HTML 5 [modified]

[Rohde]

HTML 5 looks very nice. But there's no saying when it'll be ubiquitous enough for us web devs to target. Anyway, I like all the new tags; especially ,

, and

. Only, now we have like to competing standards XHTML 2 and HTML 5.

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"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

[Mustafa Ismail Mustafa]

Rohde wrote:

Anyway, I like all the new tags; especially , , and

Come again? Which tags? But I agree with you on the upcoming potential 'conflict' that will appear because of the two upcoming standards. Personally, I'm very excited about XHTML 2.0's new XForms and the ability to have almost any element as a link. [Edit] Whoa! :omg: The text I got in the email alert is: [quote] HTML 5 looks very nice. But there's no saying when it'll be ubiquitous enough for us web devs to target. Anyway, I like all the new tags; especially , , and . Only, now we have like to competing standards XHTML 2 and HTML 5. [endquote] which has very little in common with what's apparent on the web page. What's going on? :confused:

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

modified on Thursday, January 24, 2008 4:43:33 AM

[leppie]

Thanks, I found this quite funny. 3.4. Absent Elements ... The following elements are not in HTML 5 because their effect is purely presentational and therefore better handled by CSS: ... • font, although it is allowed when inserted by a WYSIWYG editor due to limitations in the state of the art in user interface for these editors. ;P

xacc.ide - now with IronScheme support
IronScheme - 1.0 alpha 1 out now

[leppie]

Also I see the style attribute is not valid on any tag except font! So no more inline styles. That seems counter productive, although I am not for inline styles, they are handy for testing stuff.

xacc.ide - now with IronScheme support
IronScheme - 1.0 alpha 1 out now

[Mustafa Ismail Mustafa]

leppie wrote:

That seems counter productive, although I am not for inline styles, they are handy for testing stuff.

Totally. Many a time that inline styles simplified debugging. Technically though you could create a CSS class directed at testing and you could apply that.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

[Dalek Dave]

How confusing is acronym? why is abbr better? One is a perfectly crumulent word describing a series of letters that make a word that stand for something else, the other is merely the forshortening of a word. They are NOT interchangable. NATO is and Acronym, not an abbreviation. I grant there are apocope and elisions, but even abbr is an abreviation, not an acronym. Why do people who do not have ENGLISH as their first language wish to bastardize it so readily?

------------------------------------ I try to appear cooler, by calling him Euler.

[Rohde]

Yeah what the hell happened? I didn't edit it. Thoguh, I did write three tags in standard HTML notation, that's probably what messed it up on the web. The tags I mentioned was the audio, video, and canvas tags.

---

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

[Mustafa Ismail Mustafa]

Rohde wrote:

I did write three tags in standard HTML notation

There's the answer.

Rohde wrote:

audio, video, and canvas tags

Yes. That should really help bring forward the multimedia in the internet, though they are quite late if you want my opinion. There are so many workarounds now that I don't know how much of an effect those new tags will affect.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

[Paul Watson]

Thanks Mustafa. Some needed elements but more importantly we can get back into a regular HTML change process rather than the stagnation of the past few years.

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

For the record, I got the link before I got the Code Project daily news.

Don't worry about that. I re-post links from the daily news all the time mainly to get discussions going which you can't get through the newsletter.

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

[Mustafa Ismail Mustafa]

Paul Watson wrote:

Some needed elements but more importantly we can get back into a regular HTML change process rather than the stagnation of the past few years.

True. I wonder though. I restate the point I made to Rohde, though on a more general scale, there are so many workarounds now that I don't know what sort of effect these late changes will affect. They are late. And like Leppie said, XHTML 2.0 is coming soon and there is a conflict of sorts that will appear. Primarily, I'm not a web developer but I do tons of it. I'm very attracted to multi-platform solutions and distributed systems. I'm hoping to see what the other guys think about this.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

[Paul Watson]

Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:

XHTML 2.0 is coming soon

Is that still a massive re-imagining of XHTML? I remember going through it when it was first mentioned and it looked like a nightmare. Yes, it had loads of "cool stuff" but it wasn't a 2.0 release, it was a whole new system. I haven't been keeping track lately but isn't the radical XHTML 2.0 plans why these other guys did HTML5? They thought XHTML 2.0 was too radical and that the web doesn't need it. Rather they said the web needs an iteration on HTML4 and to get back into regular HTML upgrades.

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

[Rohde]

Here's a nice small "VS" article comparing the two new standards. It's pretty short but gives you an idea about the new features in both of 'em. X/HTML 5 Versus XHTML 2[^]

---

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

[Rohde]

You might be right on the lateness issue. None the less I like that there's a standard way of doing it. It seems more future proof that way I think. :)

---

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

[Mustafa Ismail Mustafa]

Paul Watson wrote:

Is that still a massive re-imagining of XHTML? I remember going through it when it was first mentioned and it looked like a nightmare. Yes, it had loads of "cool stuff" but it wasn't a 2.0 release, it was a whole new system.

You're quite right, its a complete break from previous versions. In fact its not backwards compatible. Its got tons of new stuff that is totally cool, XForms is just one revolutionary change that I think would make things MUCH simpler.

Paul Watson wrote:

I haven't been keeping track lately but isn't the radical XHTML 2.0 plans why these other guys did HTML5? They thought XHTML 2.0 was too radical and that the web doesn't need it. Rather they said the web needs an iteration on HTML4 and to get back into regular HTML upgrades.

I don't know if one spurred the other. It sounds normal though. Some developers shouldn't be given a choice :rolleyes: Too many choice can make developers confused, causing them to spiral into an infinite loop, eventually burning out their synapses. Seriously though, I think its good that they're coming out with a standard way of doing things (even though its late) but I'm slightly worried as to what would happen to the future of the web. This makes for a good read: Clickety[^] and the ever present wikipedia entry: Clickety 2[^]

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

[Paul Watson]

Damn, not what I was hoping for. Sounds like many more years of conflict. Which do you think is the right path, HTML5 or XHTML 2?

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.

[Rohde]

The purist in me says XHTML 2, but the pragmatist says HTML 5. But honestly I'd be glad just one of them becomes THE standard. I'm so not looking forward to years of battle between these two competing standards.

---

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

[Mustafa Ismail Mustafa]

Rohde wrote:

But honestly I'd be glad just one of them becomes THE standard. I'm so not looking forward to years of battle between these two competing standards.

My point exactly. I wish some "visionary" would actually think of how they could merge the best of both.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

[leppie]

Paul Watson wrote:

Which do you think is the right path, HTML5 or XHTML 2?

HXTML 2.5 ;P

xacc.ide - now with IronScheme support
IronScheme - 1.0 alpha 1 out now

[Mustafa Ismail Mustafa]

Oh totally. Conformance to a standard (whatever the standard may be) is a wonderful thing. It instantly means that things become transportable. Look at Posix and XML.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rick Cook "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance." Ali ibn Abi Talib "Animadvertistine, ubicumque stes, fumum recta in faciem ferri?"

[Paul Watson]

I'm rooting for LeppieML

regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa

Fernando A. Gomez F. wrote:

At least he achieved immortality for a few years.