Oz Government to let my boss spy on me ...
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After listening to this morning's news I am sitting here totally amazed at what our government is proposing to do. So much so that I feel quite scared even distressed about it. Our Deputy PM, Julia Gillard, is going to allow employers to legally monitor (view) employees email and web site usage. As it is already common place for employers to monitor emails etc I feel the law should be tightened on privacy in this area certainly not relaxed. Apparently, all in the name of preventing a terrorist attack on the Internet in Australia! Yeah right! It took a while but it looks like 1984 has finally arrived!!! So what is my boss going to do next? Monitor my employer provided phones, watch and listen to who I talk to, even open my (but delivered at work) postal mail, have me wear recording devices and monitor me via a GPS where I am at any time! I cannot believe that a labour government would do such a totally uneducated even myopic act and at the same time be seen to be pandering to employers! So an employer is going to be able tell if my email is about terrorism? Or that the web site I am visiting is going to trigger a terrorist act. Are they going to have the time to do this. Oh please!!! The real agenda here is to allow the employers to monitor their employees while the managers remain sitting on their lazy bottoms, rather than getting around and MANAGING their staff. Unreal!!!:mad:
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
As others have said - don't do anything on your work computer that you don't want others to see. This has been the rule for ages. The reality is that all these emails about being home late for dinner - who cares if someone reads them. I recall when we had analog mobile phones that could be easily eavesdropped - in a moment of curiosity I fired up a spectrum analyzer and had a listen - it was mind-numbingly boring. Email has dangers for many reasons - one of the least of which is that the boss may read them. Really it's about as big a threat to my privacy as the council weighing my garbage - the other privacy media beat-up today (link[^]). If you are really worried, install PGP or arrange some certificates with your friends.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
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Peter Hayward wrote:
The real agenda here is to allow the employers to monitor their employees while the managers remain sitting on their lazy bottoms, rather than getting around and MANAGING their staff.
Bullshit. I've worked for many companies here and every single one of them has monitored internet usage. You want privacy? do it on your own time and at your own cost. Typical media beat up about nothing.
Peter Hayward wrote:
Julia Gillard
barren
Hhhmnnn a first class, intellectual reply. If it amuses you so.
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
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Hhhmnnn a first class, intellectual reply. If it amuses you so.
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
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Hi Christian, This is a simplistic argument that the employers often put up. On the surface it seems quite reasonable to only use the internet STRICKTLY for work. However life is unfortunately is not that simple. If my children's school needs to contact me urgently at work on a work supplied phone they certainly can (there are many other cases one could site). Monitoring of phone calls by my employer on employer supplied equipment is not allowed. Just as I can also open a postal letter supplied to me that may have nothing to do with work. The only thing different is the medium used to exchange information. In this case the internet is easily used by people to sureptiously open personal content. Managers should manage not be pouring over employees emails or internet useage. If you are getting your job done in the time allocated what is the problem?
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
Peter Hayward wrote:
If you are getting your job done in the time allocated what is the problem?
Depends entirely on the job, I guess. I mean, some jobs imply a level of trust that others do not. In this day and age, most people can afford an internet ready phone, which is surely all you need for the odd online banking or email emergency. My core position is this. Your employer should be allowed to monitor what you do on their time. You should be able to do private email on a private device, if you need to. Even if your employer finds out you did something personal on work time, as you would with a phone call, what are you planning to do that you want to hide from him/her ? I get that internet banking is an obvious one, but again, do it on your phone.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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bryce wrote:
Havn't seen it anywhere else to this extent. another example is the "100 points of ID" issue.
Well, I find the US worse, I have to show Id to use my credit card quite routinely. Like if I had a stolen card, if I was that sort of person, I'd not have the wherewithall to fake some photo id.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
:) when my mum and dad were last over Mum went into the local Commonwealth Bank to change $100 nz cash to Australian $ and they wanted 100 points of ID. Now, shes nearly 70 so hardly a security risk and over 100 bucks its a farce - she told them to get stuffed and walked out.(nice way to treat visitors) My mate stephen arrived from vegas to live (kiwi) bought a mobile phone - they wanted to see 100 points of ID - he was gobsmacked. Rent a flat - 100 points of ID. Send a package overseas - they want to not only see your ID they also record it too. I can actually understand the septics point of view more so than the australian one 9-11 and all that. cheerypips bryce
MCP --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
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Peter Hayward wrote:
If you are getting your job done in the time allocated what is the problem?
Depends entirely on the job, I guess. I mean, some jobs imply a level of trust that others do not. In this day and age, most people can afford an internet ready phone, which is surely all you need for the odd online banking or email emergency. My core position is this. Your employer should be allowed to monitor what you do on their time. You should be able to do private email on a private device, if you need to. Even if your employer finds out you did something personal on work time, as you would with a phone call, what are you planning to do that you want to hide from him/her ? I get that internet banking is an obvious one, but again, do it on your phone.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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:) when my mum and dad were last over Mum went into the local Commonwealth Bank to change $100 nz cash to Australian $ and they wanted 100 points of ID. Now, shes nearly 70 so hardly a security risk and over 100 bucks its a farce - she told them to get stuffed and walked out.(nice way to treat visitors) My mate stephen arrived from vegas to live (kiwi) bought a mobile phone - they wanted to see 100 points of ID - he was gobsmacked. Rent a flat - 100 points of ID. Send a package overseas - they want to not only see your ID they also record it too. I can actually understand the septics point of view more so than the australian one 9-11 and all that. cheerypips bryce
MCP --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
Some of the banking reporting limits are pretty pathetic - I've done some smaller transfers in recent years for my kids and the reporting seems overkill. Wanting any details to exchange money (rather than transfer) seems ridiculous. The government has always wanted to know who belongs to which phone - mainly for criminal investigations. It's never really bothered me. I can see it could be a problem for visitors. I have worked in both the UK and the US and opening bank accounts in either place would have been almost impossible without local employer support. I think it is reasonable these days, in the interests of air safety, to want to know who sent which packages by air. Photo ID doesn't seem overkill to me.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
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:) when my mum and dad were last over Mum went into the local Commonwealth Bank to change $100 nz cash to Australian $ and they wanted 100 points of ID. Now, shes nearly 70 so hardly a security risk and over 100 bucks its a farce - she told them to get stuffed and walked out.(nice way to treat visitors) My mate stephen arrived from vegas to live (kiwi) bought a mobile phone - they wanted to see 100 points of ID - he was gobsmacked. Rent a flat - 100 points of ID. Send a package overseas - they want to not only see your ID they also record it too. I can actually understand the septics point of view more so than the australian one 9-11 and all that. cheerypips bryce
MCP --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
bryce wrote:
Mum went into the local Commonwealth Bank to change $100 nz cash to Australian $ and they wanted 100 points of ID.
Because they dont want her business. They make stuff all on converting currency so they make it as hard as possible. I suspect there is legislation forcing them to provide that service so they found a way around it.
bryce wrote:
My mate stephen arrived from vegas to live (kiwi) bought a mobile phone - they wanted to see 100 points of ID - he was gobsmacked.
This changed in the last few years. You used to be able to buy a pre-paid sim with no ID and the crims loved it.
bryce wrote:
Rent a flat - 100 points of ID.
If I owned a flat I'd want to know exactly who was renting it.
bryce wrote:
a package overseas - they want to not only see your ID they also record it too.
No idea why
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:) when my mum and dad were last over Mum went into the local Commonwealth Bank to change $100 nz cash to Australian $ and they wanted 100 points of ID. Now, shes nearly 70 so hardly a security risk and over 100 bucks its a farce - she told them to get stuffed and walked out.(nice way to treat visitors) My mate stephen arrived from vegas to live (kiwi) bought a mobile phone - they wanted to see 100 points of ID - he was gobsmacked. Rent a flat - 100 points of ID. Send a package overseas - they want to not only see your ID they also record it too. I can actually understand the septics point of view more so than the australian one 9-11 and all that. cheerypips bryce
MCP --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
Well, I have all sorts of bank hassles, so I am sympathetic. But, you can exchange currency for free at any Travelex.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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Christian Graus wrote:
but again, do it on your phone
and on your own time.
I don't speak Idiot - please talk slowly and clearly
In an ideal world I only ever would do this in my own time (e.g lunch time) but how does my Boss (or his voyeristic lacky) really know what is my own time? The point is that someone looking at an email sent to me in good faith by another person should not have to worry about if a third party may intercept it. On the surface it seems so simple. Just only do work related things on work provided facilities. Well that'll mean no private postal mail, no private conversations with anyone (not even the footy results), no private phone calls just work work work for the corporation .... now if that ain't 1984 a bit late I don't know what is. I'm hoping that employers will use this to differentiate hwo they employ people. i.e we are a non-gender, non racial, and non eves dropping employer! The bottom line is the government is bringing this in, in the guise of anti terrorism which is really quite laughable despite the real reasons behind it.
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
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Some of the banking reporting limits are pretty pathetic - I've done some smaller transfers in recent years for my kids and the reporting seems overkill. Wanting any details to exchange money (rather than transfer) seems ridiculous. The government has always wanted to know who belongs to which phone - mainly for criminal investigations. It's never really bothered me. I can see it could be a problem for visitors. I have worked in both the UK and the US and opening bank accounts in either place would have been almost impossible without local employer support. I think it is reasonable these days, in the interests of air safety, to want to know who sent which packages by air. Photo ID doesn't seem overkill to me.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
and little by little by hook and by crook our rights and freedoms are taken away You dont think its unreasonable
cp9876 wrote:
n the interests of air safety,
then what about local mail? shall we also require photo id for that too ? next maybe a govt approved card which permits you to send mail at all then while we're at it - that internet thing is gosh darn dangerous - we want you to have govt permission to have an email account. them the path and we're well down it old chap in the interests of "safety" you see cheerypips Bryce
MCP --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
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As others have said - don't do anything on your work computer that you don't want others to see. This has been the rule for ages. The reality is that all these emails about being home late for dinner - who cares if someone reads them. I recall when we had analog mobile phones that could be easily eavesdropped - in a moment of curiosity I fired up a spectrum analyzer and had a listen - it was mind-numbingly boring. Email has dangers for many reasons - one of the least of which is that the boss may read them. Really it's about as big a threat to my privacy as the council weighing my garbage - the other privacy media beat-up today (link[^]). If you are really worried, install PGP or arrange some certificates with your friends.
Peter "Until the invention of the computer, the machine gun was the device that enabled humans to make the most mistakes in the smallest amount of time."
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In an ideal world I only ever would do this in my own time (e.g lunch time) but how does my Boss (or his voyeristic lacky) really know what is my own time? The point is that someone looking at an email sent to me in good faith by another person should not have to worry about if a third party may intercept it. On the surface it seems so simple. Just only do work related things on work provided facilities. Well that'll mean no private postal mail, no private conversations with anyone (not even the footy results), no private phone calls just work work work for the corporation .... now if that ain't 1984 a bit late I don't know what is. I'm hoping that employers will use this to differentiate hwo they employ people. i.e we are a non-gender, non racial, and non eves dropping employer! The bottom line is the government is bringing this in, in the guise of anti terrorism which is really quite laughable despite the real reasons behind it.
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
And here I was thinking that it has been legal for years :sigh: I have ALWAYS assumed that anything done from the office is available to the boss - mind you if your boss is a voyueristic sod then you have a problem with your boss, not the fact that he/she can access your emails. And yes I may have a simplistic view of the world.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Thunderbox666 wrote:
people spending more time on ebay and similar sites
Yeah, I've seen a lot of public servants doing that, and it's quite valid that if your employer gives you the wherewithall to waste your work time, they can also monitor if you do so. At least, I think so. I'd be appalled if an employer told me I couldn't ever use CP, or check an email or an ebay auction, but if someone is spending hours on it, that's anotehr thing entirely.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
Where I work I run up against the net Nazi regularly, I can understand the porn sites being blocked from work and maybe some of the weirder sites but anything with "blog" in the address gets blocked:mad: I have no access to any sort of web mail (yahoo, hotmail etc) which is really annoying, mind you they complained I was getting too much spam. When I explained I could not use my usual ploy of using a hotmail for some site they were a little sheepish. Be thankful they only have the right to inspect and not restrict!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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:) when my mum and dad were last over Mum went into the local Commonwealth Bank to change $100 nz cash to Australian $ and they wanted 100 points of ID. Now, shes nearly 70 so hardly a security risk and over 100 bucks its a farce - she told them to get stuffed and walked out.(nice way to treat visitors) My mate stephen arrived from vegas to live (kiwi) bought a mobile phone - they wanted to see 100 points of ID - he was gobsmacked. Rent a flat - 100 points of ID. Send a package overseas - they want to not only see your ID they also record it too. I can actually understand the septics point of view more so than the australian one 9-11 and all that. cheerypips bryce
MCP --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
5 points for you Mum.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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After listening to this morning's news I am sitting here totally amazed at what our government is proposing to do. So much so that I feel quite scared even distressed about it. Our Deputy PM, Julia Gillard, is going to allow employers to legally monitor (view) employees email and web site usage. As it is already common place for employers to monitor emails etc I feel the law should be tightened on privacy in this area certainly not relaxed. Apparently, all in the name of preventing a terrorist attack on the Internet in Australia! Yeah right! It took a while but it looks like 1984 has finally arrived!!! So what is my boss going to do next? Monitor my employer provided phones, watch and listen to who I talk to, even open my (but delivered at work) postal mail, have me wear recording devices and monitor me via a GPS where I am at any time! I cannot believe that a labour government would do such a totally uneducated even myopic act and at the same time be seen to be pandering to employers! So an employer is going to be able tell if my email is about terrorism? Or that the web site I am visiting is going to trigger a terrorist act. Are they going to have the time to do this. Oh please!!! The real agenda here is to allow the employers to monitor their employees while the managers remain sitting on their lazy bottoms, rather than getting around and MANAGING their staff. Unreal!!!:mad:
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
What, exactly, has changed here? Corporations have always been, and always will, monitor communications coming in and out of them. This has nothing to do with terrorism (I really did hope the Rudd govt would be more mature about this) and has everything to do with IP protection. If someone is emailing a competitor, going to a competitor's website from inside the company's network, or posting confidential material on the net then the company will use traffic records to identify the person responsible. I'm not saying this is correct, or fair, or that 'guilty until proven innocent' works, or even that many companies would ever bother checking logs until they actually needed to, but it's a fact of life. Scott MeNealy said it and it still holds: You have no privacy. Build a bridge mate, you're going to have to get over it.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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Hhhmnnn a first class, intellectual reply. If it amuses you so.
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
His reply, though a bit "pointed" is basically stating what most companies feel. Internet usage, as well as company emails are supposed to be used for business, unless otherwise stated in all that paperwork you sign with HR when hired (at least here in the US). And they have won repeatedly in US court when challenged by some knucklehead who assumed he/she had a right to privacy when using his/her companies systems and connections. I've been at companies that allow very liberal usage, one even allowed the network usage for online gaming...after hours of course, and other companies, like my present that remove the internet all together except for a select few who need it. Why? Because they found, by monitoring that people can and sometimes abuse it. On my team, I have some who can access the Internet, some who can't...if they need it, they can show cause, if they lost it, we can show cause as well...
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What, exactly, has changed here? Corporations have always been, and always will, monitor communications coming in and out of them. This has nothing to do with terrorism (I really did hope the Rudd govt would be more mature about this) and has everything to do with IP protection. If someone is emailing a competitor, going to a competitor's website from inside the company's network, or posting confidential material on the net then the company will use traffic records to identify the person responsible. I'm not saying this is correct, or fair, or that 'guilty until proven innocent' works, or even that many companies would ever bother checking logs until they actually needed to, but it's a fact of life. Scott MeNealy said it and it still holds: You have no privacy. Build a bridge mate, you're going to have to get over it.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Build a bridge mate, you're going to have to get over it.
...see a photo of the Thirsty Merc poster up on the wall at Code Project RSN.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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After listening to this morning's news I am sitting here totally amazed at what our government is proposing to do. So much so that I feel quite scared even distressed about it. Our Deputy PM, Julia Gillard, is going to allow employers to legally monitor (view) employees email and web site usage. As it is already common place for employers to monitor emails etc I feel the law should be tightened on privacy in this area certainly not relaxed. Apparently, all in the name of preventing a terrorist attack on the Internet in Australia! Yeah right! It took a while but it looks like 1984 has finally arrived!!! So what is my boss going to do next? Monitor my employer provided phones, watch and listen to who I talk to, even open my (but delivered at work) postal mail, have me wear recording devices and monitor me via a GPS where I am at any time! I cannot believe that a labour government would do such a totally uneducated even myopic act and at the same time be seen to be pandering to employers! So an employer is going to be able tell if my email is about terrorism? Or that the web site I am visiting is going to trigger a terrorist act. Are they going to have the time to do this. Oh please!!! The real agenda here is to allow the employers to monitor their employees while the managers remain sitting on their lazy bottoms, rather than getting around and MANAGING their staff. Unreal!!!:mad:
Peter Hayward Ngarkat Technologies South Australia,
At my last company, IT noticed a lot of traffic coming to and from someone's system. Turned out they were running a P2P program and it been turned into a super node. Talk to IT and HR, you'd be stunned at what they track people doing on the company dime. (My brother once worked with a guy who owned several properties on the side and spent at least half his time managing them from his office. He even had his work number printed on his business card! The irony was that the fellow was terrible at buying and managing property and simply lost money.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Build a bridge mate, you're going to have to get over it.
...see a photo of the Thirsty Merc poster up on the wall at Code Project RSN.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004