Curse the .NET designers
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Seems to me like some people have just gotten used to doing things a certain way. C# is certainly adequate for commercial applications, imo.
bwilhite wrote:
C# is certainly adequate for commercial applications, imo.
Yeah, and that's why the market is flooded with them. The few commercial client applications I have used that are written in .NET run terrible. They remind me of those awful VB apps of old.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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bwilhite wrote:
C# is certainly adequate for commercial applications, imo.
Yeah, and that's why the market is flooded with them. The few commercial client applications I have used that are written in .NET run terrible. They remind me of those awful VB apps of old.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Well, if hedge funds and banks are looking to employ C# developers (and yes, they are), then that is a pretty good indication to me :) Granted, the demand is still mostly for C++, but still... Not to mention there's also demand in other industries. So going so far as to say it's not fit for commercial development is at the least a bit of an exaggeration. Of course some day maybe I'll be the one complaining about how somebody "screwed up" their technology...
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Well, if hedge funds and banks are looking to employ C# developers (and yes, they are), then that is a pretty good indication to me :) Granted, the demand is still mostly for C++, but still... Not to mention there's also demand in other industries. So going so far as to say it's not fit for commercial development is at the least a bit of an exaggeration. Of course some day maybe I'll be the one complaining about how somebody "screwed up" their technology...
bwilhite wrote:
Well, if hedge funds and banks are looking to employ C# developers (and yes, they are),
Many of these are providing web services and for web services, .NET is fantastic. For basic database front ends, .NET is fantastic. For complex client applications, it's not so great.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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> I prefer the older method as the site is precompiled and source is not required at the site. I prefer the latter. It's a lot faster in updating a website. Nobody want to change the code, recompile the website and wait for the web browser to appear then login to get to the webpage you're trying to work on. Most of the time, I can update the code on the fly and just refresh the web browser instead of going through the whole process. Beside the IIS web server won't make this App_Code visible to the web browser. This come in handy when the website get bigger and bigger.
Well, that would apply if you develop directly to your production server. I develop everything usually locally and the pump it to the production server. This also keeps most of your source off the production server where it might get exposed if the server gets hacked and in shared hosting, it means your actual code is not available to admins.
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Handy utility app that is always on my machines! Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Live Writer Plug-ins!
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bwilhite wrote:
Well, if hedge funds and banks are looking to employ C# developers (and yes, they are),
Many of these are providing web services and for web services, .NET is fantastic. For basic database front ends, .NET is fantastic. For complex client applications, it's not so great.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Do you have a notion as to how much hassle it is to move an existing project to the older method? I, too, prefer the precompiled approach. I know you can still precompile with 2.0, but it changes the assembly name each time, and if you want to use fixed names it spits out a different dll for each page. Yuck.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
Yeah, screwy new dll naming has been a pain. I think they figured most people would just post the entire code to the server and be done with it. There was a HUGE outcry to give us the old style back. I know it took me quite some time to get used to the new style, but now that the old style is a first class citizen once again, I will be making more use of it along with ASP.NET MVC (in the near future when they get it a bit more settled). For those interested in the conversion to web apps (2005) http://webproject.scottgu.com/CSharp/Migration2/Migration2.aspx[^]
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Handy utility app that is always on my machines! Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Live Writer Plug-ins!
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Yeah, screwy new dll naming has been a pain. I think they figured most people would just post the entire code to the server and be done with it. There was a HUGE outcry to give us the old style back. I know it took me quite some time to get used to the new style, but now that the old style is a first class citizen once again, I will be making more use of it along with ASP.NET MVC (in the near future when they get it a bit more settled). For those interested in the conversion to web apps (2005) http://webproject.scottgu.com/CSharp/Migration2/Migration2.aspx[^]
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Handy utility app that is always on my machines! Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Live Writer Plug-ins!
I gotta say, this is one of the most poorly thought out development platforms I've ever seen. Well, besides using a word processor (aka web browser) as an application environment, of course.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Coming soon: Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua! www.PracticalUSA.com
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I need to take a moment to publicly curse the .NET designers for not implementing the "friend" keyword in C# as it is in C++. For the third time in a week, the lack of this has prevented me from making what would be an elegant implementation of some classes.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Actually I was eagerly waiting to see "friend" keyword being introduced once they introduced Generics... But they didn't :((
Syed Muhammad Fahad Application Development Tyler Technologies -- TEMS Division mfahad@mazikusa.com
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About the only thing I miss from c/c++ was the mutliple base classes. That was handy at times.
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Handy utility app that is always on my machines! Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Live Writer Plug-ins!
Not me. Multiple inheritance was just a painful way of doing things, actually inheritance in general is a painful way of locking in things. Thats why I've read a number of recommendations to program with interfaces instead of inheritance and I agree. Its just easier to modify when you need to change it
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I need to take a moment to publicly curse the .NET designers for not implementing the "friend" keyword in C# as it is in C++. For the third time in a week, the lack of this has prevented me from making what would be an elegant implementation of some classes.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
not implementing the "friend" keyword in C# as it is in C++
Even better would have been Eiffel-style "selective export" - more fine-grained than C++ friend. I've not seen this copied in any of the mainstream languages, e.g., see An Improvement on the Access Control Features of C#[^]
Kevin
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I need to take a moment to publicly curse the .NET designers for not implementing the "friend" keyword in C# as it is in C++. For the third time in a week, the lack of this has prevented me from making what would be an elegant implementation of some classes.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
And what about not supporting abstract base classes for forms or controls? Just try to bring up your form in the designer and see it puke all over the screen. Way to encourage good OO design there fellas.
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I need to take a moment to publicly curse the .NET designers for not implementing the "friend" keyword in C# as it is in C++. For the third time in a week, the lack of this has prevented me from making what would be an elegant implementation of some classes.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Just out of interest, how does this compare to the VB.NET 'Friend' scope? (apart from being a different language). Surely it can be done in C# then if it all compiles down to the same?:confused:
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Joe Woodbury wrote:
not implementing the "friend" keyword in C# as it is in C++
Even better would have been Eiffel-style "selective export" - more fine-grained than C++ friend. I've not seen this copied in any of the mainstream languages, e.g., see An Improvement on the Access Control Features of C#[^]
Kevin
I like the solution the authors came up with.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Just out of interest, how does this compare to the VB.NET 'Friend' scope? (apart from being a different language). Surely it can be done in C# then if it all compiles down to the same?:confused:
It's the same thing as internal; it allows visibility to everything within the assembly, but only in that assembly.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I like the solution the authors came up with.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
I think I stumbled on something similar a while back while investigating a different problem but I can't remember how I did it! :(
Kevin
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Not me. Multiple inheritance was just a painful way of doing things, actually inheritance in general is a painful way of locking in things. Thats why I've read a number of recommendations to program with interfaces instead of inheritance and I agree. Its just easier to modify when you need to change it
Tim Yen wrote:
Thats why I've read a number of recommendations to program with interfaces instead of inheritance and I agree. Its just easier to modify when you need to change it
How is that? You are still locked in with an Inteface. Multiple Inheritance is the same as interfaces except you do not have to "implement" them every time as with Interfaces.
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Handy utility app that is always on my machines! Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Live Writer Plug-ins!
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Tim Yen wrote:
Thats why I've read a number of recommendations to program with interfaces instead of inheritance and I agree. Its just easier to modify when you need to change it
How is that? You are still locked in with an Inteface. Multiple Inheritance is the same as interfaces except you do not have to "implement" them every time as with Interfaces.
Rocky <>< Blog Post: Handy utility app that is always on my machines! Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Live Writer Plug-ins!
You don't have to know what every method does of the parent class(es). You just have to implement the interface. If you don't know what the parent class(es) do then when you modify an existing class structure you may leave in (fail to override) code that will just not work. And that applies all the way up the inheritance tree too. The deeper the inheritance tree the more you have to know if your going to modify the structure. Usually I find just using a class is fine, but modifying a class hierarchy to me requires you understand it on a deeper level. Now maybe this is just an argument against inheritance in general but multiple inheritance just makes it harder and binds things together more tightly. In general I'm moving away from inheritance as it has 1. largely failed to provide code reuse on a big scale, 2. has a habit of hiding implementation details and 3. locks in structure based on assumptions/goals that change and make it hard(er) to modify. The best form of code reuse I have heard of is in components, in particular VB components and they don't use inheritance in that model as far as I know. Though internally the component may.
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It's the same thing as internal; it allows visibility to everything within the assembly, but only in that assembly.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Thanks! (that makes more sense now!) :-D PS: Any good links on the C++ 'friend' keyword then?
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bwilhite wrote:
C# is certainly adequate for commercial applications, imo.
Yeah, and that's why the market is flooded with them. The few commercial client applications I have used that are written in .NET run terrible. They remind me of those awful VB apps of old.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
I do all of my client development in C++ and write my servers in C++ or PHP. I've never had a serious performance issue with any of my apps once I finished them.