jobs.codeproject.com [modified]
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Hey All, I wonder, how "ethically" correct it is to create a web-site like, jobs.codeproject.com, within (please correct me if I am wrong) the codeproject.com site. The community at CP, is mostly doing what they do for free, and I don't think it is a good idea, to "use" this fact, in order to run a business like jobs.codeproject.com. In a way, it turns CP to a web-site which is masked under the name of a free software developer's community, while at the same time, its owners get highly paid by employers for running the job.codeproject.com service. In the very least case, I think these web-sites should be hosted on two different domains. Else, one will end up with a web-site offering jobs, and no more developers :). Please don't get furious :). Just putting my opinion, I am sure many have thought about this beforehand, and also I think, the reality might be a bit different then I described. So, simple clarifications (without swearings) and discussions would be welcome. PS. Another implication can be that, when one sees a "great" article by some programmer at CP, one does not know it anymore, whether it was done on a purely enthusiastic basis, or with the purpose to attract job seekers. Of course, this is always the case, since someone can link to his article on CP, but with this new approach it makes it even more obvious and noticable. PS2. I think that if the web-site goes on running, it should limit itself in terms of received vacancies, and not become very massive. Else, CP will turn into an employment agency, instead of a software developer community, after a while. Cheers.
Why are you not happy when CP got money? I'm absolutely fine if Chris become a richest man in the world :)
Thanks and Regards, Michael Sync ( Blog: http://michaelsync.net)
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Scott Dorman wrote:
The cost is charged to an employer who wants to post a job on the job board. It isn't charged to a CP member who wants to view the job board, apply to the job, etc.
Correct.
Sincerely, Elina Life is great!!! Enjoy every moment of it! :-O
But his assumption was not correct :).
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Why are you not happy when CP got money? I'm absolutely fine if Chris become a richest man in the world :)
Thanks and Regards, Michael Sync ( Blog: http://michaelsync.net)
Well, not that I am unhappy. I just think in the long-term, it can actually, be even harmful for CP.
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But his assumption was not correct :).
Why do you think so?
Sincerely, Elina Life is great!!! Enjoy every moment of it! :-O
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Can be true, since I have no idea how much the 'lifecycle' of running CP web-site costs, I just assumed, that such a massive job-site (targetting 5 million programmers), receiving reasonably high amount of money for a single job advertsiement, could still go far beyond the costs required for just running CP.
bigdenny200 wrote:
could still go far beyond the costs required for just running CP.
Let's assume it's true... my question is: So?
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Well, I think by charging around 300$ for one job listing, on the community of 5 million programmers, goes far beyond earning the costs of running several CP severs. Correct me if I am wrong again.
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Well, not that I am unhappy. I just think in the long-term, it can actually, be even harmful for CP.
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bigdenny200 wrote:
could still go far beyond the costs required for just running CP.
Let's assume it's true... my question is: So?
So, read my first forum post :).
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Well, not that I am unhappy. I just think in the long-term, it can actually, be even harmful for CP.
Employers are not stupid, man.. sooner or later, they will know 5 millions is the count of accounts or actual users... they will consider the result after posting the job ads here.. if there is so much benefits but pay so high then they won't do next time.. I'm thinking in chris's place.. if I were chris, i might also do the same thing.. as u know, there are a lot of tech article sites but CP is much better than other... CP allows us to disable Inline Text ads which is I hate the most. We don't need to go a lot of pages to read the whole article.. there is no big annoying ads at the middle or top of the article.. so, CP has done a lot of good things for us..
Thanks and Regards, Michael Sync ( Blog: http://michaelsync.net)
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Hey All, I wonder, how "ethically" correct it is to create a web-site like, jobs.codeproject.com, within (please correct me if I am wrong) the codeproject.com site. The community at CP, is mostly doing what they do for free, and I don't think it is a good idea, to "use" this fact, in order to run a business like jobs.codeproject.com. In a way, it turns CP to a web-site which is masked under the name of a free software developer's community, while at the same time, its owners get highly paid by employers for running the job.codeproject.com service. In the very least case, I think these web-sites should be hosted on two different domains. Else, one will end up with a web-site offering jobs, and no more developers :). Please don't get furious :). Just putting my opinion, I am sure many have thought about this beforehand, and also I think, the reality might be a bit different then I described. So, simple clarifications (without swearings) and discussions would be welcome. PS. Another implication can be that, when one sees a "great" article by some programmer at CP, one does not know it anymore, whether it was done on a purely enthusiastic basis, or with the purpose to attract job seekers. Of course, this is always the case, since someone can link to his article on CP, but with this new approach it makes it even more obvious and noticable. PS2. I think that if the web-site goes on running, it should limit itself in terms of received vacancies, and not become very massive. Else, CP will turn into an employment agency, instead of a software developer community, after a while. Cheers.
I have no problems at all with it. CodeProject is a great resource for developer's wishing to showcase their talent and knowledge, and a great place for prospective employers looking for the best (so long as they're clued up enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, and the best people here wouldn't want to work for someone who can't). It's win-win as far as I'm concerned.
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If they didn't charge they would get flooded by timewasters.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Well, one could filter out (bad) received job vacancies, and at least charge reasonably less amount, for advertisements. Actually, came to think now, maybe by charging this amount, CP tries to maintain high quality of job seekers? -- but what does that change, one could still do the filtering manually. At the very least, the idea should be to make the job web-site, relatively limited in terms of allowed job applications, and not make it too massive, else, it may over shade CP after a while :).
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Why do you think so?
Sincerely, Elina Life is great!!! Enjoy every moment of it! :-O
No, I mean that he thought I had got it backwards, but that was not the case. That's what I meant. :).
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Employers are not stupid, man.. sooner or later, they will know 5 millions is the count of accounts or actual users... they will consider the result after posting the job ads here.. if there is so much benefits but pay so high then they won't do next time.. I'm thinking in chris's place.. if I were chris, i might also do the same thing.. as u know, there are a lot of tech article sites but CP is much better than other... CP allows us to disable Inline Text ads which is I hate the most. We don't need to go a lot of pages to read the whole article.. there is no big annoying ads at the middle or top of the article.. so, CP has done a lot of good things for us..
Thanks and Regards, Michael Sync ( Blog: http://michaelsync.net)
I don't think you are a bigger fan of CP than I am. But, I mean that maintaining a (relatively expensive) massive job site, within a free software developer's community, could harm the community itself (in the long term).
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I don't think you are a bigger fan of CP than I am. But, I mean that maintaining a (relatively expensive) massive job site, within a free software developer's community, could harm the community itself (in the long term).
bigdenny200 wrote:
I don't think you are a bigger fan of CP than I am
maybe, you are right but at lease, I registered here since 2004, posted 2,004 messages (I was very active in CP ASP.NET forum last year but I'm active in CP Silverlight forum now) and 3 articles.
bigdenny200 wrote:
I mean that maintaining a (relatively expensive) massive job site, within a free software developer's community, could harm the community itself (in the long term).
yes.. this is also a good point.. I hope Chris will consider about that.. Have a nice day!
Thanks and Regards, Michael Sync ( Blog: http://michaelsync.net)
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bigdenny200 wrote:
I don't think you are a bigger fan of CP than I am
maybe, you are right but at lease, I registered here since 2004, posted 2,004 messages (I was very active in CP ASP.NET forum last year but I'm active in CP Silverlight forum now) and 3 articles.
bigdenny200 wrote:
I mean that maintaining a (relatively expensive) massive job site, within a free software developer's community, could harm the community itself (in the long term).
yes.. this is also a good point.. I hope Chris will consider about that.. Have a nice day!
Thanks and Regards, Michael Sync ( Blog: http://michaelsync.net)
Ok Michael, let's not compete in terms of the number of our contributions, since that also does not mean that you are a bigger fan of CP than I am :).
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Ok Michael, let's not compete in terms of the number of our contributions, since that also does not mean that you are a bigger fan of CP than I am :).
bigdenny200 wrote:
Ok Michael, let's not compete in terms of the number of our contributions, since that also does not mean that you are a bigger fan of CP than I am
haha. Yes.. :) Okay, man
Thanks and Regards, Michael Sync ( Blog: http://michaelsync.net)
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Hey All, I wonder, how "ethically" correct it is to create a web-site like, jobs.codeproject.com, within (please correct me if I am wrong) the codeproject.com site. The community at CP, is mostly doing what they do for free, and I don't think it is a good idea, to "use" this fact, in order to run a business like jobs.codeproject.com. In a way, it turns CP to a web-site which is masked under the name of a free software developer's community, while at the same time, its owners get highly paid by employers for running the job.codeproject.com service. In the very least case, I think these web-sites should be hosted on two different domains. Else, one will end up with a web-site offering jobs, and no more developers :). Please don't get furious :). Just putting my opinion, I am sure many have thought about this beforehand, and also I think, the reality might be a bit different then I described. So, simple clarifications (without swearings) and discussions would be welcome. PS. Another implication can be that, when one sees a "great" article by some programmer at CP, one does not know it anymore, whether it was done on a purely enthusiastic basis, or with the purpose to attract job seekers. Of course, this is always the case, since someone can link to his article on CP, but with this new approach it makes it even more obvious and noticable. PS2. I think that if the web-site goes on running, it should limit itself in terms of received vacancies, and not become very massive. Else, CP will turn into an employment agency, instead of a software developer community, after a while. Cheers.
Nothing in this world is free. It takes either time, money or a combination of both. Chris et all have put in both a built an outstanding community for us developers here on the web that I don't think anyone has ever gotten close to in terms of breath, depth, usability, and utility. So, while you could make an argument that this site is about and driven by the community, this community simply wouldn't exist without the site. In my opinion codeproject is unique.
bigdenny200 wrote:
its owners get highly paid by employers for running the job.codeproject.com service.
So what? What is wrong with somebody who provides a forum for you to show off you coding skills for free making some or even *gasp* lots of money? Will you summarily reject any solicitations you receive as a result of an outstanding article you post here?
bigdenny200 wrote:
PS. Another implication can be that, when one sees a "great" article by some programmer at CP, one does not know it anymore, whether it was done on a purely enthusiastic basis, or with the purpose to attract job seekers
Again, so what? Why does it even matter about the author's intent if the article is excellent and has helped or educated someone?
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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Hey All, I wonder, how "ethically" correct it is to create a web-site like, jobs.codeproject.com, within (please correct me if I am wrong) the codeproject.com site. The community at CP, is mostly doing what they do for free, and I don't think it is a good idea, to "use" this fact, in order to run a business like jobs.codeproject.com. In a way, it turns CP to a web-site which is masked under the name of a free software developer's community, while at the same time, its owners get highly paid by employers for running the job.codeproject.com service. In the very least case, I think these web-sites should be hosted on two different domains. Else, one will end up with a web-site offering jobs, and no more developers :). Please don't get furious :). Just putting my opinion, I am sure many have thought about this beforehand, and also I think, the reality might be a bit different then I described. So, simple clarifications (without swearings) and discussions would be welcome. PS. Another implication can be that, when one sees a "great" article by some programmer at CP, one does not know it anymore, whether it was done on a purely enthusiastic basis, or with the purpose to attract job seekers. Of course, this is always the case, since someone can link to his article on CP, but with this new approach it makes it even more obvious and noticable. PS2. I think that if the web-site goes on running, it should limit itself in terms of received vacancies, and not become very massive. Else, CP will turn into an employment agency, instead of a software developer community, after a while. Cheers.
Let me preface my comments by saying that I worked on this when I was at CP. So, I am not surprised to see it, nor am I likely to have ethical issues with it. If CP provides a free service, why is it wrong for them to also provide paid services, so long as they don't impinge on or change the offering to people who are using the site for free ? It's actually great for us - I have won tons of work through my CP articles, imagine how much more so I can point to my CP articles as part of my proof of experience, when the job is listed on CP ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
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Nothing in this world is free. It takes either time, money or a combination of both. Chris et all have put in both a built an outstanding community for us developers here on the web that I don't think anyone has ever gotten close to in terms of breath, depth, usability, and utility. So, while you could make an argument that this site is about and driven by the community, this community simply wouldn't exist without the site. In my opinion codeproject is unique.
bigdenny200 wrote:
its owners get highly paid by employers for running the job.codeproject.com service.
So what? What is wrong with somebody who provides a forum for you to show off you coding skills for free making some or even *gasp* lots of money? Will you summarily reject any solicitations you receive as a result of an outstanding article you post here?
bigdenny200 wrote:
PS. Another implication can be that, when one sees a "great" article by some programmer at CP, one does not know it anymore, whether it was done on a purely enthusiastic basis, or with the purpose to attract job seekers
Again, so what? Why does it even matter about the author's intent if the article is excellent and has helped or educated someone?
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
"Nothing in this world is free. It takes either time, money or a combination of both. Chris et all have put in both a built an outstanding community for us developers here on the web that I don't think anyone has ever gotten close to in terms of breath, depth, usability, and utility. So, while you could make an argument that this site is about and driven by the community, this community simply wouldn't exist without the site. In my opinion codeproject is unique." That was not necessary :). "Again, so what? Why does it even matter about the author's intent if the article is excellent and has helped or educated someone?" Well, it does matter, whether you know that someone educates others (as you say) just for fun, or whether he does it for some 'profits'. -- Again, my that argument, is ad-hoc, and not something one should raise so much discussions about. I will remove it. Since, as I elaborated later on, it is being done already, that some people use their articles as references in their CV's and that is totally OK. :).
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Let me preface my comments by saying that I worked on this when I was at CP. So, I am not surprised to see it, nor am I likely to have ethical issues with it. If CP provides a free service, why is it wrong for them to also provide paid services, so long as they don't impinge on or change the offering to people who are using the site for free ? It's actually great for us - I have won tons of work through my CP articles, imagine how much more so I can point to my CP articles as part of my proof of experience, when the job is listed on CP ?
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you "also I don't think "TranslateOneToTwoBillion OneHundredAndFortySevenMillion FourHundredAndEightyThreeThousand SixHundredAndFortySeven()" is a very good choice for a function name" - SpacixOne ( offering help to someone who really needed it ) ( spaces added for the benefit of people running at < 1280x1024 )
"If CP provides a free service, why is it wrong for them to also provide paid services, so long as they don't impinge on or change the offering to people who are using the site for free ? It's actually great for us - I have won tons of work through my CP articles, imagine how much more so I can point to my CP articles as part of my proof of experience, when the job is listed on CP ?" True, but as I said, CP should try to keep the job site relatively limited in terms of available vacancies. If this web-site becomes very massive, it will make CP look more like an employment agency; again, of course free job site is OK, but the ethical questions raises, when one sees 300$ as a charge for a single job vanancy advertisement within a free software developer community's web-site.
modified on Tuesday, June 3, 2008 2:49 PM