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  3. Save Windows XP!

Save Windows XP!

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  • M Mike Dimmick

    The trade magazine InfoWorld has launched a Save Windows XP[^] petition. OEM and shrink-wrapped copies of Windows XP will be withdrawn as of 30 June 2008. I have nothing against Windows Vista. I'm running it at home. But compatibility issues with the tools I use every day as a developer mean that I cannot run Windows Vista at work, and withdrawing the OS that they do work on will break me in future. In the end I imagine I will need to keep a spare machine to maintain projects using these tools, or perhaps a virtual machine (but I'll need to obtain VMware Workstation for USB device virtualization, which Virtual PC doesn't do). What tools? Microsoft's own. eMbedded Visual C++ 3.0 and 4.0, and Visual Studio .NET 2003 (mostly works, but not supported).

    DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991

    J Offline
    J Offline
    Joe Woodbury
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    Time to get over it and move on. Nobody is stopping you from using XP or buying used copies. I still remember people insisting on running MS-DOS 4.2 long after Windows 95 came out.

    Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke

    R 1 Reply Last reply
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    • M Mike Dimmick

      The trade magazine InfoWorld has launched a Save Windows XP[^] petition. OEM and shrink-wrapped copies of Windows XP will be withdrawn as of 30 June 2008. I have nothing against Windows Vista. I'm running it at home. But compatibility issues with the tools I use every day as a developer mean that I cannot run Windows Vista at work, and withdrawing the OS that they do work on will break me in future. In the end I imagine I will need to keep a spare machine to maintain projects using these tools, or perhaps a virtual machine (but I'll need to obtain VMware Workstation for USB device virtualization, which Virtual PC doesn't do). What tools? Microsoft's own. eMbedded Visual C++ 3.0 and 4.0, and Visual Studio .NET 2003 (mostly works, but not supported).

      DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991

      R Offline
      R Offline
      Rei Miyasaka
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      More FUD. IT press just gets stupider and stupider. For god's sakes, Windows XP is probably the longest supported OS in a long time by any vendor. If you're seriously afraid of losing your XP CD then just make a damn copy of it. There's no copy protection, and if you need XP, chances are you already have a copy of it, unless you're pirating, in which case you don't need to "save" package-wrapped copies of XP. Sign my petition[^] against the IT press' bullshit about Vista compatibility issues instead.

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      • M Mike Dimmick

        The trade magazine InfoWorld has launched a Save Windows XP[^] petition. OEM and shrink-wrapped copies of Windows XP will be withdrawn as of 30 June 2008. I have nothing against Windows Vista. I'm running it at home. But compatibility issues with the tools I use every day as a developer mean that I cannot run Windows Vista at work, and withdrawing the OS that they do work on will break me in future. In the end I imagine I will need to keep a spare machine to maintain projects using these tools, or perhaps a virtual machine (but I'll need to obtain VMware Workstation for USB device virtualization, which Virtual PC doesn't do). What tools? Microsoft's own. eMbedded Visual C++ 3.0 and 4.0, and Visual Studio .NET 2003 (mostly works, but not supported).

        DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991

        D Offline
        D Offline
        DaveX86
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        You can write a Windows program in just about any language...I'm looking at Digital Mars D Language [^]these days

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • R Rei Miyasaka

          More FUD. IT press just gets stupider and stupider. For god's sakes, Windows XP is probably the longest supported OS in a long time by any vendor. If you're seriously afraid of losing your XP CD then just make a damn copy of it. There's no copy protection, and if you need XP, chances are you already have a copy of it, unless you're pirating, in which case you don't need to "save" package-wrapped copies of XP. Sign my petition[^] against the IT press' bullshit about Vista compatibility issues instead.

          J Offline
          J Offline
          Jim Crafton
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          Actually no. OpenVMS has longer support. Of course it's expensive as hell, but you get what you pay for.

          ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog

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          • J Jim Crafton

            Actually no. OpenVMS has longer support. Of course it's expensive as hell, but you get what you pay for.

            ¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog

            R Offline
            R Offline
            Rei Miyasaka
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            Jim Crafton wrote:

            Actually no. OpenVMS has longer support. Of course it's expensive as hell, but you get what you pay for.

            Red herring.

            J 1 Reply Last reply
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            • M Mike Dimmick

              The trade magazine InfoWorld has launched a Save Windows XP[^] petition. OEM and shrink-wrapped copies of Windows XP will be withdrawn as of 30 June 2008. I have nothing against Windows Vista. I'm running it at home. But compatibility issues with the tools I use every day as a developer mean that I cannot run Windows Vista at work, and withdrawing the OS that they do work on will break me in future. In the end I imagine I will need to keep a spare machine to maintain projects using these tools, or perhaps a virtual machine (but I'll need to obtain VMware Workstation for USB device virtualization, which Virtual PC doesn't do). What tools? Microsoft's own. eMbedded Visual C++ 3.0 and 4.0, and Visual Studio .NET 2003 (mostly works, but not supported).

              DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991

              L Offline
              L Offline
              Luis Alonso Ramos
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              I don't know about Embedded VC++, but I have used VS.NET 2003 on Vista enough time and have not had a single problem. Probably a spare machine is the way to go. For sure you have an old machine somewhere, don't you? :)

              Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico

              My Blog!

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • M Mike Dimmick

                The trade magazine InfoWorld has launched a Save Windows XP[^] petition. OEM and shrink-wrapped copies of Windows XP will be withdrawn as of 30 June 2008. I have nothing against Windows Vista. I'm running it at home. But compatibility issues with the tools I use every day as a developer mean that I cannot run Windows Vista at work, and withdrawing the OS that they do work on will break me in future. In the end I imagine I will need to keep a spare machine to maintain projects using these tools, or perhaps a virtual machine (but I'll need to obtain VMware Workstation for USB device virtualization, which Virtual PC doesn't do). What tools? Microsoft's own. eMbedded Visual C++ 3.0 and 4.0, and Visual Studio .NET 2003 (mostly works, but not supported).

                DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991

                F Offline
                F Offline
                Fernando A Gomez F
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                Mike Dimmick wrote:

                What tools? Microsoft's own. eMbedded Visual C++ 3.0 and 4.0

                As for these, I'd strongly recommend you to upgrade, perhaps to Visual C++ 8. Both IDEs' compilers are based on VC++6, so we're talking about a 10 year old compiler. Not to mention that they're pre-standard, and new SDKs for the machines (Intermec, Symbol iPaq) for Mobile 5 and Mobile 6 are being distributed for VC++8.

                Stupidity is an International Association - Enrique Jardiel Poncela

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                • R Rei Miyasaka

                  More FUD. IT press just gets stupider and stupider. For god's sakes, Windows XP is probably the longest supported OS in a long time by any vendor. If you're seriously afraid of losing your XP CD then just make a damn copy of it. There's no copy protection, and if you need XP, chances are you already have a copy of it, unless you're pirating, in which case you don't need to "save" package-wrapped copies of XP. Sign my petition[^] against the IT press' bullshit about Vista compatibility issues instead.

                  P Offline
                  P Offline
                  peterchen
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  At it's core it's forced adaption of Vista, by removing consumer choice when buying a new PC. It's arguable if this is good or bad, right or wrong. Still, I am not looking forward to our users moving to Vista, and I guess I share that with some people in the industry. I have no figures comparing that to the initial woes of XP, and though the topics are similar there seem to be more technical reasons not to adapt. My gut feeling is that Vista will be the ME of the new millenium: one of the things that when mentioned makes everyone giggle, then nervously move on to another topic. And during ME times, there was Windows 2000 as "serious" alternative, and more affordable than 2003 is now.

                  We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
                  blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist

                  R 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Mike Dimmick

                    The trade magazine InfoWorld has launched a Save Windows XP[^] petition. OEM and shrink-wrapped copies of Windows XP will be withdrawn as of 30 June 2008. I have nothing against Windows Vista. I'm running it at home. But compatibility issues with the tools I use every day as a developer mean that I cannot run Windows Vista at work, and withdrawing the OS that they do work on will break me in future. In the end I imagine I will need to keep a spare machine to maintain projects using these tools, or perhaps a virtual machine (but I'll need to obtain VMware Workstation for USB device virtualization, which Virtual PC doesn't do). What tools? Microsoft's own. eMbedded Visual C++ 3.0 and 4.0, and Visual Studio .NET 2003 (mostly works, but not supported).

                    DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991

                    C Offline
                    C Offline
                    Chris Maunder
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    Why don't they do something useful and launch a "Fix Vista!" campaign instead of a stupid regressive "Save Windows XP". Vista is a better OS than XP but is marred by its UI and driver/application compatibility issues. Campaign companies selling apps that aren't compatible with Vista to provide a service pack. Campaign hardware manufactures to once and for all start writing decent software to go with their devices. Campaign Microsoft to stop training everyone to click warning dialogs without reading them and provide an innovative solution to security. But throwing out something and going back to "The Good Old Days" is stupid. Encourage the best out of a company but don't make them afraid to innovate.

                    cheers, Chris Maunder

                    CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                    P M G C 4 Replies Last reply
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                    • R Rei Miyasaka

                      More FUD. IT press just gets stupider and stupider. For god's sakes, Windows XP is probably the longest supported OS in a long time by any vendor. If you're seriously afraid of losing your XP CD then just make a damn copy of it. There's no copy protection, and if you need XP, chances are you already have a copy of it, unless you're pirating, in which case you don't need to "save" package-wrapped copies of XP. Sign my petition[^] against the IT press' bullshit about Vista compatibility issues instead.

                      P Offline
                      P Offline
                      Paul Watson
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      I gave you a 2 because you forget about all the non-technical people out there who will be affected by a forced adoption of Windows Vista.

                      regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                      Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                      At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                      R R 2 Replies Last reply
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                      • M Mike Dimmick

                        The trade magazine InfoWorld has launched a Save Windows XP[^] petition. OEM and shrink-wrapped copies of Windows XP will be withdrawn as of 30 June 2008. I have nothing against Windows Vista. I'm running it at home. But compatibility issues with the tools I use every day as a developer mean that I cannot run Windows Vista at work, and withdrawing the OS that they do work on will break me in future. In the end I imagine I will need to keep a spare machine to maintain projects using these tools, or perhaps a virtual machine (but I'll need to obtain VMware Workstation for USB device virtualization, which Virtual PC doesn't do). What tools? Microsoft's own. eMbedded Visual C++ 3.0 and 4.0, and Visual Studio .NET 2003 (mostly works, but not supported).

                        DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991

                        P Offline
                        P Offline
                        Paul Watson
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        Mike Dimmick wrote:

                        I have nothing against Windows Vista ... But compatibility issues with the tools I use every day

                        Nothing against it eh? :laugh: "I've nothing against Stalin, he just killed my whole family!"

                        regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                        Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                        At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                        C 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • C Chris Maunder

                          Why don't they do something useful and launch a "Fix Vista!" campaign instead of a stupid regressive "Save Windows XP". Vista is a better OS than XP but is marred by its UI and driver/application compatibility issues. Campaign companies selling apps that aren't compatible with Vista to provide a service pack. Campaign hardware manufactures to once and for all start writing decent software to go with their devices. Campaign Microsoft to stop training everyone to click warning dialogs without reading them and provide an innovative solution to security. But throwing out something and going back to "The Good Old Days" is stupid. Encourage the best out of a company but don't make them afraid to innovate.

                          cheers, Chris Maunder

                          CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                          P Offline
                          P Offline
                          Paul Watson
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          I think your sentiment is good but the reality is Vista won't be fixed by 30 June 2008 whether we campaign or not. Until Microsoft have fixed Vista and driver makers have caught up it would be good to retain the option of Windows XP. Should I buy a desktop this year I don't want Vista on it and I want to be able to put Windows XP on it. If they yank the CDs then I'll be hunting around for illegal sources. (Microsoft of course can do whatever they bloody well like. I don't think it is an obligation they have and we are all seriously deluded if we think it is. So they can weather the storm and keep pumping a broken Vista in the hope that long-term it pays off or they can extend Windows XP now, sell some more, hurt Vista in the short-term but possibly retain users who are on the verge of switching to another operating system. Users who might choose a fixed Vista were it available.)

                          regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                          Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                          At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • P Paul Watson

                            Mike Dimmick wrote:

                            I have nothing against Windows Vista ... But compatibility issues with the tools I use every day

                            Nothing against it eh? :laugh: "I've nothing against Stalin, he just killed my whole family!"

                            regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                            Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                            At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                            C Offline
                            C Offline
                            Chris Maunder
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #15

                            Careful, you're getting awful close to Godwin's law :)

                            cheers, Chris Maunder

                            CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                            P 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • C Chris Maunder

                              Careful, you're getting awful close to Godwin's law :)

                              cheers, Chris Maunder

                              CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                              P Offline
                              P Offline
                              Paul Watson
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #16

                              :-O "I've nothing against Mac OS X, all it did was delete a weeks code!"

                              regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                              Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                              At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • P peterchen

                                At it's core it's forced adaption of Vista, by removing consumer choice when buying a new PC. It's arguable if this is good or bad, right or wrong. Still, I am not looking forward to our users moving to Vista, and I guess I share that with some people in the industry. I have no figures comparing that to the initial woes of XP, and though the topics are similar there seem to be more technical reasons not to adapt. My gut feeling is that Vista will be the ME of the new millenium: one of the things that when mentioned makes everyone giggle, then nervously move on to another topic. And during ME times, there was Windows 2000 as "serious" alternative, and more affordable than 2003 is now.

                                We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
                                blog: TDD - the Aha! | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighist

                                R Offline
                                R Offline
                                Rei Miyasaka
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                peterchen wrote:

                                At it's core it's forced adaption of Vista, by removing consumer choice when buying a new PC.

                                No product is on the shelves forever. Get over it. This isn't a money-making scheme more than the very existence of any product is. It's not just Microsoft that's dumping XP; hardware vendors are too[^], and for good reason: XP is old. If this petition succeeds are you going to be complaining 10 years from now that Microsoft's not giving people the choice to buy XP? Where do you draw the line?

                                peterchen wrote:

                                I have no figures comparing that to the initial woes of XP, and though the topics are similar there seem to be more technical reasons not to adapt.

                                There is a lot of bullshit[^] flying around. The press has hardly any clue what it's talking about, and they constantly exaggerate[^] "technical reasons" to avoid Vista like the plague. You have no figures comparing the woes of XP to Vista's. What you do have is extreme peer pressure on behalf of your friends and the rest of the industry to talk shit about Vista. At the same time, I have figures that show the bullshit around XP[^] was probably just as bad as the bullshit around Vista, just not as vocalized simply due to the fact that there was a better distinction between "blogs" and "news" back then. The fundamental retardedness of the information out there is the same.

                                peterchen wrote:

                                My gut feeling is that Vista will be the ME of the new millenium: one of the things that when mentioned makes everyone giggle, then nervously move on to another topic.

                                My gut feeling is that you

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                                • P Paul Watson

                                  I gave you a 2 because you forget about all the non-technical people out there who will be affected by a forced adoption of Windows Vista.

                                  regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                                  Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                                  At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                                  R Offline
                                  R Offline
                                  Rei Miyasaka
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #18

                                  Said people won't care what OS they're using, so long as it lets them read their email and browse YouTube and Facebook out-of-the-box and runs MS Word and doesn't cost more than $500. Vista does this possibly better but not any worse than XP. I mean, come on, how many people out there do you think there'll be that are going to have thrown out or lost their copy of XP, not know anyone else that has it, all while having the savviness to buy a copy of XP then format their hard drive and install it? It's not as if WGA is no longer activating Windows XP, nor is it as if OEM is being discontinued. So please realize that the IT press just wanted to pretend Microsoft is a child killer so that more people would read their garbage.

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                                  • R Rei Miyasaka

                                    Said people won't care what OS they're using, so long as it lets them read their email and browse YouTube and Facebook out-of-the-box and runs MS Word and doesn't cost more than $500. Vista does this possibly better but not any worse than XP. I mean, come on, how many people out there do you think there'll be that are going to have thrown out or lost their copy of XP, not know anyone else that has it, all while having the savviness to buy a copy of XP then format their hard drive and install it? It's not as if WGA is no longer activating Windows XP, nor is it as if OEM is being discontinued. So please realize that the IT press just wanted to pretend Microsoft is a child killer so that more people would read their garbage.

                                    P Offline
                                    P Offline
                                    Paul Watson
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #19

                                    reinux wrote:

                                    I mean, come on, how many people out there do you think there'll be that are going to have thrown out or lost their copy of XP, not know anyone else that has it, all while having the savviness to buy a copy of XP then format their hard drive and install it?

                                    Like I said. I don't have a Windows XP CD. Should I buy a desktop this year I would want to put Windows XP on it, not Vista. Without access to a Windows XP CD I will end up downloading from some torrent and installing from there.

                                    reinux wrote:

                                    Vista does this possibly better but not any worse than XP.

                                    We will have to agree to disagree about that. Vista has a lot of UI problems that making using it a pain. Windows XP is stable, the UI works and people already know it. It is hard to miss all the bad Vista press.

                                    regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                                    Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                                    At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                                    R 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • P Paul Watson

                                      reinux wrote:

                                      I mean, come on, how many people out there do you think there'll be that are going to have thrown out or lost their copy of XP, not know anyone else that has it, all while having the savviness to buy a copy of XP then format their hard drive and install it?

                                      Like I said. I don't have a Windows XP CD. Should I buy a desktop this year I would want to put Windows XP on it, not Vista. Without access to a Windows XP CD I will end up downloading from some torrent and installing from there.

                                      reinux wrote:

                                      Vista does this possibly better but not any worse than XP.

                                      We will have to agree to disagree about that. Vista has a lot of UI problems that making using it a pain. Windows XP is stable, the UI works and people already know it. It is hard to miss all the bad Vista press.

                                      regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                                      Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                                      At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                                      R Offline
                                      R Offline
                                      Rei Miyasaka
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #20

                                      Paul Watson wrote:

                                      Without access to a Windows XP CD I will end up downloading from some torrent and installing from there.

                                      Then do that. That's my point. Anyone who would even bother to format their computer and install Windows from CD will have access to XP somehow or another. If you buy a new computer you can still get the OEM version of Windows, which is cheaper, and because now Windows XP is not being supported either, is of the same value as the retail versions. The only perk of having a retail copy of XP used to be that Microsoft offered tech support for it.

                                      Paul Watson wrote:

                                      It is hard to miss all the bad Vista press.

                                      Argumentum ad nauseum[^].

                                      P 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • R Rei Miyasaka

                                        Paul Watson wrote:

                                        Without access to a Windows XP CD I will end up downloading from some torrent and installing from there.

                                        Then do that. That's my point. Anyone who would even bother to format their computer and install Windows from CD will have access to XP somehow or another. If you buy a new computer you can still get the OEM version of Windows, which is cheaper, and because now Windows XP is not being supported either, is of the same value as the retail versions. The only perk of having a retail copy of XP used to be that Microsoft offered tech support for it.

                                        Paul Watson wrote:

                                        It is hard to miss all the bad Vista press.

                                        Argumentum ad nauseum[^].

                                        P Offline
                                        P Offline
                                        Paul Watson
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #21

                                        I know plenty of non-technical people who went out and bought Windows 95 on CD and installed it themselves onto their existing computers. I know plenty of non-technical people who did the same thing when Windows XP came out. Now that Vista is out I don't want those people to loose the option of Windows XP.

                                        reinux wrote:

                                        Then do that. That's my point. Anyone who would even bother to format their computer and install Windows from CD will have access to XP somehow or another.

                                        Yes, illegally. A torrent of Windows XP is illegal. I know of no Microsoft approved torrent source for Windows XP. Do you?

                                        regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                                        Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                                        At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                                        R 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • P Paul Watson

                                          I know plenty of non-technical people who went out and bought Windows 95 on CD and installed it themselves onto their existing computers. I know plenty of non-technical people who did the same thing when Windows XP came out. Now that Vista is out I don't want those people to loose the option of Windows XP.

                                          reinux wrote:

                                          Then do that. That's my point. Anyone who would even bother to format their computer and install Windows from CD will have access to XP somehow or another.

                                          Yes, illegally. A torrent of Windows XP is illegal. I know of no Microsoft approved torrent source for Windows XP. Do you?

                                          regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

                                          Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

                                          At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

                                          R Offline
                                          R Offline
                                          Rei Miyasaka
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #22

                                          Now that Vista is out I don't want those people to loose the option of Windows XP.

                                          I just explained why that isn't happening, and now you're just appealing to emotion.

                                          Paul Watson wrote:

                                          Yes, illegally. A torrent of Windows XP is illegal. I know of no Microsoft approved torrent source for Windows XP. Do you?

                                          I know of none that Microsoft has bothered to shut down. It doesn't matter where the hell you get your copy of XP; if you activate it on WGA, it's perfectly legitimate. (And you save $5-$10 if you pirate it.) And again, torrents aren't the only place that you can get XP even after it gets taken off shelves. For god's sake, I've never seen so much fuss over someone discontinuing an old product. All this is is mass hysteria.

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