MSDN License
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I am close to buy the Visual Studio 2008 Professional with MSDN Premium subscription, to the price of 2500 USD (roughly 2500 CAD, so it is a good time for me to buy it). I was wondering if there are other, cheaper (but legal) channels to buy this subscription. Maybe through Code Project ?!?
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I am close to buy the Visual Studio 2008 Professional with MSDN Premium subscription, to the price of 2500 USD (roughly 2500 CAD, so it is a good time for me to buy it). I was wondering if there are other, cheaper (but legal) channels to buy this subscription. Maybe through Code Project ?!?
Have a look at SWI. They're a Microsoft "partner". In any case, they have an option for 3-year, renewable subscriptions for maybe $1500/yr for the premium. The subscriptions are all labeled "Visual Studio 2005", but as a subscriber you get all new/updated products during your subscription period. Of course, you can choose not to renew after your first year. My subscription is about 6-months old, and, so far, it's great. I just downloaded and installed VS 2008 a few weeks ago. Website: www.software-intl.com Good luck.
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I am close to buy the Visual Studio 2008 Professional with MSDN Premium subscription, to the price of 2500 USD (roughly 2500 CAD, so it is a good time for me to buy it). I was wondering if there are other, cheaper (but legal) channels to buy this subscription. Maybe through Code Project ?!?
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I am close to buy the Visual Studio 2008 Professional with MSDN Premium subscription, to the price of 2500 USD (roughly 2500 CAD, so it is a good time for me to buy it). I was wondering if there are other, cheaper (but legal) channels to buy this subscription. Maybe through Code Project ?!?
There are a few options. The cheapest is to join the Microsoft Empower ISV program[^], which will give you a a MSDN Premium membership for up to 5 developers at a cost of $375 for one year, with an option to renew for an additional year at the same price. 2 years max, and only one per "company". I say "company" because you don't have to actually be a company as far as I know. The other options are through resellers. For instance at Amazon, the price is $2299. You can also spelunk around in google's "froogle" system to find slightly cheaper prices.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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I am close to buy the Visual Studio 2008 Professional with MSDN Premium subscription, to the price of 2500 USD (roughly 2500 CAD, so it is a good time for me to buy it). I was wondering if there are other, cheaper (but legal) channels to buy this subscription. Maybe through Code Project ?!?
Le Centriste wrote:
I was wondering if there are other, cheaper (but legal) channels to buy this
Yeah, don't. :) The subscription is in many cases the most expensive way to get what you need as a developer. Buy Visual Studio Pro on it's own and any other software you absolutely need that's in the subscription separately from cheap but legal online shops. Update only when you absolutely have to. Unless you need a good chunk of the software that comes with a subscription take a close look at buying what you do need separately without a subscription. Remember to add in the cost of renewing it every year forever and keep in mind that often microsoft doesn't release any new software that you will need in the years that you have to pay for the renewal.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
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Le Centriste wrote:
I was wondering if there are other, cheaper (but legal) channels to buy this
Yeah, don't. :) The subscription is in many cases the most expensive way to get what you need as a developer. Buy Visual Studio Pro on it's own and any other software you absolutely need that's in the subscription separately from cheap but legal online shops. Update only when you absolutely have to. Unless you need a good chunk of the software that comes with a subscription take a close look at buying what you do need separately without a subscription. Remember to add in the cost of renewing it every year forever and keep in mind that often microsoft doesn't release any new software that you will need in the years that you have to pay for the renewal.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
John C wrote:
Yeah, don't.
Definately the cheapest... :rolleyes: Seriously, even at 2500 USD, this is less than buy separate pieces (VS.NET, BizTalk, SharePoint, SQL, Windows 2003, Office).
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That's not an MSDN license, although it does give you a few things that come with MSDN, but you have to be a college student too.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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I am close to buy the Visual Studio 2008 Professional with MSDN Premium subscription, to the price of 2500 USD (roughly 2500 CAD, so it is a good time for me to buy it). I was wondering if there are other, cheaper (but legal) channels to buy this subscription. Maybe through Code Project ?!?
Also, I forgot to mention, if you're a college student, or someone in your family is, you can get an Academic version of MSDN (same thing) for a discount. I think there's also a version for high school students too.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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Le Centriste wrote:
I was wondering if there are other, cheaper (but legal) channels to buy this
Yeah, don't. :) The subscription is in many cases the most expensive way to get what you need as a developer. Buy Visual Studio Pro on it's own and any other software you absolutely need that's in the subscription separately from cheap but legal online shops. Update only when you absolutely have to. Unless you need a good chunk of the software that comes with a subscription take a close look at buying what you do need separately without a subscription. Remember to add in the cost of renewing it every year forever and keep in mind that often microsoft doesn't release any new software that you will need in the years that you have to pay for the renewal.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
If all you need is Visual Studio, then you're right. But me, I use a *LOT* of the software, even if it's just to get a basic idea of what it does. Plus, all the operating systems are a great help with testing. It's also nice to get the early access to stuff when it's released on MSDN first. If you figure MSDN Pro + Office + Expression and other apps) + 1 Operating system, you're pretty damn close to the price alone, and that's not including stuff like SQL Server, and other tools.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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John C wrote:
Yeah, don't.
Definately the cheapest... :rolleyes: Seriously, even at 2500 USD, this is less than buy separate pieces (VS.NET, BizTalk, SharePoint, SQL, Windows 2003, Office).
It's not just 2500 usd, that's the whole point. It's, let's say hypothetically, 2500usd today, 1250usd in a year, 1250 usd the year after that etc etc. Also keep in mind that you are paying even when there is no new version of the products or when there is a new version but you no longer use that product etc. In the long run it can be false economy. The only way it makes economic sense is if you actually *need* a number of the products in the subscription and they are updated frequently by Microsoft. I'm not saying it never makes sense, I'm saying take a careful and realistic look at what you actually *need* and will need for years to come. Figure it out with a calculator, weighing the ongoing costs for renewing every year versus the probably new releases of the products and how many you are certain you will need against the price of just buying it off the shelf when and if you need it. I think a lot of smaller shops fall into the trap of the msdn subscription because they just want all those different products and can easily justify all sorts of reasons to have them but years later they find they never really used most of what was in the subscription and paid a fortune in renewal fees year after year but only used a fraction of what was in the subscription.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
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It's not just 2500 usd, that's the whole point. It's, let's say hypothetically, 2500usd today, 1250usd in a year, 1250 usd the year after that etc etc. Also keep in mind that you are paying even when there is no new version of the products or when there is a new version but you no longer use that product etc. In the long run it can be false economy. The only way it makes economic sense is if you actually *need* a number of the products in the subscription and they are updated frequently by Microsoft. I'm not saying it never makes sense, I'm saying take a careful and realistic look at what you actually *need* and will need for years to come. Figure it out with a calculator, weighing the ongoing costs for renewing every year versus the probably new releases of the products and how many you are certain you will need against the price of just buying it off the shelf when and if you need it. I think a lot of smaller shops fall into the trap of the msdn subscription because they just want all those different products and can easily justify all sorts of reasons to have them but years later they find they never really used most of what was in the subscription and paid a fortune in renewal fees year after year but only used a fraction of what was in the subscription.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
The things I really need are: - Visual Studio (2005 and 2008 at least) - Office - Windows 2003 - BizTalk Server (all releases because my clients don't all have the same version) - SQL Server - Commerce Server - SharePoint Those are all for dev purposes. Some of them come as trials, but not all, and those that are are limited in time (usually 4 months).
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Have a look at SWI. They're a Microsoft "partner". In any case, they have an option for 3-year, renewable subscriptions for maybe $1500/yr for the premium. The subscriptions are all labeled "Visual Studio 2005", but as a subscriber you get all new/updated products during your subscription period. Of course, you can choose not to renew after your first year. My subscription is about 6-months old, and, so far, it's great. I just downloaded and installed VS 2008 a few weeks ago. Website: www.software-intl.com Good luck.
This one is interesting. Thanks.
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If all you need is Visual Studio, then you're right. But me, I use a *LOT* of the software, even if it's just to get a basic idea of what it does. Plus, all the operating systems are a great help with testing. It's also nice to get the early access to stuff when it's released on MSDN first. If you figure MSDN Pro + Office + Expression and other apps) + 1 Operating system, you're pretty damn close to the price alone, and that's not including stuff like SQL Server, and other tools.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
But me, I use a *LOT* of the software, even if it's just to get a basic idea of what it does. Plus, all the operating systems are a great help with testing. It's also nice to get the early access to stuff when it's released on MSDN first.
Yikes, if that's all you're using it for that's hardly a justification is it? ;) YOu can download trials if you just want to get a feel for something. Most testing only involves a couple of os's, three at the most, often ones you need anyway to run servers or for workstations. Early access isn't good, it's a penalty, you've become a paying beta tester for Microsoft. Sql server comes free as sql express, no need to pay for it for development. Seriously everything you're saying I once said to justify the pricey MSDN universal that we carried over for many years, I remember thinking wow we get *all* this stuff, it seemed crazy not to subscribe but in the end it was a collosal waste of money because we barely used most of the products in it and a lot of them we did use really couldn't be justified financially as there were cheaper alternatives that were just as useful. As a small business person I just can't justify wasting any money and it doesn't hurt to take a cold hard look at what you actually need, whip out a calculator and figure the costs either way factoring in the ongoing renewal fees and the potential for a product to *not* be updated in any given year you're paying still for the subscription.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
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The things I really need are: - Visual Studio (2005 and 2008 at least) - Office - Windows 2003 - BizTalk Server (all releases because my clients don't all have the same version) - SQL Server - Commerce Server - SharePoint Those are all for dev purposes. Some of them come as trials, but not all, and those that are are limited in time (usually 4 months).
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Well just keep in mind down the road to keep watching the costs and see if it's still justified to be renewing year after year, don't do it automatically without thinking about it.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
Good point. I have a lot of calculations to make now ;)
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There are a few options. The cheapest is to join the Microsoft Empower ISV program[^], which will give you a a MSDN Premium membership for up to 5 developers at a cost of $375 for one year, with an option to renew for an additional year at the same price. 2 years max, and only one per "company". I say "company" because you don't have to actually be a company as far as I know. The other options are through resellers. For instance at Amazon, the price is $2299. You can also spelunk around in google's "froogle" system to find slightly cheaper prices.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
There are a few options. The cheapest is to join the Microsoft Empower ISV program[^], which will give you a a MSDN Premium membership for up to 5 developers at a cost of $375 for one year, with an option to renew for an additional year at the same price. 2 years max, and only one per "company".
And you agree to release one packaged (i.e. it must be resellable and can't be produced for one customer specifically) commercial product within the program duration. By the way - anyone knows what happens if you don't do this? I couldn't find any information on the Internet so far.
Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^] Freelance services, outsourcing & consulting.
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It's not just 2500 usd, that's the whole point. It's, let's say hypothetically, 2500usd today, 1250usd in a year, 1250 usd the year after that etc etc. Also keep in mind that you are paying even when there is no new version of the products or when there is a new version but you no longer use that product etc. In the long run it can be false economy. The only way it makes economic sense is if you actually *need* a number of the products in the subscription and they are updated frequently by Microsoft. I'm not saying it never makes sense, I'm saying take a careful and realistic look at what you actually *need* and will need for years to come. Figure it out with a calculator, weighing the ongoing costs for renewing every year versus the probably new releases of the products and how many you are certain you will need against the price of just buying it off the shelf when and if you need it. I think a lot of smaller shops fall into the trap of the msdn subscription because they just want all those different products and can easily justify all sorts of reasons to have them but years later they find they never really used most of what was in the subscription and paid a fortune in renewal fees year after year but only used a fraction of what was in the subscription.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
After looking at some of the options, I chose to pay $699/year for the "pro" subscription. It's essentially "premium" without Office. Since I'm usually OK with an older version of Office apps, they can be purchased cheap (eg, eBay). The SWI (Software International) subscription price is the same for each of the 3 years. With the first-year price at $699, it's cheap insurance for me. If I plan to buy 2+ single items from Microsoft, it's breaking even right away. Another strong motivation for me is convenience... one-stop-shopping and downloadable updates. For example, I subscribed to VS 2005 pro, but when 2008 came out, I received those DVDs in the mail. If a client wants me to develop using the old VS Pro 6, I go download that. For someone doing development in a changing environment (eg, large company or free lance consulting), it seems to me the subscription cost quickly gets reasonable. If you need to write a purchase justification and wait 4-6wks for approval each time you add a .NET language or another operating system, buy a subscription! John C's point is well taken. Choose carefully. I'm perhaps a little more inclined toward a subscription, but I've probably subscribed in just 3 of the last 7 years. In other words, I'm somewhere between "don't do it" and "do it". BTW, the student and "product development" options are far cheaper and great for those that satisfy the right equirements. Good luck...
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Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
But me, I use a *LOT* of the software, even if it's just to get a basic idea of what it does. Plus, all the operating systems are a great help with testing. It's also nice to get the early access to stuff when it's released on MSDN first.
Yikes, if that's all you're using it for that's hardly a justification is it? ;) YOu can download trials if you just want to get a feel for something. Most testing only involves a couple of os's, three at the most, often ones you need anyway to run servers or for workstations. Early access isn't good, it's a penalty, you've become a paying beta tester for Microsoft. Sql server comes free as sql express, no need to pay for it for development. Seriously everything you're saying I once said to justify the pricey MSDN universal that we carried over for many years, I remember thinking wow we get *all* this stuff, it seemed crazy not to subscribe but in the end it was a collosal waste of money because we barely used most of the products in it and a lot of them we did use really couldn't be justified financially as there were cheaper alternatives that were just as useful. As a small business person I just can't justify wasting any money and it doesn't hurt to take a cold hard look at what you actually need, whip out a calculator and figure the costs either way factoring in the ongoing renewal fees and the potential for a product to *not* be updated in any given year you're paying still for the subscription.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
You can get free trials of some stuff, but not all of it. A lot of it you need to order CD's, and don't have a single place to get it at. Sql server comes free as sql express, no need to pay for it for development. While SQL Express is a nice product, saying this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the differences between the Express and real versions. For example, let's say you're developing an app that requires high performance. With SQL Express, you can't do any real benchmarking because it only lets you use one CPU, and 1 GB of RAM, nor is there a 64 bit version. Then there's the missing features, like Indexed views, no tools like profiling or query analyzer, etc.. SQL Express is fine for a website, but impossible to use for developing real enterprise apps. However, SQL Developer edition is only $45 but that's just adding to the list. And whether or not i'm a paying beta tester doesn't change the fact I need my software to work on new OS's *BEFORE* my clients get their hands on them.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
There are a few options. The cheapest is to join the Microsoft Empower ISV program[^], which will give you a a MSDN Premium membership for up to 5 developers at a cost of $375 for one year, with an option to renew for an additional year at the same price. 2 years max, and only one per "company".
And you agree to release one packaged (i.e. it must be resellable and can't be produced for one customer specifically) commercial product within the program duration. By the way - anyone knows what happens if you don't do this? I couldn't find any information on the Internet so far.
Kind regards, Pawel Krakowiak Miraculum Software[^] Freelance services, outsourcing & consulting.
There's really nothing they can do. I have a friend that signed up a few years ago, and after a year in development, the project basically went belly-up... nothing happened there. If you want to meet the terms, just release some utilities that you write... doesn't say it has to be a GOOD program ;)
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
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You can get free trials of some stuff, but not all of it. A lot of it you need to order CD's, and don't have a single place to get it at. Sql server comes free as sql express, no need to pay for it for development. While SQL Express is a nice product, saying this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the differences between the Express and real versions. For example, let's say you're developing an app that requires high performance. With SQL Express, you can't do any real benchmarking because it only lets you use one CPU, and 1 GB of RAM, nor is there a 64 bit version. Then there's the missing features, like Indexed views, no tools like profiling or query analyzer, etc.. SQL Express is fine for a website, but impossible to use for developing real enterprise apps. However, SQL Developer edition is only $45 but that's just adding to the list. And whether or not i'm a paying beta tester doesn't change the fact I need my software to work on new OS's *BEFORE* my clients get their hands on them.
-- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
saying this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the differences between the Express and real versions.
:rolleyes: Give me a fucking break.
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
SQL Express is fine for a website, but impossible to use for developing real enterprise apps.
Not everyone is developing enterprise apps and not everyone who is needs a full blown sql server for development, for testing perhaps but not for development. And what's you're point anyway? We're not all idiots here after all. If someone is developing enterprise apps I'm quite sure they know what they require and if someone doesn't know if they require it they probably don't but it's easy enough to find out. Saving money may not make sense to you in your world but where I come as the owner of a business it's simply ludicrous to throw money out the window for no good reason whatsoever. Rather than jumping all over me for being some kind of heretic perhaps read what I wrote which is to summarize: not everyone needs a full subscription, a subscription has ongoing costs that are often overlooked, not all products that you do need are updated every year but you're paying anyway and finally it's easy to make a checklist of what you need, add it up, factor in the costs up front and ongoing of a subscription and figure out which way is best to go. In super summary: A subscription is not always the most econmically feasible way to go.
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.