I don't have to make credit card payments, mortgage payments, car, etc., right?
Ah, well, I think we share our "state of debt" in common. :) Unfortunately, there are other forces at work other than subatomic ones, hehehe. Marc
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
There is no such thing as time
I beg to differ. As someone who has (involuntarily) ingested milk that has long since passed its expiry date, I assure you there is indeed something called time - the passage of which can be very detrimental to your morning coffee. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Music | Articles | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the
Objects exist within space. We measure the distance between objects using human defined scales. "State changes" exist within time. We measure the rate of those changes also using human defined scales. Erm, and just to add, in the end we're not just talking about space or time but space-time. :)
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
There is no such thing as time
Damn, if only had i thought of that when my physics teacher had said my work was late. Infact, the discussion on the matter would probably have taken up the lesson too. Ah, back in the day, we never really did any work in those physicis lessons... at least i didn't anyway :~
My current favourite word is: Bauble!
-SK Genius
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
There is no such thing as time
I beg to differ. As someone who has (involuntarily) ingested milk that has long since passed its expiry date, I assure you there is indeed something called time - the passage of which can be very detrimental to your morning coffee. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Music | Articles | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
the passage of which can be very detrimental to your morning coffee.
No, no--that's just a different state. Nothing temporal has happened, only a state transition. :) Marc
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
Then money doesn't exist either? (Time == Money)
Marc Clifton wrote:
the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied.
From where?
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the
Objects exist within space. We measure the distance between objects using human defined scales. "State changes" exist within time. We measure the rate of those changes also using human defined scales. Erm, and just to add, in the end we're not just talking about space or time but space-time. :)
Leslie Sanford wrote:
"State changes" exist within time.
Ah, that's where I disagree. State exists without time.
Leslie Sanford wrote:
We measure the rate of those changes also using human defined scales.
The measuring the rate of those changes is a purely subjective experience of state change, which we call "the passage of time". :) Marc
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
Have you ever read "Critique of Pure Reason" by Immanuel Kant? If not, I believe that this would be a book that you'd enjoy. Kant's main goals are 1) describe how humans interact with the reality, 2) describe how (and how far) can humans "know" this reality, and 3) try to find a way outside the knowledge itself (science) in which humans can "know" about metaphyisical concepts (liberty, love, God, soul, etc). The interesting thing (and related to your post) is that Kant finds out that human perception of things (our reality) is tightly bounded to both space and time. He states that human nature per se needs both space and time in order to function. In other words, you cannot think about anything without implying both space and time. Furthermore, he states that both concepts are the same since both imply each other (and he did so 124 years before Einstein's theory, by the way). For instance, if I tell you "book" you'll imagine a book in your mind, but you'll imagine it with a width and length, and there you imply the space. In a similar way, every time you use a verb you imagine the action itself, but it has by definition both a start and an end, thus implying time. Kant's conclusion is that, therefore, we humans can know things within space and time, but other things that may (or may not) exist outside both, we can not hope to know them, thus making any metaphysical concept (such as the ideas of love or liberty) unreachable as knowledge, and we can only believe (or not) in them. In other words, we're not able to imagine things outside space and time, and since both determine our reality, from our (subjective) point of view both space and time exists, since denying any of them would be denying our own reality. But then again (I think), it is possible that time is an illusion of human mind, but as far as we're concerned, we need it as a real thing in order to understand reality.
Stupidity is an International Association - Enrique Jardiel Poncela
-
Have you ever read "Critique of Pure Reason" by Immanuel Kant? If not, I believe that this would be a book that you'd enjoy. Kant's main goals are 1) describe how humans interact with the reality, 2) describe how (and how far) can humans "know" this reality, and 3) try to find a way outside the knowledge itself (science) in which humans can "know" about metaphyisical concepts (liberty, love, God, soul, etc). The interesting thing (and related to your post) is that Kant finds out that human perception of things (our reality) is tightly bounded to both space and time. He states that human nature per se needs both space and time in order to function. In other words, you cannot think about anything without implying both space and time. Furthermore, he states that both concepts are the same since both imply each other (and he did so 124 years before Einstein's theory, by the way). For instance, if I tell you "book" you'll imagine a book in your mind, but you'll imagine it with a width and length, and there you imply the space. In a similar way, every time you use a verb you imagine the action itself, but it has by definition both a start and an end, thus implying time. Kant's conclusion is that, therefore, we humans can know things within space and time, but other things that may (or may not) exist outside both, we can not hope to know them, thus making any metaphysical concept (such as the ideas of love or liberty) unreachable as knowledge, and we can only believe (or not) in them. In other words, we're not able to imagine things outside space and time, and since both determine our reality, from our (subjective) point of view both space and time exists, since denying any of them would be denying our own reality. But then again (I think), it is possible that time is an illusion of human mind, but as far as we're concerned, we need it as a real thing in order to understand reality.
Stupidity is an International Association - Enrique Jardiel Poncela
Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:
time is an illusion
"... lunchtime doubly so." -- Douglas Adams
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
So what you're suggesting is that the universe changes (OK, let's get technical: Entropy increases monotonically) as some measurable reference value changes. Suits me. How about we call this measurable reference quantity "Time". It'll save paper when it comes to rewriting physics. (Hint: Don't think of time as separate from space)
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
"Time is an illusion - lunchtime doubly so" - Slartibartfast, in The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy Enough said, really. :rolleyes:
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
modified on Monday, January 07, 2008 1:19:11 AM
-
So what you're suggesting is that the universe changes (OK, let's get technical: Entropy increases monotonically) as some measurable reference value changes. Suits me. How about we call this measurable reference quantity "Time". It'll save paper when it comes to rewriting physics. (Hint: Don't think of time as separate from space)
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Isn't that rephrasing exactly what Marc stated?
-
Speaking of physics... I've come the idea (probably not original, but I never read the works of the great or not so great philosophers), that time is merely a subjective concept created by the human brain to relate to state changes. There is no such thing as time, rather, the universe simply undergoes a continuous set of state changes as a result of forces being applied. Time is something we create to describe the relationship of those different states according to some, undefined, master reference. The master reference isn't time, it's a metastate change, much like your CPU is driven by the state changes in the oscillator. :) Marc
Imagine a closed system, where the objects inside it change their states (position, temperature, etc). We describe the state changes that take place by relating to the notion of time, like for example speed = d(distance) / d(time) (d - differential). Now, one can think that no state changes happen in this system, then the notion of time is irrelevant, as there are no state changes, thus no way to notice passage of time. But I ask you: is it possible to have such a system where absolutely nothing changes? The answer is NO. There are some things which can never be stopped like the Brownian movement or the electrons revolving around the nuclei of atoms. In theory, these can also be 'frozen' in a system where the temperature is ABSOLUTE ZERO (-273.15 C IIRC), but then again it has been proven that absolute zero is unreachable in practice. So, time exists! Good mental gymnastics, though. Have you seen the movie 'What the #$^@ do we know?' It's a part-fiction part-documentary dealing with quantum physics, philosophy and bio-chemistry.