Microsoft Certification
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Hello Developers.. Just a quick question. I have just completed my Software Engineering course. Now i am planning to carry out certification course before i hunt for any job. As i am particularly interested in working as a .Net developer(web(ASP) + windows(C#) application). But in Uni there were no modules for .NET, and i guess with the knowledge of only C#.Net would not impress any employer. So while searching, i found few certification like MCSD, MCAD, MCPD etc.. Now i am confused which one should i go for and how much does it cost. Is it important to go to any training school to clear the exams or its not that hard and self study is all i need.. Cheers :) James
james_dixon_2008 wrote:
But in Uni there were no modules for .NET, and i guess with the knowledge of only C#.Net would not impress any employer.
As someone who has hired C# developers who don't have much (any) experience outside of university here are my thoughts. Certification is only worth it if you are going for a job with a Microsoft partner as your certification earns the company partner points. The more partner points the more benefits for the company. And the more they might be interested in hiring you. However, this only works to a point. Points based on certification is capped, so the benefit becomes less. Some non-partner companies may still value certification, but not so much. What I look for more than anything else is logical reasoning. Can I give you a problem and have you solve it? That is what most of software development is about. Sure, I need to know that you can program in the language we use, but that is easy to learn in comparison. In the interviews I give I will give you a piece of code with a bug in it and you have to (1) point out the bug and (2) offer a solution. Now, obviously, certification looks good on a CV so you'll be wanting it so you can get in the door for an interview. Instead I look for things that show interest and committment. Do you regularly go to user group meetings? (If not, why not?) Are you a member of an accredited body (BCS, IAP)? Are you contributor to an open source project? Have you published any articles? Have you spoken at events? Do you have a blog? I want to see something that shows me how interested you are in software development and your commitment to it.
Recent blog posts: * Event Organisation (Feedback) * LINQ to XML (part 4) * Scottish Developers June Newsletter My Blog
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I think all exams are a waste of time. If someone wouldn't hire me b/c I don't have one, they have failed my exam. Google and you'll find plenty of cheat sites for those exams, that's why anyone with any sense, knows they are worthless.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you. If you're still stuck, ask me for more information.
Reminds me of when I studied to get my MCSE back in '97. I was SOOO proud of myself, only to get PO'd a year later when every college and training shop spewed out MCSE's who couldn't tell the difference between a workgroup or a domain. Since then, I laugh at the certification process. :laugh:
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I think all exams are a waste of time. If someone wouldn't hire me b/c I don't have one, they have failed my exam. Google and you'll find plenty of cheat sites for those exams, that's why anyone with any sense, knows they are worthless.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you. If you're still stuck, ask me for more information.
Well i think there is no need for any degree as well as you can always learn by your own but still to make CV looks interesting, i guess its important these days. Plus exams would force to learn it quickly..
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james_dixon_2008 wrote:
But in Uni there were no modules for .NET, and i guess with the knowledge of only C#.Net would not impress any employer.
As someone who has hired C# developers who don't have much (any) experience outside of university here are my thoughts. Certification is only worth it if you are going for a job with a Microsoft partner as your certification earns the company partner points. The more partner points the more benefits for the company. And the more they might be interested in hiring you. However, this only works to a point. Points based on certification is capped, so the benefit becomes less. Some non-partner companies may still value certification, but not so much. What I look for more than anything else is logical reasoning. Can I give you a problem and have you solve it? That is what most of software development is about. Sure, I need to know that you can program in the language we use, but that is easy to learn in comparison. In the interviews I give I will give you a piece of code with a bug in it and you have to (1) point out the bug and (2) offer a solution. Now, obviously, certification looks good on a CV so you'll be wanting it so you can get in the door for an interview. Instead I look for things that show interest and committment. Do you regularly go to user group meetings? (If not, why not?) Are you a member of an accredited body (BCS, IAP)? Are you contributor to an open source project? Have you published any articles? Have you spoken at events? Do you have a blog? I want to see something that shows me how interested you are in software development and your commitment to it.
Recent blog posts: * Event Organisation (Feedback) * LINQ to XML (part 4) * Scottish Developers June Newsletter My Blog
very true..the main reason is to learn .NET and to improve CV..so which would be the best certification for me...
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Hello Developers.. Just a quick question. I have just completed my Software Engineering course. Now i am planning to carry out certification course before i hunt for any job. As i am particularly interested in working as a .Net developer(web(ASP) + windows(C#) application). But in Uni there were no modules for .NET, and i guess with the knowledge of only C#.Net would not impress any employer. So while searching, i found few certification like MCSD, MCAD, MCPD etc.. Now i am confused which one should i go for and how much does it cost. Is it important to go to any training school to clear the exams or its not that hard and self study is all i need.. Cheers :) James
Might I recommend the one of the following BSCS, MSCS, BSEE, MSEE certifications. They take longer to obtain, but are a better representation of your capabilities in an engineering discipline.
MrPlankton
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Reminds me of when I studied to get my MCSE back in '97. I was SOOO proud of myself, only to get PO'd a year later when every college and training shop spewed out MCSE's who couldn't tell the difference between a workgroup or a domain. Since then, I laugh at the certification process. :laugh:
I've seen companies that advertise to take a fee, sit the exam in your name, and send you the certificate.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you. If you're still stuck, ask me for more information.
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Might I recommend the one of the following BSCS, MSCS, BSEE, MSEE certifications. They take longer to obtain, but are a better representation of your capabilities in an engineering discipline.
MrPlankton
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Might I recommend the one of the following BSCS, MSCS, BSEE, MSEE certifications. They take longer to obtain, but are a better representation of your capabilities in an engineering discipline.
MrPlankton
They are not Microsoft certification my friend... Don't forget i have finished Software Engineering. I can get job like that too as i have got 1 yr experience as well...but i want to improve my CV wiv certifications and all...as i know i will not be bothered to do any, once i get into work life... n i don't think its so important to do Masters in computing...but will see later after gaining some more experience..innit.. cheers James
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Well i think there is no need for any degree as well as you can always learn by your own but still to make CV looks interesting, i guess its important these days. Plus exams would force to learn it quickly..
james_dixon_2008 wrote:
Plus exams would force to learn it quickly..
As was pointed out - there are many cheat sites around. A certification doesn't mean you've learned anything. You might do the honourable thing, but others might not - and how is a potential employer to tell? I would say it is getting to the stage that only employers who are MS partners will place any significance on certification and even then it is sketchy. I work for a Gold Partner and the last two developers we've taken on didn't have certification.
Recent blog posts: * Event Organisation (Feedback) * LINQ to XML (part 4) * Scottish Developers June Newsletter My Blog
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very true..the main reason is to learn .NET and to improve CV..so which would be the best certification for me...
james_dixon_2008 wrote:
very true..the main reason is to learn .NET and to improve CV..so which would be the best certification for me...
MCPD - If you must. Personally, I'd wait for an employer to pay for it.
Recent blog posts: * Event Organisation (Feedback) * LINQ to XML (part 4) * Scottish Developers June Newsletter My Blog
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They are not Microsoft certification my friend... Don't forget i have finished Software Engineering. I can get job like that too as i have got 1 yr experience as well...but i want to improve my CV wiv certifications and all...as i know i will not be bothered to do any, once i get into work life... n i don't think its so important to do Masters in computing...but will see later after gaining some more experience..innit.. cheers James
james_dixon_2008 wrote:
Don't forget i have finished Software Engineering.
Not if you intend to stay in this industry. If you don't like the idea of life long learning then you are in the wrong job.
Recent blog posts: * Event Organisation (Feedback) * LINQ to XML (part 4) * Scottish Developers June Newsletter My Blog
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Hello Developers.. Just a quick question. I have just completed my Software Engineering course. Now i am planning to carry out certification course before i hunt for any job. As i am particularly interested in working as a .Net developer(web(ASP) + windows(C#) application). But in Uni there were no modules for .NET, and i guess with the knowledge of only C#.Net would not impress any employer. So while searching, i found few certification like MCSD, MCAD, MCPD etc.. Now i am confused which one should i go for and how much does it cost. Is it important to go to any training school to clear the exams or its not that hard and self study is all i need.. Cheers :) James
Personally, I think you'd get more bang for you time buy working on a real-world commercial or open-source app. When you sit down to interview the big things are going to be knowing how to break down and solve problems as well as knowing your code.
james_dixon_2008 wrote:
So while searching, i found few certification like MCSD, MCAD, MCPD etc.. Now i am confused which one should i go for and how much does it cost.
I have no idea what any of these stand for :)
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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james_dixon_2008 wrote:
Don't forget i have finished Software Engineering.
Not if you intend to stay in this industry. If you don't like the idea of life long learning then you are in the wrong job.
Recent blog posts: * Event Organisation (Feedback) * LINQ to XML (part 4) * Scottish Developers June Newsletter My Blog
Yeh i know you need to update your self all the time with new technologies and i dont have any problems with that.....
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james_dixon_2008 wrote:
very true..the main reason is to learn .NET and to improve CV..so which would be the best certification for me...
MCPD - If you must. Personally, I'd wait for an employer to pay for it.
Recent blog posts: * Event Organisation (Feedback) * LINQ to XML (part 4) * Scottish Developers June Newsletter My Blog
okay cool. This looks interesting. So i can do this directly without doing any prior certification. How much does it cost anyway ?? Do employer pay for certifications and all ..on what circumstances...??
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I think all exams are a waste of time. If someone wouldn't hire me b/c I don't have one, they have failed my exam. Google and you'll find plenty of cheat sites for those exams, that's why anyone with any sense, knows they are worthless.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you. If you're still stuck, ask me for more information.
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I've seen companies that advertise to take a fee, sit the exam in your name, and send you the certificate.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you. If you're still stuck, ask me for more information.
I guess that validates why I start every interview at a beginner level and progressively advance from there.
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I think all exams are a waste of time. If someone wouldn't hire me b/c I don't have one, they have failed my exam. Google and you'll find plenty of cheat sites for those exams, that's why anyone with any sense, knows they are worthless.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you. If you're still stuck, ask me for more information.
When I read your first sentence (All exams are a waste of time), I voted 5 and thought "Isn't that enough? What more has he written?!". I read the remaining text and that made a lot of sense too. :)
Nobody can give you wiser advice than yourself. - Cicero .·´¯`·->Rajesh<-·´¯`·. Codeproject.com: Visual C++ MVP
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I think all exams are a waste of time. If someone wouldn't hire me b/c I don't have one, they have failed my exam. Google and you'll find plenty of cheat sites for those exams, that's why anyone with any sense, knows they are worthless.
Christian Graus Please read this if you don't understand the answer I've given you. If you're still stuck, ask me for more information.
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very true..the main reason is to learn .NET and to improve CV..so which would be the best certification for me...
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james_dixon_2008 wrote:
Plus exams would force to learn it quickly..
As was pointed out - there are many cheat sites around. A certification doesn't mean you've learned anything. You might do the honourable thing, but others might not - and how is a potential employer to tell? I would say it is getting to the stage that only employers who are MS partners will place any significance on certification and even then it is sketchy. I work for a Gold Partner and the last two developers we've taken on didn't have certification.
Recent blog posts: * Event Organisation (Feedback) * LINQ to XML (part 4) * Scottish Developers June Newsletter My Blog
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
I would say it is getting to the stage that only employers who are MS partners will place any significance on certification
You do see occasional job ads that ask for it. And it seems to be almost mandatory if you want to work for the consultancies such as Accenture. I was once asked at an interview if I'd considered doing certification. I can't recall exactly what i said but it wasn't an encouraging response. Needless to say I didn't get the contract. This was for one of the consultancy-type outfits. They probably also carry some weight in a downturn as a differentiator between candidates for scarce jobs. Same way that "must have at least an upper second in a numerate degree from a top 10 university" does. I saw quite a few of those in the 2001-2 downturn.
Kevin