mobile devices
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Daniel Turini wrote:
What's your definition of a computer?
Here[^] a complete guide to understand computer in view of OP. ;P Or is an Image enough[^]?
"Love thy neighbor.................... ..Whenever your marriage in in trouble"
Absolutely brilliant! :) I'm printing the picture out for my cube right now!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
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Hello! I read the last daily news, and i'm very ungry about one of the articles, that called "10 broken technology ideas -- and how to fix them". The first point talks abaut portable pc's. After reading it, i'm fully convinced that someone that knows nothing about that wrote this article! (i guess that he knows a lot about other things, but no about portable devices) Apple iPhone a "computer"??? It's only a beautifull cellphone, has nothing more than that!!!! And talk about smartphones, pocket pcs and UMPC's like they were all the same thing?? They are complete different worlds!! Being an expert in this topic, i must give you my opinion: - Smartphones: cellphones with something more, the future of massive communication devices, for the common people (the iPhone is here). Some pocket pcs are in the massive category too, with great innovative interfaces, like the HTC Touch, that have a lot more functions than an iPhone, are cheaper, and easy to use. - Pocket Pcs and similars: future of mobile bussines applications. They have the mobility and the capability to run complex bussines applications. I develop that kind of solutions, and i know how much you can do with a pocket pc. Belive me, is more than the most of the IT people thinks (we have apps that are capable to take to the hand all the information required for a mobile warrior: customers, stock, accounts, reports, real time information, sells, etc) - UMPCs and similars: they are still starting, and their place on the market is still not defined, but some of them are better like portable media devices, and other are better for bussines apps. The blackberrys are something temporal. They are good for mobile e-mail, but nothing more. And you can have mobile e-mail (push e-mail) on a pocket pc too, using Exchange Server, is nothing new (exists before Blackberry). They are transforming to pocket pcs, there are new versions that run Windows Mobile, so the actual Blackberry models are a "temporal" kind of device. The iPhone is the better portable computer today?... well, knowing the portable world today, nothing is more far away than that. It's not even a computer... A pocket pc is more close to a portable pc. For example, with .net, an app that runs on a pocket pc, runs on a pc too (there is nothig more close to a pc on your hand than that). The actual portable pcs are no "perfect", but are great to the objetive that are made. There are devices for every need. What do you think? PS: sorry about my bad english, i speak spanish XD
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Member 4577792 wrote:
The iPhone is the better portable computer today?... it's not even a computer...
Why isn't it? It runs OS X. It has memory, a screen, and an input device.
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Member 4577792 wrote:
The iPhone is the better portable computer today?... it's not even a computer...
Why isn't it? It runs OS X. It has memory, a screen, and an input device.
The difference is on the functions that it has. Is more like a cellphone than a pc, only has the basics. A Windows Mobile device has Word, Exel, Power Point, Msn, push-mail, etc, only with the OS. And there are thousands of apps to install on it, like a pc. I have a FTP Server (NO FTP client, FTP SERVER) running on my pocket pc! And a SQL CE Server too! Do that with an iPhone... The iPhone has only the functions of a good cellphone, nothing more.
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The difference is on the functions that it has. Is more like a cellphone than a pc, only has the basics. A Windows Mobile device has Word, Exel, Power Point, Msn, push-mail, etc, only with the OS. And there are thousands of apps to install on it, like a pc. I have a FTP Server (NO FTP client, FTP SERVER) running on my pocket pc! And a SQL CE Server too! Do that with an iPhone... The iPhone has only the functions of a good cellphone, nothing more.
Sure it's more like a cellphone because... unsurprisingly... it is a cellphone! But by your definition, a computer is only a computer when it can run Microsoft office, MSN, and send email. From what I understand the iphone runs SQLite, has an FTP server, can browse the internet, send emails, and has the potential to run games emulators and just about anything else you want to program for it. How is that not a computer?
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Hello! I read the last daily news, and i'm very ungry about one of the articles, that called "10 broken technology ideas -- and how to fix them". The first point talks abaut portable pc's. After reading it, i'm fully convinced that someone that knows nothing about that wrote this article! (i guess that he knows a lot about other things, but no about portable devices) Apple iPhone a "computer"??? It's only a beautifull cellphone, has nothing more than that!!!! And talk about smartphones, pocket pcs and UMPC's like they were all the same thing?? They are complete different worlds!! Being an expert in this topic, i must give you my opinion: - Smartphones: cellphones with something more, the future of massive communication devices, for the common people (the iPhone is here). Some pocket pcs are in the massive category too, with great innovative interfaces, like the HTC Touch, that have a lot more functions than an iPhone, are cheaper, and easy to use. - Pocket Pcs and similars: future of mobile bussines applications. They have the mobility and the capability to run complex bussines applications. I develop that kind of solutions, and i know how much you can do with a pocket pc. Belive me, is more than the most of the IT people thinks (we have apps that are capable to take to the hand all the information required for a mobile warrior: customers, stock, accounts, reports, real time information, sells, etc) - UMPCs and similars: they are still starting, and their place on the market is still not defined, but some of them are better like portable media devices, and other are better for bussines apps. The blackberrys are something temporal. They are good for mobile e-mail, but nothing more. And you can have mobile e-mail (push e-mail) on a pocket pc too, using Exchange Server, is nothing new (exists before Blackberry). They are transforming to pocket pcs, there are new versions that run Windows Mobile, so the actual Blackberry models are a "temporal" kind of device. The iPhone is the better portable computer today?... well, knowing the portable world today, nothing is more far away than that. It's not even a computer... A pocket pc is more close to a portable pc. For example, with .net, an app that runs on a pocket pc, runs on a pc too (there is nothig more close to a pc on your hand than that). The actual portable pcs are no "perfect", but are great to the objetive that are made. There are devices for every need. What do you think? PS: sorry about my bad english, i speak spanish XD
Member 4577792 wrote:
Apple iPhone a "computer"??? It's only a beautifull cellphone, has nothing more than that!!!!
You are thinking of capabilities and feature rich support rather than on need. A calculator is the perfect computer (one who thinks/calculates) for a person who needs a calculator. Anything more than what you need is wasted. But, for what you need, if it does it faster/easier then it is presumably better. There is no way to quantify "look&feel" value from the consumer. But Apple does tend to pull in the business based on it, so they are better at this than most. Does every person need Excel in their pocket? no. Some do, which is why there are PocketPCs. Some people are extremely dependant on email, thus blackberries filled a niche where they could get email anywhere at anytime. UMPCs do have a role in those users who need full computer capability without the bulk.
Member 4577792 wrote:
There are devices for every need.
Which is the most true statement you have made. And for every need there is a computer. The best computer for each person is the one that meets their needs completely. Since each person has different needs, there is no one device that fits the need for everyone collectively. Anyone who tells you otherwise, is full of it. But things change. I still want to replace my wolverine drive, nothing else, including a laptop has fit my needs so well when I go underground. Above ground I have computers, laptops and desktops, because my need involves larger computation devices especially with graphics. Because my needs change based on hobby/activity, I have owned a fair variety of gadgets.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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And as of June this year it will support Exchange, so more appealing to businesses but I can't see many companies handing out iPhones over blackberries.
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
probably not as handouts but a company paid phone could be classed as income under IRS rules and get's really snarly if you put any personal calls on it (not wanting to take 2 on a trip). My employer's moving to xfer existing phone ownership to the employees and give an extra $XX/month in salary to have people pay for phones of their own choice. That opens up alot more room for employees to be using cool phones instead of boring devices.
Otherwise [Microsoft is] toast in the long term no matter how much money they've got. They would be already if the Linux community didn't have it's head so firmly up it's own command line buffer that it looks like taking 15 years to find the desktop. -- Matthew Faithfull
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Sure it's more like a cellphone because... unsurprisingly... it is a cellphone! But by your definition, a computer is only a computer when it can run Microsoft office, MSN, and send email. From what I understand the iphone runs SQLite, has an FTP server, can browse the internet, send emails, and has the potential to run games emulators and just about anything else you want to program for it. How is that not a computer?
First, the iPhone has an FTP CLIENT, no FTP Server (with a server, i can acces my pocket pc from any pc with internet). Second, it doesn't run a SQL Lite. It has an SQL Lite CLIENT, so it can connect to an SQL Lite database that is NOT IN THE DEVICE. On a pocket pc you have the SQL Server ON THE DEVICE. The database and the server are on de pocket pc. And a portable computer can run other OS, not only Windows. There are a lot of portable computers that run portable versions of Linux, for example some models of Nokia. And you are right, IS A CELLPHONE. The problem is that the article says that is the best portable pc!! it is only a cellphone!!! Finally, there are only "little" apps for iPhone. For pocket pc's, there are clients for ERP's like SAP. That is a real app, like an app of a computer, and not a "tiny" app for cellphones.
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Member 4577792 wrote:
Apple iPhone a "computer"??? It's only a beautifull cellphone, has nothing more than that!!!!
You are thinking of capabilities and feature rich support rather than on need. A calculator is the perfect computer (one who thinks/calculates) for a person who needs a calculator. Anything more than what you need is wasted. But, for what you need, if it does it faster/easier then it is presumably better. There is no way to quantify "look&feel" value from the consumer. But Apple does tend to pull in the business based on it, so they are better at this than most. Does every person need Excel in their pocket? no. Some do, which is why there are PocketPCs. Some people are extremely dependant on email, thus blackberries filled a niche where they could get email anywhere at anytime. UMPCs do have a role in those users who need full computer capability without the bulk.
Member 4577792 wrote:
There are devices for every need.
Which is the most true statement you have made. And for every need there is a computer. The best computer for each person is the one that meets their needs completely. Since each person has different needs, there is no one device that fits the need for everyone collectively. Anyone who tells you otherwise, is full of it. But things change. I still want to replace my wolverine drive, nothing else, including a laptop has fit my needs so well when I go underground. Above ground I have computers, laptops and desktops, because my need involves larger computation devices especially with graphics. Because my needs change based on hobby/activity, I have owned a fair variety of gadgets.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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First, the iPhone has an FTP CLIENT, no FTP Server (with a server, i can acces my pocket pc from any pc with internet). Second, it doesn't run a SQL Lite. It has an SQL Lite CLIENT, so it can connect to an SQL Lite database that is NOT IN THE DEVICE. On a pocket pc you have the SQL Server ON THE DEVICE. The database and the server are on de pocket pc. And a portable computer can run other OS, not only Windows. There are a lot of portable computers that run portable versions of Linux, for example some models of Nokia. And you are right, IS A CELLPHONE. The problem is that the article says that is the best portable pc!! it is only a cellphone!!! Finally, there are only "little" apps for iPhone. For pocket pc's, there are clients for ERP's like SAP. That is a real app, like an app of a computer, and not a "tiny" app for cellphones.
Fisa wrote:
First, the iPhone has an FTP CLIENT, no FTP Server
If I buy a computer without an OS pre-installed it has no FTP Server either. How is it any less of a computer?
Fisa wrote:
Second, it doesn't run a SQL Lite. It has an SQL Lite CLIENT
Your waffling pish about different types of software. They type of software it runs does not make it a computer. The fact it is running any sort of software is indication that it is a computer. My washing machine has a computer in it. However, I wouldn't expect it to be running an FTP server in there.
Fisa wrote:
pc
Again, your waffling rubbish. PC == Personal Computer. A cellphone is one of the most personal sorts of computer there is.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland Recent blog posts: * Mixins in C#3.0 My website | Blog
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I agree with you. The problem is that the article defends the iPhone like the best or unique portable computer of today. I think that if we want to compare, it has a lot of things less than other real portable computers. That's my opinion.
Fisa wrote:
The problem is that the article defends the iPhone like the best or unique portable computer of today.
I think the iPhone's success shows its worth. But the article and the post here is still missing the point. The best portable computer is the one that does what you want to do fast and easily. Smartphones were always bulky, and hard to use, so the introduction of the iPhone made "geeky" easy. In that it was unique, and others have been trying to play catch-up now. I do not own an iPhone, though I know a family that does (even their 14year old son). I can understand the niche that the iPhone filled, and its importance without declaring it "just a phone." With so many people using their computers for streaming media, a phone designed around this particular feature was only a matter of time. For some people this is the only computer they need, and in that it is unique and best in this particular market. For developers like us, it is obvious that this would not fit our needs, but that does not mean we should ignore the many non-tech users who would like some of our geeky features without the... well... geekiness. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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First, the iPhone has an FTP CLIENT, no FTP Server (with a server, i can acces my pocket pc from any pc with internet). Second, it doesn't run a SQL Lite. It has an SQL Lite CLIENT, so it can connect to an SQL Lite database that is NOT IN THE DEVICE. On a pocket pc you have the SQL Server ON THE DEVICE. The database and the server are on de pocket pc. And a portable computer can run other OS, not only Windows. There are a lot of portable computers that run portable versions of Linux, for example some models of Nokia. And you are right, IS A CELLPHONE. The problem is that the article says that is the best portable pc!! it is only a cellphone!!! Finally, there are only "little" apps for iPhone. For pocket pc's, there are clients for ERP's like SAP. That is a real app, like an app of a computer, and not a "tiny" app for cellphones.
On the contrary, the iphone runs sqllite - it uses it to store it's internal databases. SQLlite is not a client/server database. I'm sure if you were being perverse you could also install MySQL or Postgresql. It does have an SFTP server, as well as SSH. It has been made to run Apache and can act as a web server (although why you'd want to is another matter). Apache is a real application. So to repeat, I agree the iphone is a cellphone. But is is also a computer. A pocket PC makes a pretty crappy cellphone, but is certainly a reasonably capable computer. For you the iphone may not be a great portable computer, but for a lot of people it provides most of what they need on the go. For me a pocket PC fits no need, being too big to be considered portable, and not powerful enough to be considered useful.
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Fisa wrote:
First, the iPhone has an FTP CLIENT, no FTP Server
If I buy a computer without an OS pre-installed it has no FTP Server either. How is it any less of a computer?
Fisa wrote:
Second, it doesn't run a SQL Lite. It has an SQL Lite CLIENT
Your waffling pish about different types of software. They type of software it runs does not make it a computer. The fact it is running any sort of software is indication that it is a computer. My washing machine has a computer in it. However, I wouldn't expect it to be running an FTP server in there.
Fisa wrote:
pc
Again, your waffling rubbish. PC == Personal Computer. A cellphone is one of the most personal sorts of computer there is.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland Recent blog posts: * Mixins in C#3.0 My website | Blog
Is a computer because is CAPABLE to do that, even if you want to use it like a stone to keep your door open... And the types of software are a sign of the capabilityes of the device. You can't have acces to the ports opens on an iPhone, because that, you can't mount any kind of server application. If you want to make so easy to classify something like "computer", the best computer can be the TV, the telephone, the planes, cars, my watch, or anything that has a chip. I'm talking about the common concept of wat is a computer. The same concept that the article's author is talking.
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On the contrary, the iphone runs sqllite - it uses it to store it's internal databases. SQLlite is not a client/server database. I'm sure if you were being perverse you could also install MySQL or Postgresql. It does have an SFTP server, as well as SSH. It has been made to run Apache and can act as a web server (although why you'd want to is another matter). Apache is a real application. So to repeat, I agree the iphone is a cellphone. But is is also a computer. A pocket PC makes a pretty crappy cellphone, but is certainly a reasonably capable computer. For you the iphone may not be a great portable computer, but for a lot of people it provides most of what they need on the go. For me a pocket PC fits no need, being too big to be considered portable, and not powerful enough to be considered useful.
welll, i didn't know that i could run Apache on an iPhone, that's great. Sorry, so the iPhone CAN run real apps... but were do you read that? I have an iPhone here (for testing), and will be grat to do that. But still is very less than the fuctions of a pocket pc, i think.
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Fisa wrote:
The problem is that the article defends the iPhone like the best or unique portable computer of today.
I think the iPhone's success shows its worth. But the article and the post here is still missing the point. The best portable computer is the one that does what you want to do fast and easily. Smartphones were always bulky, and hard to use, so the introduction of the iPhone made "geeky" easy. In that it was unique, and others have been trying to play catch-up now. I do not own an iPhone, though I know a family that does (even their 14year old son). I can understand the niche that the iPhone filled, and its importance without declaring it "just a phone." With so many people using their computers for streaming media, a phone designed around this particular feature was only a matter of time. For some people this is the only computer they need, and in that it is unique and best in this particular market. For developers like us, it is obvious that this would not fit our needs, but that does not mean we should ignore the many non-tech users who would like some of our geeky features without the... well... geekiness. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
LOL, it remembers me a talk about Vista... Ok, you are right, a computer is good when it do what you need it to do. So my opinion would be: the iPhone is a great computer, for common users. For better and more complex functions, a pocket pc is a better computer. Do you agree with that? (if it where a spanish forum, i could talk better, and have the correct words to say what i want to say...)
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Is a computer because is CAPABLE to do that, even if you want to use it like a stone to keep your door open... And the types of software are a sign of the capabilityes of the device. You can't have acces to the ports opens on an iPhone, because that, you can't mount any kind of server application. If you want to make so easy to classify something like "computer", the best computer can be the TV, the telephone, the planes, cars, my watch, or anything that has a chip. I'm talking about the common concept of wat is a computer. The same concept that the article's author is talking.
Fisa wrote:
If you want to make so easy to classify something like "computer",
What about these computers[^]. I'm sure by your definition they are not because they are not sophisticated enough, don't run on electricity, or some such nonsense.
Fisa wrote:
I'm talking about the common concept of wat is a computer
The common concept is that it is a device that can compute. It doesn't matter if the computation is words in a wordprocessor, signals that define a picture, signals that define an audio wave form, computing braking forces in a car, telling the time, or a whole bunch of other things.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland Recent blog posts: * Mixins in C#3.0 My website | Blog
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welll, i didn't know that i could run Apache on an iPhone, that's great. Sorry, so the iPhone CAN run real apps... but were do you read that? I have an iPhone here (for testing), and will be grat to do that. But still is very less than the fuctions of a pocket pc, i think.
Wired talked about people running django on the iphone with Apache and SQLlite.
Fisa wrote:
But still is very less than the fuctions of a pocket pc, i think
Sure. But then the iphone is primarily a cellphone - one that just happens to be able to surf the net and read emails. A pocket PC is not a good cellphone, but is a good portable PC.
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Wired talked about people running django on the iphone with Apache and SQLlite.
Fisa wrote:
But still is very less than the fuctions of a pocket pc, i think
Sure. But then the iphone is primarily a cellphone - one that just happens to be able to surf the net and read emails. A pocket PC is not a good cellphone, but is a good portable PC.
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Fisa wrote:
If you want to make so easy to classify something like "computer",
What about these computers[^]. I'm sure by your definition they are not because they are not sophisticated enough, don't run on electricity, or some such nonsense.
Fisa wrote:
I'm talking about the common concept of wat is a computer
The common concept is that it is a device that can compute. It doesn't matter if the computation is words in a wordprocessor, signals that define a picture, signals that define an audio wave form, computing braking forces in a car, telling the time, or a whole bunch of other things.
Upcoming FREE developer events: * Developer Day Scotland Recent blog posts: * Mixins in C#3.0 My website | Blog
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LOL, it remembers me a talk about Vista... Ok, you are right, a computer is good when it do what you need it to do. So my opinion would be: the iPhone is a great computer, for common users. For better and more complex functions, a pocket pc is a better computer. Do you agree with that? (if it where a spanish forum, i could talk better, and have the correct words to say what i want to say...)
Fisa wrote:
the iPhone is a great computer, for common users.
yes, I would agree.
Fisa wrote:
For better and more complex functions, a pocket pc is a better computer.
I would agree, in part. You are confusing computation with the OS. For more complex operations involving windows OS related software, but you still want to carry in a sagging pocket, a pocket PC is a better computer. I would say that we have not fully seen the influence the iPhone has had, so it is unclear how much of the market it will take away. Palm and MS have been fighting it out over the pocket computation for a while. You can get software for both, one is more windows, one is not. Depending on your opinions of windows look&feel, and software needs, you can go either way. smart phones like the iPhone and others opened up "application level" computation. That is, the facility is there to have some good computational capability, now the wait is on for the applications. Like the PS3 which has been out for a long time, but game availability made its market share unclear. As games slowly come out, it is slowly chipping away at the competition market share. Is it "better" there is no clear answer. Is it better for some, yes, just as no is valid as well. There is no black and white here. And as with the PS3 the complete influence is yet to be established. Competitors are jumping to come in with similarly capable devices before the niche is completely taken by the iPhone. How wide that niche is will be established by the applications that come out, and the prices of both the product and applications over the next year. The iPhone got a big boost from the "latest gadget crowd." But they are a fickle bunch, upgrading often, always to the next greatest thing that comes out. When they leave, or if they leave, the picture will be clearer still.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
