A career question
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a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
sacoskun wrote:
b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years)
Sounds fine, more years of parties, girls, drinking etc. .. or whatever students do these days. :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
sacoskun wrote:
b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years)
Sounds fine, more years of parties, girls, drinking etc. .. or whatever students do these days. :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne MetcalfeDoing PHD and working in Real world is impossible and I did that. The skills set of work and development have nothing in common with PHD. It will wear you out and do noting. It is like learning to be truthful at the same time trying to be a politician. They do not mix. Choose one and follow. Academic field is difficult and full with stratight A PHDs- who may not speak English but can write 1-1/2 mile long equautions. You have to decide what you want? Beer on Friday or 1-1/2 mile long equations. I feel I have wasted all the years learning BTECH,MSC,PHD for nothing. You communicate better by having no education- and will help you in marketing. Abstract concept pisses people and stops all forms of communication. Remember people communcate better at border line stupidity. I had to learn all of these in a very hard way. Before going to meeting I remember the following things: 1.0 Play dumb- purpose fully mispronouce words and use asian accent. 2.0 Communicate in a way that state clearly that you have knowledge at the level of moron , but can get the code done. And It works............. Cheers
Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 http://www.keencomputer.com
modified on Sunday, March 2, 2008 7:55 PM
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a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
sacoskun wrote:
b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years)
Definitely go for a PhD! It is fun and useful. The career can wait a little. jhaga
Recommended site: Parhaat yritykset
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sacoskun wrote:
b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years)
Definitely go for a PhD! It is fun and useful. The career can wait a little. jhaga
Recommended site: Parhaat yritykset
jhaga wrote:
It is fun and useful
Please explain how a PhD is useful. I've been a computer engineer with just a lowly B.S. for 24 years. In all that time I've not once met a software professional with a PhD who was not a college professor. Frankly, I don't believe there is a significant job market for software PhD's outside of universities.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
sacoskun wrote:
Of course there is no direct right way
Indeed. My advice, and the advice I've read over and over again, is do what you love to do. If you love the higher learning experience (not my cup of tea) go for the doctorate. Personally, I love learning outside of the classroom at my pace, studying what draws me, and learning what's relevant. Of course, there's a fair amount of kicking and screaming (like with WPF) but that's a personality flaw. The clients that I've worked with, I've never heard them say that a degree makes any difference, in fact, they tell me that more often than not, they prefer a more maverick, creative (whatever adjective works) non-degreed person. And dang, school is expensive! So, my personal advice is work to gain experience, but also do stuff outside of work that is both related to your professional interests and completely unrelated. Marc
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jhaga wrote:
It is fun and useful
Please explain how a PhD is useful. I've been a computer engineer with just a lowly B.S. for 24 years. In all that time I've not once met a software professional with a PhD who was not a college professor. Frankly, I don't believe there is a significant job market for software PhD's outside of universities.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Please explain how a PhD is useful.
If you are only going to program you don't need a degree. But for anybody interested in doing research a PhD is a must. And there are a lot of jobs outside the universities. Bioinformatics (where I have worked many years) needs software engineers with at least a master's degree. And if you want more options it is always a good investment to study som more years. jhaga
Recommended site: Parhaat yritykset
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sacoskun wrote:
b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years)
Sounds fine, more years of parties, girls, drinking etc. .. or whatever students do these days. :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfednh wrote:
Sounds fine, more years of parties, girls, drinking etc.
I don't want to speak for others, but ... :zzz: you know...
Homepage: TomasP.net | Photo of the month: Calendar | C# and LINQ, F#, Phalanger: My Blog
Latest article: Phalanger, PHP for .NET: Introduction for .NET developers -
dnh wrote:
Sounds fine, more years of parties, girls, drinking etc.
I don't want to speak for others, but ... :zzz: you know...
Homepage: TomasP.net | Photo of the month: Calendar | C# and LINQ, F#, Phalanger: My Blog
Latest article: Phalanger, PHP for .NET: Introduction for .NET developersWhadyamean? It's not my fault that nobody invites me :-\
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
jhaga wrote:
It is fun and useful
Please explain how a PhD is useful. I've been a computer engineer with just a lowly B.S. for 24 years. In all that time I've not once met a software professional with a PhD who was not a college professor. Frankly, I don't believe there is a significant job market for software PhD's outside of universities.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Please explain how a PhD is useful.
People will call you a doctor! Doctor Gary. How does it sound? :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
get a BS and jump right into the work force. that's what i did, anyway. worked out well for me. i've never heard anyone say they needed a developer with a post-grad degree. what employers really want are developers with work experience. of course, if you prefer the academic side of things, and want a post-grad degree, there are probably jobs out there where such a thing will help. but i'd say those jobs are the exception, rather than the rule.
Chris Losinger wrote:
what employers really want are developers with work experience.
Most bosses don't have a Ph.D., they probably feel bad for paying Ph.D. low wage, so they end up not hiring any Ph.D. which literally starved some Ph.D. to death. :-D I used to hide my Ph.D. when looking for a job. Once you get some real experience, it does not matter any more. People would say, "Ah, a Ph.D., nice".
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a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
I think it all depends on your personality. Once you started to work, it is very hard to get back to a Ph.D. program. Some people regret later in life for not getting a Ph.D. when they were young and full of energy.
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Please explain how a PhD is useful.
People will call you a doctor! Doctor Gary. How does it sound? :)
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfednh wrote:
People will call you a doctor!
Right. If they don't, I will remind them to. My name tag in office and my business card both say "Dr. Xiangyang Liu". :laugh:
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a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
If you were in a western country Canada/US/Europe I would say blow off programming all together and try get an MBA with a Project Management Certification. If you were in India/China/Former Soviet block your choices sound good. But you live in Turkey, and are in-between. The question is how does your compensation rates compare with the rent-a-coder people.?
MrPlankton
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a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
I'm currently working and getting my Masters degree. One day, maybe in 10 years time I hope to get my PhD. But that's because I have other motives. I worked along with some proffessors back duting my BSc days and I loved it, also, I personally want to teach at the university level. That's on the academic side. On the professional side, let me tell you, with the work I've had to face, bar the exception of the telecommunication protocols and the database design (even then not all of it) almost nothing came out of academia. You could easily see the connection, but practicality and common every day engineering and common sense got past the academic part of it. In the end, the focus that you're looking for is your choice and it is what will help you decide.
"Every time Lotus Notes starts up, somewhere a puppy, a kitten, a lamb, and a baby seal are killed. Lotus Notes is a conspiracy by the forces of Satan to drive us over the brink into madness. The CRC-32 for each file in the installation includes the numbers 666." Gary Wheeler "The secret to a long and healthy life is simple. Don't get ill and don't die." Pete O'Hanlon, courtesy of Rama "I realised that all of my best anecdotes started with "So there we were, pissed". Pete O'Hanlon
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a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
Experience weighs more than degrees however, nothing wins an argument faster than, "I got my PhD in Computer Science from X, where did you get yours". Other than being a pedantic a** experience should get you further.
Need a C# Consultant? I'm available.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway -
a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
I don't have a degree and I haven't had any problem finding work - but I was lucky enough to get experience right at the start of the big boom in the computer fields, when there were far too few people with degrees to fill all the positions everyone was trying to fill. I have no problems getting gigs without that degree. However, I'm working on my BS in IT right now, and I plan to go on to take an MBA with an IT Management specialization as soon as I'm through. Why? Because I've come to a point where I realize I want positions that are more focused on project management, and a lot of THOSE positions are actually shopping for people with degrees. Plus, while I've done a lot of hands-on, down and dirty learning over the years, I know that I've also done *targeted* learning. By that I mean that I've focused on the stuff I really needed to know at the time, and on practical application, without really taking much time to study the big picture or to understand the theory thoroughly. By taking courses, I'm getting a chance to gain that broader stroke of knowledege, and indulge my love of learning. Ph.D.? Nah, highly unlikely for me! I'd be more likely to go back and get another masters in something else than to torture myself with a doctorate program! Plus, as many others have said, a doctorate tends to make you either over-qualified or look too much like an academic (I know, it's silly - if you still have tons of experience on the resume that show you have real-world applied skills, it shouldn't matter, but still....)
Caffeine - it's what's for breakfast! (and lunch, and dinner, and...)
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a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
Unfortunately no one can answer your question except you. What do you want? Where do you see yourself? What is your ultimate goal? What are your immediate responsibilities? Have you researched what is needed? Start with small steps, you will get where you are going. Do you love to learn? Do you eventually want to teach? If you have the chance to do what you want - Go for it! Otherwise you might be a 40 year old, soon to be an upper level executive, wanting to be a rocket scientist, trying to figure out how accomplish your dream before time runs out to do something special with your life. It is easier to convince people around you that your dreams are valid when you are younger. As you get older the expectations change, and your find yourself living up to others expectations, instead of your own. Run to your dream, and don't let anything stop you. Plan your path, even if you take a detour, and you will have an interesting journey.
Joanne Cassick Current Accountant Finished my Accounting Degree, IT degree, and almost done with Business Degree
Albert Einstein "The important thing is not to stop questioning."
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Chris Losinger wrote:
what employers really want are developers with work experience.
Most bosses don't have a Ph.D., they probably feel bad for paying Ph.D. low wage, so they end up not hiring any Ph.D. which literally starved some Ph.D. to death. :-D I used to hide my Ph.D. when looking for a job. Once you get some real experience, it does not matter any more. People would say, "Ah, a Ph.D., nice".
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a.1)Having a master degree.(2 years) a.2)Working and gaining experience on the field rather than master.(2 years) a.3)Try to do both. b.1)Having a doctorate degree.(+5 years) b.2)Working and gaining experience on the field.(+5 years) b.3)Try to do both. Which way is the right way? Of course there is no direct right way but I would be happy if pros and cons are provided also.
Personally I think you should do what you want. I believe a higher education in a technical field is about as worthwhile as toilet paper when you get into the job market if you actually plan to do something rather than manage or teach or research something, wheras real world experience is priceless and will take you extremely far and the fundamentals can be learned in a much shorter period of time. Give me a stack of books and a couple of months and I could probably learn the equivalent of any masters degree, couple that with real world on the job experience and "Bob's your lobster" as they say. I'm sure many with degrees will vehemently disagree with me but I've found this to be true in the real world job market. If I'm hiring a programmer the one who has the real world experience gets the job *every* time over the one with the degree and no experience. In fact I wouldn't even consider the degreed programmer with no experience, I'd shred the resume and move on and even if they did have experience I'd be highly doubtful that they could ever fit in as a part of any team of people. All the people I know with degrees are far happier discussing things than actually getting the job done. But perhaps most importantly of all, if you are young it's a terrible mistake to go to university or college without getting some real world experience in...well in *anything* really. Take a few years to travel and or work at a variety of jobs, learn how to deal with people and be a well rounded human being then you will really appreciate higher learning and take full advantage of it and when you come out you will not be a socially retarded ivory tower git like some of the people that hang out here. ;)
When everyone is a hero no one is a hero.
modified on Monday, March 3, 2008 2:24 AM
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Xiangyang Liu wrote:
I used to hide my Ph.D. when looking for a job.
If you had to hide it, you were looking for the wrong kind of job.
Doing my part to piss off the religious right.