Back Pain...
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Someone hat-tricked and power played my butt out of trouble. Sorry about that. I had no idea that was why you changed your name. I figured it was a mid-life crisis thing that came with a Harley and a trophy wife with a rack that would make a pool table blush... :cool:
:) Nope, I'm not due for that yet, I plan on living forever or die trying so mid life is a long ways off yet. Not it's because I'm out front with our company and I like being able to come here and say what I want without having it all analyzed and picked apart. I used to believe in the full name thing but it's fallen so far out of favour since I cut my teeth in the old relay mail days that it's just an anachronism now.
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
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What was your specific medical problem do you know? My facet joints are a total mess, bulging discs, narrow spinal column, thick head... :cool:
code-frog wrote:
What was your specific medical problem do you know? My facet joints are a total mess, bulging discs, narrow spinal column, thick head... [Cool]
A combination of sciatica & scoliosis, both the result of too much sitting and poor posture. I was really at my wits end with the pain and willing to give anything a go. I'd tried physio, chiro, swimming & spending days in bed before I went to see this guy.
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Hey, that's better, thanks admin gods of CP! I found a guide somewhere published by IIRC the US government on how to scientifically adjust your workspace. The chair height is so your feet are flat on the ground and your keyboard height is so that your arms are perfectly neutral, not reaching up or down. Also it's important that your thighs touch all along and your back is comfortable. Some now say a perfectly straight chair back is a horrible position and a bit of slouching is actually good. But in the end I'd have to say that's important but far more important is regular excercise involving the back and absolutely *NO* stretching before excercise, instead do a slow warm up that mimics the real hard excercise you will be doing later. All the latest research shows that stretching is a horrible mistake and the worst back pain I had in my life was for several years rigorously following stretching excercises. See: http://www.whenstretchingisbad.com/[^] Even with a theoretically perfect setup I still get back or hip pain (mostly from a bad posture) if I don't bike or do a *lot* of wheelbarrowing/digging/rototillering around the yard on a regular basis. I was in agony in my hip at the end of the last development cycle in Feb. because I was leaning on my left elbow a *lot* and not noticing it, a bad habit which before this only resulted in numb tip of my left little fingertip but I guess I'm getting old and my hip felt like it was seriously out of place. When development was over for the summer break in March I started hobbling around getting as much excercise as I could and slowly worked my way out of it. I recommend a course of 1 month of shovelling gravel into a wheelbarrow (work your way up to 20 heaping large shovel fulls of "road crush") followed by wheeling it up and down hills where you have to hold it back from getting away from you then push like hell to get it up a minor hill for at least 60 seconds then doing it all over again for about 2 hours a day. You'll hurt like hell at first then slowly your back will feel better than it has in a long time. Seriously any good all around excercise that include bending and lifting seems to work for me but biking is by far the easiest on the back but also the lowest amount of benefit in the long run. (mountain biking more verticle, not road biking which was always bad back agony for me) Oh, almost forgot, ditc
Funny. I shoveled 9 yards of gravel and 6 yards of sod in one weekend. I could tell it was just what I needed. We have 9 yards of dirt coming soon and I'm excited to tear into that as well.
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Hey, that's better, thanks admin gods of CP! I found a guide somewhere published by IIRC the US government on how to scientifically adjust your workspace. The chair height is so your feet are flat on the ground and your keyboard height is so that your arms are perfectly neutral, not reaching up or down. Also it's important that your thighs touch all along and your back is comfortable. Some now say a perfectly straight chair back is a horrible position and a bit of slouching is actually good. But in the end I'd have to say that's important but far more important is regular excercise involving the back and absolutely *NO* stretching before excercise, instead do a slow warm up that mimics the real hard excercise you will be doing later. All the latest research shows that stretching is a horrible mistake and the worst back pain I had in my life was for several years rigorously following stretching excercises. See: http://www.whenstretchingisbad.com/[^] Even with a theoretically perfect setup I still get back or hip pain (mostly from a bad posture) if I don't bike or do a *lot* of wheelbarrowing/digging/rototillering around the yard on a regular basis. I was in agony in my hip at the end of the last development cycle in Feb. because I was leaning on my left elbow a *lot* and not noticing it, a bad habit which before this only resulted in numb tip of my left little fingertip but I guess I'm getting old and my hip felt like it was seriously out of place. When development was over for the summer break in March I started hobbling around getting as much excercise as I could and slowly worked my way out of it. I recommend a course of 1 month of shovelling gravel into a wheelbarrow (work your way up to 20 heaping large shovel fulls of "road crush") followed by wheeling it up and down hills where you have to hold it back from getting away from you then push like hell to get it up a minor hill for at least 60 seconds then doing it all over again for about 2 hours a day. You'll hurt like hell at first then slowly your back will feel better than it has in a long time. Seriously any good all around excercise that include bending and lifting seems to work for me but biking is by far the easiest on the back but also the lowest amount of benefit in the long run. (mountain biking more verticle, not road biking which was always bad back agony for me) Oh, almost forgot, ditc
The exercise balls can be good, but can be a disaster. I use a saddle chair, which, unlike a ball, DOES force you into a good position. And I have a desk that raises and lowers so I work standing for half the day.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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Hey John a while back you and I hashed out back pain for a good 5 or 10 posts and you said that you had your workspace adjusted and it really helped. Can you describe chair height? Mine was really high and my feet couldn't touch the floor. It made me slouch a lot. I've lowered it and don't slouch as much. Now I'm wondering... is there a too low and is there a just right and do you have an opinion on low/high? Anyone besides John can jump in. I'm just really curious to hear from people what their experience has been. I decided that despite the pain I wanted to be an athlete more than I wanted to be dependent on pain medicines. So I stopped all the pain medicines. Since then I've become very attenuated to what hurts and relieves my back pain. Oddly enough if I don't exercise I'm a hurting man for sure. I've also found that push-ups (hold them for 10 seconds at the top) are a pain-killer on their own for me. So instead of taking morphine, oxycontin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, [addicto]codone I'm looking for other options. Since my butt spends 12 hours a day in a chair minimum I figured that might be a good place to start. Of course getting less chair time would be nice too.
modified on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:45 PM
I am a believer in the chiropractor. If one thing is out of alignment, everything goes out of alignment. Not too long ago the Hubby was having back problems--his hip was out of place. Once back in place he was fine. There are different techniques--I like the hands-on, not the the little device that looks like a small metal pogo stick. If you have never been, at first it's like, "okay....what is he doing....WTF? I AM NOT AN OWL!" See Eddie Izzard's Dressed to Kill. I go in about 1x per month to have everything adjusted. Because I sneeze so hard, I have a couple of ribs that go out of place. I have TMJ so I have my jaw reset when it gets too painful. I have read that your knees should be at the 90 degree angle when sitting at your desk. I prefer to sit what is refered to as "Indian style" in my chair. If I get up at least once every 1/2 hour that also helps. I have a vertical mouse so my forearm bones don't twist, and a split keyboard. Stretching and yoga also help.
Shhhhh..... http://craptasticnation.blogspot.com/[^]
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Hey John a while back you and I hashed out back pain for a good 5 or 10 posts and you said that you had your workspace adjusted and it really helped. Can you describe chair height? Mine was really high and my feet couldn't touch the floor. It made me slouch a lot. I've lowered it and don't slouch as much. Now I'm wondering... is there a too low and is there a just right and do you have an opinion on low/high? Anyone besides John can jump in. I'm just really curious to hear from people what their experience has been. I decided that despite the pain I wanted to be an athlete more than I wanted to be dependent on pain medicines. So I stopped all the pain medicines. Since then I've become very attenuated to what hurts and relieves my back pain. Oddly enough if I don't exercise I'm a hurting man for sure. I've also found that push-ups (hold them for 10 seconds at the top) are a pain-killer on their own for me. So instead of taking morphine, oxycontin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, [addicto]codone I'm looking for other options. Since my butt spends 12 hours a day in a chair minimum I figured that might be a good place to start. Of course getting less chair time would be nice too.
modified on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:45 PM
Give this a read[^]. May help, may not.
Jon Sagara On a traffic light yellow means yield, and green means go. On a banana, it's just the opposite, yellow means go ahead, green means stop, and red means, where'd you get that banana? -- Mitch Hedberg .NET Blog | Personal Blog | Articles
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:) Nope, I'm not due for that yet, I plan on living forever or die trying so mid life is a long ways off yet. Not it's because I'm out front with our company and I like being able to come here and say what I want without having it all analyzed and picked apart. I used to believe in the full name thing but it's fallen so far out of favour since I cut my teeth in the old relay mail days that it's just an anachronism now.
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
Geeze...maybe I should get an alias? :~ Can you change your account name and your posts & articles change with it? There are so many guys in the world named David Lockwood that I guess I can hide...there's one here in town and I'm always getting phonecalls for him. It wasn't meeeeeeeeee...it was another Dave...an evil Dave....and..and...I killed him :)
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I am a believer in the chiropractor. If one thing is out of alignment, everything goes out of alignment. Not too long ago the Hubby was having back problems--his hip was out of place. Once back in place he was fine. There are different techniques--I like the hands-on, not the the little device that looks like a small metal pogo stick. If you have never been, at first it's like, "okay....what is he doing....WTF? I AM NOT AN OWL!" See Eddie Izzard's Dressed to Kill. I go in about 1x per month to have everything adjusted. Because I sneeze so hard, I have a couple of ribs that go out of place. I have TMJ so I have my jaw reset when it gets too painful. I have read that your knees should be at the 90 degree angle when sitting at your desk. I prefer to sit what is refered to as "Indian style" in my chair. If I get up at least once every 1/2 hour that also helps. I have a vertical mouse so my forearm bones don't twist, and a split keyboard. Stretching and yoga also help.
Shhhhh..... http://craptasticnation.blogspot.com/[^]
Of all the people I know who ever went to a chiropractor about 20% swear by them and go regularly. The other 80% have all reported horror stories of major injuries or increased pain and will never go again. Admittedly this is only about 30 people so it's not super scientific but it sure scares me off of the prospect. I'm guessing it boils down to whether the chiropractor is good at their job or now. It seems like just the sort of field that people would go into half assed to make some cash (probably the ones trying to sell people orthotics which was conclusively shown to be the biggest scam going right now).
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
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Give this a read[^]. May help, may not.
Jon Sagara On a traffic light yellow means yield, and green means go. On a banana, it's just the opposite, yellow means go ahead, green means stop, and red means, where'd you get that banana? -- Mitch Hedberg .NET Blog | Personal Blog | Articles
I am 6 feet 200Lb and I had sever Back Pain for 15 years- Nothing Worked. Two things helped completely: 1.0 Get a farm mattress like Futon Mattress. 2.0 Get a Prfesional Gymball- 50 sec exercize for 2 days a week made me completely back pain free. You can get Gym ball from Sports clinic stores. Cheers
Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 http://www.keencomputer.com
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The exercise balls can be good, but can be a disaster. I use a saddle chair, which, unlike a ball, DOES force you into a good position. And I have a desk that raises and lowers so I work standing for half the day.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
I tried one of those chairs where you sort of kneel on them, probably not what you mean but it didn't help me at all. Nothing helped like regular exercise. The balls are relatively cheap and you can use them for part of the day so if it does help it's worth it, if not you can paint it like a alien egg or something. :) In the end it's just a really bad idea to sit in one position for 8 or 12 hours a day and add in lack of exercise and it's a recipe for disaster.
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
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Geeze...maybe I should get an alias? :~ Can you change your account name and your posts & articles change with it? There are so many guys in the world named David Lockwood that I guess I can hide...there's one here in town and I'm always getting phonecalls for him. It wasn't meeeeeeeeee...it was another Dave...an evil Dave....and..and...I killed him :)
Only if you feel like it. If I wasn't representing my company so often online in other places I'd definitely have stuck with the full name. I think your name is only stored in one place, that was my experience.
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
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Funny. I shoveled 9 yards of gravel and 6 yards of sod in one weekend. I could tell it was just what I needed. We have 9 yards of dirt coming soon and I'm excited to tear into that as well.
Sod? We're at war on our grass. I've gotten rid of as much of it as possible (learned some neat tricks for doing that more easily) and replanted with Dutch White Clover instead. It's a short variety that can withstand light traffic. I'm sick of mowing and clover looks so much nicer. Plus it's good for the bees, but mostly my wife and I both hate mowing and grass is entirely redundant to us. We have just under 3 acres here and we've been building trails all over a lot of it. Since last September I've wheelbarrowed 36 yards with about 12 more to go of the road crush. It's a mix of sand and gravel they use under roads but it makes a good trail and compacts nicely. We probably have a kilometer of trails by now but I haven't added it all up properly. The only place the gravel can be delivered is right at the front of the property and most of the trails are at the back and about 12 feet lower elevation than the front with some little hills here and there so it's been quite a workout. We had one wheelbarrow go down already (actually the tire went and my wife practically ripped it apart trying to get it off and broke the frame, it was pretty funny when I saw what she did, all it needed was a little wd40 to loosen the bolt. :))
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
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Sod? We're at war on our grass. I've gotten rid of as much of it as possible (learned some neat tricks for doing that more easily) and replanted with Dutch White Clover instead. It's a short variety that can withstand light traffic. I'm sick of mowing and clover looks so much nicer. Plus it's good for the bees, but mostly my wife and I both hate mowing and grass is entirely redundant to us. We have just under 3 acres here and we've been building trails all over a lot of it. Since last September I've wheelbarrowed 36 yards with about 12 more to go of the road crush. It's a mix of sand and gravel they use under roads but it makes a good trail and compacts nicely. We probably have a kilometer of trails by now but I haven't added it all up properly. The only place the gravel can be delivered is right at the front of the property and most of the trails are at the back and about 12 feet lower elevation than the front with some little hills here and there so it's been quite a workout. We had one wheelbarrow go down already (actually the tire went and my wife practically ripped it apart trying to get it off and broke the frame, it was pretty funny when I saw what she did, all it needed was a little wd40 to loosen the bolt. :))
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
You want some palm trees to go with your trails? I have a bazillion or so that I want to get rid of... Of course the freight (not to mention quarantine rules) might kill you!!
------------------------------------------- Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow; Don't walk behind me, I may not lead; Just bugger off and leave me alone!!
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Hey John a while back you and I hashed out back pain for a good 5 or 10 posts and you said that you had your workspace adjusted and it really helped. Can you describe chair height? Mine was really high and my feet couldn't touch the floor. It made me slouch a lot. I've lowered it and don't slouch as much. Now I'm wondering... is there a too low and is there a just right and do you have an opinion on low/high? Anyone besides John can jump in. I'm just really curious to hear from people what their experience has been. I decided that despite the pain I wanted to be an athlete more than I wanted to be dependent on pain medicines. So I stopped all the pain medicines. Since then I've become very attenuated to what hurts and relieves my back pain. Oddly enough if I don't exercise I'm a hurting man for sure. I've also found that push-ups (hold them for 10 seconds at the top) are a pain-killer on their own for me. So instead of taking morphine, oxycontin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, [addicto]codone I'm looking for other options. Since my butt spends 12 hours a day in a chair minimum I figured that might be a good place to start. Of course getting less chair time would be nice too.
modified on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:45 PM
I used to be 230 pounds and had a bad back for many years. I'm free from back pain since a year now. But there were no magic cure, it was several small things together helping. First of all, change position frequently, never allow your muscles to stiffen up. Which chair to use is up to you, we're all different. I'm having a normal but fairly expensive office chair with a good support for my lower back. I have a curved table so that I can rest my arms on it without leaning. And my table is motorized so it can be set to different heights so that I can work standing. If you're overweight, lose it! I'm now 200 pounds and still losing. Do some heavy work, I can't put it better then John already have. Do long walks in the forest on an uneven surface, that also gives your backmuscles some dynamic work to do. It's the static work that gives you muscle pain!
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code-frog wrote:
What was your specific medical problem do you know? My facet joints are a total mess, bulging discs, narrow spinal column, thick head... [Cool]
A combination of sciatica & scoliosis, both the result of too much sitting and poor posture. I was really at my wits end with the pain and willing to give anything a go. I'd tried physio, chiro, swimming & spending days in bed before I went to see this guy.
This little application: http://www.workrave.org/[^] (which personally i find annoying...hihihi )might help u remember it's time to do "the move" and leave the damn chair for a while... This link: http://www.utwente.nl/pao/en/info_voor/medewerkers/working_conditions/Beeldschermwerk%20en%20RSI%20(UT)_EN.doc/[^] might help u as well....At least u get a picture where u can see how to position ur chair... Man...must be tough with all this pains... Good luck and i hope this will help a bit! Cheers Roxana
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I am 6 feet 200Lb and I had sever Back Pain for 15 years- Nothing Worked. Two things helped completely: 1.0 Get a farm mattress like Futon Mattress. 2.0 Get a Prfesional Gymball- 50 sec exercize for 2 days a week made me completely back pain free. You can get Gym ball from Sports clinic stores. Cheers
Tapas Shome System Software Engineer Keen Computer Solutions 1408 Erin Street Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada R3E 2S8 http://www.keencomputer.com
Hi all; I remembered reading this [^]article on sitting posture. Secondly. I do not believe in medications for most cases of back pain. I subscribe to the belief that our body has not evolved into what it is to perform work sitting down. Sit down work is mostly a recent 'invention'. To exacerbate matters further some of us (myself included) tend to be overweight to varying degrees. I discovered that the secret to a back pain free life IS exercise - no going around it. Get off your butt and do something. It is not a matter of running a 4 minute mile, it is just a matter of doing something active you like and enjoy a couple of times a week (ie: not just on holidays). And it is not something that takes hours either. In my case 30 - 40 mins 3 - 4 times a week does the trick. The hardest thing is starting. Initially it might feel tiring and painful to take more than 50 - 100 steps if you are not used to activity. That situation changes after 2 or 3 'sessions' and your body will start feeling good and at times even 'beg for more'. Additionally exercise will help you sleep better too. I am not a fitness freak. I do not have 6-pack abs and toned muscled arms. I am in not in perfect shape and like beer and food more than I should. However I do practise what I wrote above and the only time my back hurts is when the boss flogs me. :) Hope this helps motivate someone. Me
No trees were killed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Of all the people I know who ever went to a chiropractor about 20% swear by them and go regularly. The other 80% have all reported horror stories of major injuries or increased pain and will never go again. Admittedly this is only about 30 people so it's not super scientific but it sure scares me off of the prospect. I'm guessing it boils down to whether the chiropractor is good at their job or now. It seems like just the sort of field that people would go into half assed to make some cash (probably the ones trying to sell people orthotics which was conclusively shown to be the biggest scam going right now).
"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do." - Walter Bagehot
John C wrote:
I'm guessing it boils down to whether the chiropractor is good at their job or now.
There is another choice for joint adjustments. An osteopath is a doctor (of sorts, he can, for instance, write prescriptions which chiropractors can't) who specializes in the snap, crackle, and popping of joints. Since the degree is harder to get than a DC, there are fewer of em, and they tend to cost more.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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What was your specific medical problem do you know? My facet joints are a total mess, bulging discs, narrow spinal column, thick head... :cool:
Why on gods earth somebody threw 1 vote at you for that post, is quite beyond me. Here's a 5.
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I am a believer in the chiropractor. If one thing is out of alignment, everything goes out of alignment. Not too long ago the Hubby was having back problems--his hip was out of place. Once back in place he was fine. There are different techniques--I like the hands-on, not the the little device that looks like a small metal pogo stick. If you have never been, at first it's like, "okay....what is he doing....WTF? I AM NOT AN OWL!" See Eddie Izzard's Dressed to Kill. I go in about 1x per month to have everything adjusted. Because I sneeze so hard, I have a couple of ribs that go out of place. I have TMJ so I have my jaw reset when it gets too painful. I have read that your knees should be at the 90 degree angle when sitting at your desk. I prefer to sit what is refered to as "Indian style" in my chair. If I get up at least once every 1/2 hour that also helps. I have a vertical mouse so my forearm bones don't twist, and a split keyboard. Stretching and yoga also help.
Shhhhh..... http://craptasticnation.blogspot.com/[^]
leckey wrote:
Because I sneeze so hard, I have a couple of ribs that go out of place.
:omg: Flippin eck leckey, restrain yourself!
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Hey John a while back you and I hashed out back pain for a good 5 or 10 posts and you said that you had your workspace adjusted and it really helped. Can you describe chair height? Mine was really high and my feet couldn't touch the floor. It made me slouch a lot. I've lowered it and don't slouch as much. Now I'm wondering... is there a too low and is there a just right and do you have an opinion on low/high? Anyone besides John can jump in. I'm just really curious to hear from people what their experience has been. I decided that despite the pain I wanted to be an athlete more than I wanted to be dependent on pain medicines. So I stopped all the pain medicines. Since then I've become very attenuated to what hurts and relieves my back pain. Oddly enough if I don't exercise I'm a hurting man for sure. I've also found that push-ups (hold them for 10 seconds at the top) are a pain-killer on their own for me. So instead of taking morphine, oxycontin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, [addicto]codone I'm looking for other options. Since my butt spends 12 hours a day in a chair minimum I figured that might be a good place to start. Of course getting less chair time would be nice too.
modified on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:45 PM
I stopped putting my wallet (very thin, if you want to know :-D ) in my back pocket. The pain from my crushed vertebrae went away (almost). The story about how I got the crushed vertebrae involves a love-sick 800 kilogram Holstein-Fresian and an iron bar...