C#.Net developer

james_dixon_2008

Hi, 2 months to finish University. Now it's time to start looking for job. Well i have couple of questions for you all. 1.) I am interested in C#(.Net) but as a fact i never had any module of .NET in University. But i do have 1 yr experience in it. But the problem is that when i look for jobs related to .Net, agency people calls me and ask what all .Net technologies i know and this is tough now. Well i know learning ASP or VB won't be that hard but then i have to wait till i finish Uni and prepare myself. So can any one guide me what all .Net technologies are must to learn before i search for related job. And there are significant update in .Net technologies recently but i am still using VS2005, .NET 2. So do i have to update myself before i search and is there a much difference. So please guide me the right path and the list of .NET technologies i should know before looking for job. 2.) I have got 1 yr experience during my internship. Now one important question people ask all the time is what is my salary expectation. Well, to be very honest at the moment i don't have any idea what's the current ongoing rate for a graduate in .NET with 1 yr experience. So i just give vague reply. So what do you think that i should be looking for after i finish Uni in UK(Pounds pls.) ? or what can be the perfect reply...i guess it's not a good idea to say i am easy with it. And please be serious. :) 3.) What is the best way to prepare for the interview. And if i am going for C# job interview.. Can employer ask anything i have done in course like C++, Java etc or only the Object oriented stuff and question will be related to C# mainly...? Looking forward to hearing from you all.. Thank You James :)

Dario Solera

(Beware of companies that looks for C# developers and not software developers with experience in some specific platform.) In the interview they can ask whatever they want, but I'd take more seriously the interviewers that ask you generic OO design, data structures and algorithms questions. No one should really care if you don't remember the exact signature of the Socket constructor in C#. After that, it all depend on what kind of work you want. Anyway, The best way to learn a platform is to use it for a real project, in my opinion: you face real problems that must be solved with the tools the platform offers.

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Simon P Stevens

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

list of .NET technologies

There's a fair bit of new stuff since .NET 2.0. There's the 3.0 stuff (Windows presentation foundation (WPF), Windows communication foundation (WCF), Work flow foundation (WF) and card space). Then there's the 3.5 stuff (LINQ, Extension methods, lambda expressions, anonymous types, and various other bits and bobs). Honestly though, I don't think a decent employer will judge you on your knowledge of these new features. My first job was .net & a bit of vb6, of which I had zero experience in either. That said, it's always good to know what technologies exist and what they are.

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

So what do you think that I should be looking for after I finish Uni

My first job out of uni (3 years ago) paid 20k for .net & vb6 work. I didn't have any prior experience, but the two people employed alongside me did (1 year internships like you), and got paid the same. That was in Bedfordshire, You should obviously expect more in London.

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

What is the best way to prepare for the interview

Find out a little about the company. (What they make, policy's etc. no need to go overboard though). Other than that I've never really prepared for an interview unless asked for a pre-prepared presentation. Just relax and be yourself. Expect questions to be quite open ended, employers like to look for people that can think through a problem. You may get questions totally unrelated to programming, that are more about problem solving. You may be asked to do a short test. These are often simple and are just to check you can actually write code and aren't just blagging it. (e.g. write a program to sort this list into alphabetical order or something relatively simple like that). Non programming skills are also important, if you can show on your cv or in the interview experience of things like presenting to groups, teamwork, etc that is good. Don't be afraid to admit you don't know an answer. As a fresh graduate you won't be expected to know everything. If you don't know something, show an interest in finding out the answer. If it's a problem style question, and you can't figure it out, talk through your thought process so they can see how you approach the problem solving. With problem solving questions, it's more about how you get there than what the final answer is.

Colin Angus Mackay

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

So please guide me the right path and the list of .NET technologies i should know before looking for job.

There are so many, it depends on what job you are going for. Doesn't your university run some sort of graduate recruitment faires?

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

So what do you think that i should be looking for after i finish Uni in UK(Pounds pls.) ? or what can be the perfect reply...i guess it's not a good idea to say i am easy with it. And please be serious

Seriously, it depends where in the UK you are talking about. If you are good, don't accept anything below 20K. But the lower bound of what you should accept will vary where you go. London does not pay as well as it used to from what I've seen in the job adverts, so if you are currently living there you will enjoy a much higher standard of living by moving away.

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

Can employer ask anything i have done in course like C++, Java etc or only the Object oriented stuff and question will be related to C# mainly...?

When interviewing I ask questions based on what is in the CV. But it depends on the interviewer. You received some good advice already about detecting crappy interview questions. Take that onboard. You don't want to be working for numbnuts like those.

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Baconbutty

Not wishing to seem picky but... :) I hope you will write any letters, job interview requests and CVs using better English than you used in your original posting. I know forum and chat speak is very lax and WE all understand and accept this way of communicating, however, putting a different hat on as a prospective employer or interviewer, I would instantly put poorly written job applications in the "round filing cabinet" under my desk. The job market is seemingly awash with developers - don't make it easier for the recruiter to discard you by producing sloppy written work. If English isn't your native language get an English speaker to proof read your text. On a development front, from my recent experience at applying for C# jobs, when I mentioned my 12-18 months experience over the phone I could almost touch the tumbleweed rolling by. Emphasise your knowledge of underlying methodologies (horrid word!) and highlight your experience in dealing with difficult issues/bugs etc and how you worked round them. This shows the interviewer that you have come across REAL problems and dealt with them.

I still remember having to write your own code in FORTRAN rather than be a cut and paste merchant being pampered by colour coded Intellisense - ahh proper programming - those were the days :)

phannon86

Same as simon, although I've only been out of uni about 9 months. Been working as a Junior Software Engineer (largely doing C# development, some MFC) but neither of which I had any experience in, and barely any knowledge of, but my degree was heavily based on Java using nothing but textpad :), so I guess they thought I had a good grasp of OOP in general, and should be able to handle C# and being babysat by intellisense :) Started on 20k and my pay is currently under review after having completed my 6 months probationary, so hazaas are in order! :cool:

He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man

El Corazon

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

2.) I have got 1 yr experience during my internship. Now one important question people ask all the time is what is my salary expectation.

This is an important one, not just because your salary will be based roughly on your expectations. An employer is always looking for a bargain, a good employee at a very low price. If you undercut yourself, you are likely to mostly hurt yourself. Also, an employer is looking to see how much effort you have put into knowing your field. Whether you are right out of college, or 20 years experience, you should get out there and find out how much people are paying. Price hunt in the help wanted ads, browse monster.com, inspect US sites and convert currency (although this is usually a poor reference specifically for your job, it is always good to be aware of the whole business and your competition for any given job). See what others are asking at various experience levels, both as a job hunter and as a job offerer. This is one of the most overlooked questions for an employee. I started off at $5.25 an hour back in the 80's which was still low for a programmer, but when I quit 6 years later to look for another job, I was barely making 6.10 an hour. I asked for and got a raise at my next employer, though they would have paid much more. The good news is they were a lot more honest than my previous employer, so although they took my lower price offer to keep their risk down, they gave me lots of raises over the years to bring me up slowly. That is very rare, and if you count on your employer to always look out for your best interest, you are likely to get in trouble.

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

3.) What is the best way to prepare for the interview. And if i am going for C# job interview.. Can employer ask anything i have done in course like C++, Java etc or only the Object oriented stuff and question will be related to C# mainly...?

as a person who regularly sits across the table.... they can ask almost anything related to your schooling. Some are more interested in your grades, I am more interested in your experiences. I would ask you about the class assignments you enjoyed, you found difficult, what languages were hardest, easiest, what concepts came hard, what came easy. I want to get a feel for what you can do. How fast can you adapt to changes in assignments, long hours, hard work. I want to know how much of the work you did by yourself, o

Colin Angus Mackay

El Corazon wrote:

inspect US sites and convert currency

What?! Why? Why not just look at UK sites (i.e. where he is based)?

Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland Recent blog posts: * Mixins in C#3.0 My website | Blog

Dan Neely

El Corazon wrote:

The good news is they were a lot more honest than my previous employer, so although they took my lower price offer to keep their risk down, they gave me lots of raises over the years to bring me up slowly. That is very rare, and if you count on your employer to always look out for your best interest, you are likely to get in trouble.

I lucked out on this front with my employer as well. I was 2 years out of school with no relevant work experience when I got hired at a rather low rate, and a few months after I started I got a fairly large bump in pay with the official reason being HR's most recent salary survey said I was underpaid for what I did and was at increased risk of jumping ship so I got pushed up to the 'normal level' for my skill/area.

Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull

El Corazon

Colin Angus Mackay wrote:

What?! Why? Why not just look at UK sites (i.e. where he is based)?

primarily because of industry. First and foremost you should know your region, and all the particulars. But anymore the company you are looking at is also looking around. You should be not absolutely knowledgeable, but at least aware of the general numbers elsewhere. We've got UK people here, and you've got a few Americans over there, it is good to know why each, because they are your competition. Job hunting is like hunting one deer with 100 other hunters in the same area. You should know as much as you can about your prey (the job) but the more you know about the other hunters, the greater the advantage to you. When 300 or 3000 people apply for a single job, you want to make sure you know everything you can about the others looking for the same job. The reasons to keeping a job local are many, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be aware of who else is looking for your job.

_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

MidwestLimey

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

3.) What is the best way to prepare for the interview. And if i am going for C# job interview.. Can employer ask anything i have done in course like C++, Java etc or only the Object oriented stuff and question will be related to C# mainly...?

The employer can ask whatever they want, well asides certain questions proscribed by law. From my perspective (though admitedly I don't get involved with the interviews that often) as a junior dev I'd want you to demonstrate a basic understanding of principals and to accept you know nothing - trust me, arrogance or bluster will cost you the interview. My line of questioning is fairly typical, and goes a bit like the Microsoft tests - the questions get tougher based on the last question. Still I always open with: What is an interface? If you blow that it's a short interview! :) Demonstrate a willingness to learn, and if applying for a fulltime position sell yourself as a future software engineer in training rather then a junior code monkey. Presently you're inexperienced but cheap, given a year a company will see you as productive but cheap. As for the cheap part, I'd concur anything under 20 p.a. should be avoided as it indicates what the company really thinks of you (and/or I.T.). Remember though that the best experience and the best pay are seemingly always at different venues (or is this just me?). I always went for the best learning experience for the first 5 years, and so far I have no complaints.

I'm largely language agnostic

After a while they all bug me :doh:

MidwestLimey

Smart company. It's cheaper to keep your talent at a rate sufficient to prevent them leaving then to start the hiring process. I'm still amazed when some companies are still blinkered in their thinking - usually the same organizations that run their shops with 80%+ contractors to "save money". What it really boils down to is that they don't see IT as a core aspect of doing business. However the more experience I have the less likely I've found that companies are likely to stiff me, simply because I'm very mobile right as a result.

I'm largely language agnostic

After a while they all bug me :doh:

El Corazon

MidwestLimey wrote:

What it really boils down to is that they don't see IT as a core aspect of doing business.

Many do not. We don't sell software here, we build vans with lots of technology in them. It is easier to just buy software to do everything you need than write your own, it was a long hard fight to show that it is better to make a custom part than force fit the wrong software into a job. :-D

_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)

MidwestLimey

And not only technology laden products. If your company requires complex logistics, management or strategies then IT is invaluable.

I'm largely language agnostic

After a while they all bug me :doh:

Kevin McFarlane

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

agency people calls me and ask what all .Net technologies i know and this is tough now.

When I was trying to enter the industry from a previous career and zero commercial experience (much harder than being a new graduate) I found it was more productive approaching employers directly or responding to employer ads than using agencies. You have one year's commercial experience so you are in a better position. However, the agency scenario may still apply albeit to a lesser extent. In my case, whenever I approached an agency I was told to come back when I had some experience, whereas when I approached companies I did at least get some interviews.

Kevin

Member 96

james_dixon_2008 wrote:

but as a fact i never had any module of .NET in University

Yikes! Confirming my preconcieved notions about how useless a university education is in the real world yet again. :) What were they teaching? Pascal?

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ThatsAlok

Uk sites ;-)

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james_dixon_2008

Thanks a lot to you all for sharing some views. I gained a lot out of this post. I will keep in mind all the suggestions. Thanks again. :)

Pete OHanlon

James - I am an employer, and I'll cast an eye over your CV to see if I can help you with any pointers if it would be of any benefit. Don't get your expectations up - I never hire people fresh out of Uni - but I can tell you what employers look for.

Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

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james_dixon_2008

Hello Pete, I will be really thankful if you will give me some advice on it. Thank You