Opinion on certification.
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Joe wrote:
I've around 3 years of experience in .net as a web-developer
i guess the certification cannot hurt. i have not gotten them, but i have 10 years experience in asp.net and c#. that is why recruiters always contact me... :cool: but seriously, it cannot hurt...maybe someone out there will want you because of it...you might learn something even :-D
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
Impressive! Especially since the first .NET betas weren't even available until late 2000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_.NET#Microsoft_.NET[^]
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Indeed: don't know if it's still possible but a year or so ago you could pay someone to take the exams for you and there were (there was a thread around here somewhere) a myriad of web sites offering the service. Kinda devalues the whole thing.
True, but knowledge and capability to deliver will be known when asked to do something. They will be running towards forum posting threads like 'Give me code URGENT Plzzz' (in a non-programming forum).
digital man wrote:
Kinda devalues the whole thing.
Happens in India, those who aren't fit to be a programmer call themselves as a Software Engineer. The worst part being they add those certifications next to their name in the resume. :wtf:
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish, he'll eat for lifetime. Pradeep Joe
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True, but knowledge and capability to deliver will be known when asked to do something. They will be running towards forum posting threads like 'Give me code URGENT Plzzz' (in a non-programming forum).
digital man wrote:
Kinda devalues the whole thing.
Happens in India, those who aren't fit to be a programmer call themselves as a Software Engineer. The worst part being they add those certifications next to their name in the resume. :wtf:
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish, he'll eat for lifetime. Pradeep Joe
Joe wrote:
True, but knowledge and capability to deliver will be known when asked to do something.
In the mean time, these certified pretenders waste money, time, and other less tangible resources, thus driving up costs. Instead of firing people that lie on their resume, they should be shot and removed from the workforce altogether.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Certifications don't mean squat.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Certifications don't mean squat.
There is a big difference between "don't mean squat" and "are not worth anything." In the whole scheme of things what translates to $$ matters more to your employer than to any reality known to man. However the truth is, some employers do value certifications, some require them, and some will even pay for them, or reimburse for them, and give you extra raises for getting them. and some employers won't give you anything for them. Knowing what will benefit you in the long run salary wise is worth investigating.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) John Andrew Holmes "It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifling exception, is composed of others."
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I've around 3 years of experience in .net as a web-developer(unlike other Indian programmers we CPians might've come across :-) ). I am planning to take up MCTS[^].Is it a good idea to take up this certification?. Can someone recommend me books that would help me in preparing for the same (I am not interested in dumps)? May I have your views on this? Thank you
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish, he'll eat for lifetime. Pradeep Joe
My recommendation is YES if you have time but make it a personal goal. Certification can be time consuming but it worth, if you do it for yourself. I can't recommend [A book] but try to get a Self Paced Training Kit (many books) but in the end you will learn a lot from it. These books are very good. 1. Applied Microsoft® .NET Framework Programming[^] 2. Professional C# 2005[^] But remember, make it a personal goal first!
1. I will develop myself to the maximum of my potential in all ways 2. I will look for the good in all people and make them feel worthwhile. 3. If I have nothing good to say about a person, I will say nothing. 4. I will always be as enthusiastic about the success of others as I am about my own. 5. I will always remain loyal to God, my country, family and my friends - Chuck Norris
Ernest Laurentin -
I've around 3 years of experience in .net as a web-developer(unlike other Indian programmers we CPians might've come across :-) ). I am planning to take up MCTS[^].Is it a good idea to take up this certification?. Can someone recommend me books that would help me in preparing for the same (I am not interested in dumps)? May I have your views on this? Thank you
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish, he'll eat for lifetime. Pradeep Joe
Joe wrote:
May I have your views on this?
Don't waste your time or money.
`
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I've around 3 years of experience in .net as a web-developer(unlike other Indian programmers we CPians might've come across :-) ). I am planning to take up MCTS[^].Is it a good idea to take up this certification?. Can someone recommend me books that would help me in preparing for the same (I am not interested in dumps)? May I have your views on this? Thank you
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish, he'll eat for lifetime. Pradeep Joe
Joe wrote:
Can someone recommend me books that would help
A couple of years ago I went through a variety of books to get ready for MS certification, I'd recommend keeping away from the MS press ones - they just don't have anywhere near enough content. I would recommend ones on Qua Publishing. I don't know if they have them for the current courses, like I said, this was about 2.5 years ago, and I know the certification programme has changed since then. These three were good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCAD-MCSD-Training-Guide-70-315/dp/0789728222/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211901269&sr=1-1[^] http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCAD-MCSD-Training-Guide-Developing/dp/0789728249/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211901269&sr=1-2[^] http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCAD-Training-Guide-70-316-Windows-based/dp/0789728230/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211901269&sr=1-4[^]
Joe wrote:
May I have your views on this?
Well, I went through the texts, learned a whole bunch of stuff, and never took the exams. I don't think I ever will, not unless MS changes the way they do the certification programme. Basically, you're tested on knowing a framework, which is important, but be honest - can't anyone learn a framework? I think they can. And the fact you know a framework does not give any indication of what sort of developer you will make. Because of this, I don't think it's worth a great deal.
- Dy
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Joe wrote:
Can someone recommend me books that would help
A couple of years ago I went through a variety of books to get ready for MS certification, I'd recommend keeping away from the MS press ones - they just don't have anywhere near enough content. I would recommend ones on Qua Publishing. I don't know if they have them for the current courses, like I said, this was about 2.5 years ago, and I know the certification programme has changed since then. These three were good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCAD-MCSD-Training-Guide-70-315/dp/0789728222/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211901269&sr=1-1[^] http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCAD-MCSD-Training-Guide-Developing/dp/0789728249/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211901269&sr=1-2[^] http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCAD-Training-Guide-70-316-Windows-based/dp/0789728230/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211901269&sr=1-4[^]
Joe wrote:
May I have your views on this?
Well, I went through the texts, learned a whole bunch of stuff, and never took the exams. I don't think I ever will, not unless MS changes the way they do the certification programme. Basically, you're tested on knowing a framework, which is important, but be honest - can't anyone learn a framework? I think they can. And the fact you know a framework does not give any indication of what sort of developer you will make. Because of this, I don't think it's worth a great deal.
- Dy
http://www.amazon.com/MCTS-Self-Paced-Training-Exam-70-536/dp/0735622779/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b[^] and it's partner are good ones.
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _______________________________________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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Impressive! Especially since the first .NET betas weren't even available until late 2000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_.NET#Microsoft_.NET[^]
My thought too :) First got my hands back on the alpha version in 2000 when I worked for an MS partner. Though I was leading the pack at 8 years experience.
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
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Joe wrote:
True, but knowledge and capability to deliver will be known when asked to do something.
In the mean time, these certified pretenders waste money, time, and other less tangible resources, thus driving up costs. Instead of firing people that lie on their resume, they should be shot and removed from the workforce altogether.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
In the mean time, these certified pretenders waste money, time, and other less tangible resources, thus driving up costs. Instead of firing people that lie on their resume, they should be shot and removed from the workforce altogether.
New line of business for you?
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
In the mean time, these certified pretenders waste money, time, and other less tangible resources, thus driving up costs. Instead of firing people that lie on their resume, they should be shot and removed from the workforce altogether.
New line of business for you?
I'm largely language agnostic
After a while they all bug me :doh:
Not at all...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Joe wrote:
Can someone recommend me books that would help
A couple of years ago I went through a variety of books to get ready for MS certification, I'd recommend keeping away from the MS press ones - they just don't have anywhere near enough content. I would recommend ones on Qua Publishing. I don't know if they have them for the current courses, like I said, this was about 2.5 years ago, and I know the certification programme has changed since then. These three were good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCAD-MCSD-Training-Guide-70-315/dp/0789728222/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211901269&sr=1-1[^] http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCAD-MCSD-Training-Guide-Developing/dp/0789728249/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211901269&sr=1-2[^] http://www.amazon.co.uk/MCAD-Training-Guide-70-316-Windows-based/dp/0789728230/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211901269&sr=1-4[^]
Joe wrote:
May I have your views on this?
Well, I went through the texts, learned a whole bunch of stuff, and never took the exams. I don't think I ever will, not unless MS changes the way they do the certification programme. Basically, you're tested on knowing a framework, which is important, but be honest - can't anyone learn a framework? I think they can. And the fact you know a framework does not give any indication of what sort of developer you will make. Because of this, I don't think it's worth a great deal.
- Dy
-Dy wrote:
Basically, you're tested on knowing a framework, which is important, but be honest - can't anyone learn a framework? I think they can. And the fact you know a framework does not give any indication of what sort of developer you will make
Most of the stuff on the 5 tests my company paid me to take on my way to becoming an MCSD had very little to do with specific areas of the framework. The tests ranged from "Defining .Net Solutions and Architectures" which was 100% case studies and abstract questions based on them.. to "Implementing Xml web Services and Server Components" which focused mainly on configuration(ports,MSMQ, and transactions) The others were more about The way the framework interacted with windows or what you needed to know to debug or secure your applications. These are, IMHO, very important for developers to know, and some of the main things that script kiddies seem to not realize. It's the people that recognize the value of that knowledge and translate it to their [potential] employer that really receive value from the certifications. To a young developer that may have to make many first impressions in their career, certifications can break down many barriers. Of course experience is generally > acronyms though ;) btw. Since I got my mcsd last year. my pay has gone up 20K, so i guess some employers care..
DrewG, MCSD .Net
modified on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 2:29 PM
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Joe wrote:
True, but knowledge and capability to deliver will be known when asked to do something.
In the mean time, these certified pretenders waste money, time, and other less tangible resources, thus driving up costs. Instead of firing people that lie on their resume, they should be shot and removed from the workforce altogether.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
they should be shot and removed from the workforce altogether.
I'm really surprised you would say this. I thought you were more of a traditionalist - you know, more like "strip them naked and horsewhip them".
Best wishes, Hans
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Impressive! Especially since the first .NET betas weren't even available until late 2000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_.NET#Microsoft_.NET[^]
duh. joke icon? get a clue?
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
