9/5 or should that be ...
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Paul Watson here I'm honoured you gave up so much of your time to write such a long post becuase of something I said. :) Do you know how many people complain about working in late? There are many people here work till the early hours of the morning. Would you like to be like them? Or do u prefer to spend quality time with your gf/family? I know what I'd prefer to do. Fortunately, so does my boss. Yes I love having hours I can depend on: 9 to 5 is great. I know that when I get home I'll find my family around and not asleep becuase I got home at 1 in the morning. You are implicitly assuming stuff in your post which is not correct simply becuase you do not know my personal circumstances. I am 23 yrs old, just out of uni and hoping to do an MBA. If you've read my bio you'll know that my background is definetly not IT. I need a good job to pay for the MBA coz it's bloody expensive. We all want a Ferrari but before your run you first gotta learn how to walk. It's useless having high hopes and not doing anything about them. An MBA is the first step on a long road. The 9-5 hours gives me ample time to study the MBA. Now you see why I like the fixed hours? Coz it gives me time to do what I really want not what some drone from Head office decides. RE: yes I would prefer it if my brother (and everyone else for that matter) spent their time productively learning new things instead of vegatiting in front of the box. I try to fix my brother but I have no intention of fixing the world. First of all because it is unfixable and second, because I prefer to get rich instead of going round telling people what to do. The fundamental flaw in your argument is that you're assuming that life and work are (nearly) one and the same thing (you say: "At work and Not At Work. That is destructive"). In fact, I would posit the opposite. It all depends on the person. If you believe so much in your job great. But if like me it's a small step in the larger scheme of things than it's just a job. I do it well but it's still a job. paul watson wrote: "As you can see, 9/5 sickens me. People who kill dreams and hope, sicken me" So you think that working fixed hours kills u? Strange idea no? 9/5 does not kill dreams. Attitude does. "Money has nothing to do with the universe". Mistaken. Money is a form of power. The universe is, ultimately, nothing but the quest for survival. The more money you have the better are your chances. Paul, I'm getting the impression your a dreamer. Dreams are nice. I dream too. But I also keep my feet pla
:confused: man, i will vote this as the longest post i have ever seen in lounge :confused::confused::confused::confused:
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Brian Azzopardi wrote: universe is, ultimately, nothing but the quest for survival. Some would disagree and say that life is the quest for happiness. I too am one who doesn't like the idea of having a 'job' and a 'life' (and never the twain shall meet). But I've had my fair share of both and consider myself the luckiest guy in the world to be doing for 'work' what I was doing in my spare time anyway. As long as what you do makes you happy. Deferred gratification - making a sacrifice initially in order to make your life better further down the track - is definitely a worthy cause (as long as that 'down the track' doesn't stretch on forever and is never attained) cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: As long as what you do makes you happy Chris says in one sentence what I say in ten posts. :) regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
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*paul goes into a fit of apoplexy* Dear Brian Azzopardi, You have just with virtually every word in this post confirmed exactly what I am saying. The only difference is that you do not believe in the common man while I do. Why? Because I am a common man and I am making a good life for myself. I am not great, I am not special, I am not a unique snow flake compared to the rest. I am part of the mass, so are you. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Although life is a bitch I don't accept that its gonna be a bitch to me too. So I do something about. It seems you think the same way too. Others don't. Their problem. Well you obviously do not see the interconnectedness of life Brian. It is my problem that 80% of South Africans don't want to work and just want to get hand outs. It affects my life. It also makes me despair because every one of those 80% can make their lives better if they just worked and worked a bit smarter. So even if I was selfish, I would want everyone to better themselves. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Your comment about wanting the mass to rise above themselves is revealing. Do you seriously think that the mass is capable of doing that? And what proof have you of this? Yes. The proof is me, it is you and it is every other person who has ever gone on to do something great, of which there are many examples. Chris is an example for instance, do you deny it? Brian Azzopardi wrote: Do you know how close to Communism here? If communism is the belief that the common man can do great things, then call me a communist Brian. However from the little I know of communism, that is not what it is about. In fact it is all about the masses. It is about everyone pulling together, rather than in different directions. Great things have been achieved by one man, and great things have been achieved by many men. The industrial revolution was not one man. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Throughout human history there has always been suffering Yes and before this century it was also true that you could not speak to someone on the other side of the world without actually travelling to them. Obviously suffering is a far larger evil to overcome, but it is nonetheless a human created and human breakable condition. (obviously there will ALWAYS be some form of suffering. You cannot always get the girl or win the race. Eathquakes happen and people die. I am talking about poverty, abo
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Brian Azzopardi wrote: becuase I too am trying to rise above the teeming masses. You have me wrong. I do not want to rise above the teeming masses. I want the teeming masses to rise above themselves. I want everyone to have as good a life as they can make it. My success and everybody elses is not judged by me or by the norm or status quo. It is judged by the person who is looking to see if they are successful. I have no right to say anybody else is a failure, or even a success. But I have every right to judge myself. I do not want to have a wonderful life at the expense of others or even have a wonderful life while others are suffering. (though admitedly this last statement is probably not attainable within my life time, I can however still dream) Brian Azzopardi wrote: My "idol" so to speak is Socrates - always question what you know Or to add on to that: Always question what is presented to you. i.e. Don't just accept that you have to live a 9/5 existence to support your family. Question it, pull it apart. If afart pulling it apart you realise it is true, then by all means, do it. But just make dead sure you have pulled something apart before you ride it. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
Paul Watson wrote: But just make dead sure you have pulled something apart before you ride it *Jan kicks some of the more slippery parts of the now vertically challenged horse, -"Now where do I put THIS?..."* "After all it's just text at the end of the day. - Colin Davies
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peterchen wrote: definitely need an "essays on programming life" area here.. My post is not limited not programming life only but life in general. peterchen wrote: your boss can't force you to work long hours House rules or no house rules you'r boss can still make you work longer :( bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
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*paul goes into a fit of apoplexy* Dear Brian Azzopardi, You have just with virtually every word in this post confirmed exactly what I am saying. The only difference is that you do not believe in the common man while I do. Why? Because I am a common man and I am making a good life for myself. I am not great, I am not special, I am not a unique snow flake compared to the rest. I am part of the mass, so are you. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Although life is a bitch I don't accept that its gonna be a bitch to me too. So I do something about. It seems you think the same way too. Others don't. Their problem. Well you obviously do not see the interconnectedness of life Brian. It is my problem that 80% of South Africans don't want to work and just want to get hand outs. It affects my life. It also makes me despair because every one of those 80% can make their lives better if they just worked and worked a bit smarter. So even if I was selfish, I would want everyone to better themselves. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Your comment about wanting the mass to rise above themselves is revealing. Do you seriously think that the mass is capable of doing that? And what proof have you of this? Yes. The proof is me, it is you and it is every other person who has ever gone on to do something great, of which there are many examples. Chris is an example for instance, do you deny it? Brian Azzopardi wrote: Do you know how close to Communism here? If communism is the belief that the common man can do great things, then call me a communist Brian. However from the little I know of communism, that is not what it is about. In fact it is all about the masses. It is about everyone pulling together, rather than in different directions. Great things have been achieved by one man, and great things have been achieved by many men. The industrial revolution was not one man. Brian Azzopardi wrote: Throughout human history there has always been suffering Yes and before this century it was also true that you could not speak to someone on the other side of the world without actually travelling to them. Obviously suffering is a far larger evil to overcome, but it is nonetheless a human created and human breakable condition. (obviously there will ALWAYS be some form of suffering. You cannot always get the girl or win the race. Eathquakes happen and people die. I am talking about poverty, abo
Dear Paul Watson, Paul Watson wrote: *paul goes into a fit of apoplexy* Please sit and calm down. Stress is bad for your heart you know :) Paul Watson wrote: Why? Because I am a common man and I am making a good life for myself. I am not great, I am not special, I am not a unique snow flake compared to the rest. I am part of the mass, so are you. We are all snowflakes coz we are all different. We are all unique. And to our family and loved ones we are special. But that's not the definition of special which I will talk about. You are right; I do not believe in the common man, even if I may be one myself. Common man leads a common life. QED. You say you're one of them and yet you argue that we should all wake up to our possibilities: it takes more than a common man to do that Paul. And it most definetly requires an uncommon man to realize those possibilities. Do you seriously believe that we can all become great artists/musicians/Jack Welches? If so you're naive and don't understand human nature. Some are taller than others, or fatter, or more good-lucking or more intelligent or more artistic. The average man is average in all these areas. I prefer to set my sights higher (and yes I do know that I'm coming across as being elitist). I do not deny that life is interconnected. In fact that's one of the reasons why I contend that life is a bitch. Because of somebody elses mistakes I have to suffer too. That's not fair is it? Ah well *sigh* Paul Watson wrote: you and it is every other person who has ever gone on to do something great If a person emerges as being great than he was never part of the masses in the first place. They were either considered strange or deranged (Van Gogh) or high ranking individuals (Newton). This is less so today (Fermi, Einstein were "normal" people although Picasso was both strange and a bloody bastard). Paul Watson wrote: If communism is the belief that the common man can do great things, then call me a communist Brian. However from the little I know of communism, that is not what it is about. Let me tell you what it is about: it is believing that man can totally remake society in any way he chooses. It is about building a utopia. It is about setting the common man free. It is alot of nice-sounding ideas written by a man who was the product of his age. Marx lived at a time where science/technology was advancing at an incredible rate. He was
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You're my new hero. Eloquently put. :)
Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.
I can understand why you say that. Both of you are essentially idealistic and hope to improve the world and build a utopia (some of you on the left anyway). Enjoy your dreams! I envy you that you're able to believe in something which reality (for 70% of the world out there) proves mistaken every day. I can't bring myself to believe an illusion or cling to one. bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
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Paul Watson here I'm honoured you gave up so much of your time to write such a long post becuase of something I said. :) Do you know how many people complain about working in late? There are many people here work till the early hours of the morning. Would you like to be like them? Or do u prefer to spend quality time with your gf/family? I know what I'd prefer to do. Fortunately, so does my boss. Yes I love having hours I can depend on: 9 to 5 is great. I know that when I get home I'll find my family around and not asleep becuase I got home at 1 in the morning. You are implicitly assuming stuff in your post which is not correct simply becuase you do not know my personal circumstances. I am 23 yrs old, just out of uni and hoping to do an MBA. If you've read my bio you'll know that my background is definetly not IT. I need a good job to pay for the MBA coz it's bloody expensive. We all want a Ferrari but before your run you first gotta learn how to walk. It's useless having high hopes and not doing anything about them. An MBA is the first step on a long road. The 9-5 hours gives me ample time to study the MBA. Now you see why I like the fixed hours? Coz it gives me time to do what I really want not what some drone from Head office decides. RE: yes I would prefer it if my brother (and everyone else for that matter) spent their time productively learning new things instead of vegatiting in front of the box. I try to fix my brother but I have no intention of fixing the world. First of all because it is unfixable and second, because I prefer to get rich instead of going round telling people what to do. The fundamental flaw in your argument is that you're assuming that life and work are (nearly) one and the same thing (you say: "At work and Not At Work. That is destructive"). In fact, I would posit the opposite. It all depends on the person. If you believe so much in your job great. But if like me it's a small step in the larger scheme of things than it's just a job. I do it well but it's still a job. paul watson wrote: "As you can see, 9/5 sickens me. People who kill dreams and hope, sicken me" So you think that working fixed hours kills u? Strange idea no? 9/5 does not kill dreams. Attitude does. "Money has nothing to do with the universe". Mistaken. Money is a form of power. The universe is, ultimately, nothing but the quest for survival. The more money you have the better are your chances. Paul, I'm getting the impression your a dreamer. Dreams are nice. I dream too. But I also keep my feet pla
I'll be working this Sunday because our release is next week. I get paid for 36 hours a week and I do 45 minimum. I also set myself tasks at home that relate to my job and especially skills I see myself needing in the future ( currently it's XML in C# ). I make more than enough money to maintain my lifestyle and buy the toys I want, and beyond that, I agree that 'money has nothing to do with the universe'. Money does not make me happy, my job and my family make me happy, and I consider myself the luckiest guy alive that I literally would do my job for free if it was not paying and I did not need the money. Everyone needs to make enough so they don't have to worry about money, but that is not what life is about. I heard two people on the bus talking about how much they hate their jobs but they are sticking it out for their long service leave and their super so they can retire at 55. That's not life, that's a life sentence. But I agree with you, the difference is attitude. Had I not been willing to teach myself and have a go, I'd still be hating being a sales rep. Christian We're just observing the seasonal migration from VB to VC. Most of these birds will be killed by predators or will die of hunger. Only the best will survive - Tomasz Sowinski 29-07-2002 ( on the number of newbie posters in the VC forum )
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I can understand why you say that. Both of you are essentially idealistic and hope to improve the world and build a utopia (some of you on the left anyway). Enjoy your dreams! I envy you that you're able to believe in something which reality (for 70% of the world out there) proves mistaken every day. I can't bring myself to believe an illusion or cling to one. bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]
My idealistic views have come with age - when I was your age I was a much angrier and less-informed person than I am today (and before you leap to a conclusion, I'm not saying you are ill-informed - but I certainly was). Perhaps your views will change over time like mine have. When I was a teenager, for example, I swallowed a whole load of right-wing rhetoric about how immigration was going to be the death of the UK. Thank God I saw the light! I don't think I am dreaming - people can make a difference. Could the West do more to help feed the starving if they wanted to? Yes. Could the West make life better for the other 70% of the world? Yes, of course they could - all it takes is enough people to have the WILL to make it happen - a pipedream perhaps, but that doesn't make it any less worthwhile. Education is the key - if people are more aware of what is going on in the rest of the world, then perhaps they will be more inclined to try to do something about it. If everyone sat back and thought "I can't make a difference, so I won't even try" then we'd be nowhere. :rose:
Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.
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I'll be working this Sunday because our release is next week. I get paid for 36 hours a week and I do 45 minimum. I also set myself tasks at home that relate to my job and especially skills I see myself needing in the future ( currently it's XML in C# ). I make more than enough money to maintain my lifestyle and buy the toys I want, and beyond that, I agree that 'money has nothing to do with the universe'. Money does not make me happy, my job and my family make me happy, and I consider myself the luckiest guy alive that I literally would do my job for free if it was not paying and I did not need the money. Everyone needs to make enough so they don't have to worry about money, but that is not what life is about. I heard two people on the bus talking about how much they hate their jobs but they are sticking it out for their long service leave and their super so they can retire at 55. That's not life, that's a life sentence. But I agree with you, the difference is attitude. Had I not been willing to teach myself and have a go, I'd still be hating being a sales rep. Christian We're just observing the seasonal migration from VB to VC. Most of these birds will be killed by predators or will die of hunger. Only the best will survive - Tomasz Sowinski 29-07-2002 ( on the number of newbie posters in the VC forum )
Yay! Totally. Quality of life is far more important to me than a fat salary - I could of been a contractor and slogged it out working in London day-in-day-out for big ££££ - but I know I would of *HATED* it. Instead I have a job that pays me a decent wage for doing something I love, with decent perks like working from home. No commuting, no stress. I'll take quality over cash any day of the week.
Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.
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Paul Watson here I'm honoured you gave up so much of your time to write such a long post becuase of something I said. :) Do you know how many people complain about working in late? There are many people here work till the early hours of the morning. Would you like to be like them? Or do u prefer to spend quality time with your gf/family? I know what I'd prefer to do. Fortunately, so does my boss. Yes I love having hours I can depend on: 9 to 5 is great. I know that when I get home I'll find my family around and not asleep becuase I got home at 1 in the morning. You are implicitly assuming stuff in your post which is not correct simply becuase you do not know my personal circumstances. I am 23 yrs old, just out of uni and hoping to do an MBA. If you've read my bio you'll know that my background is definetly not IT. I need a good job to pay for the MBA coz it's bloody expensive. We all want a Ferrari but before your run you first gotta learn how to walk. It's useless having high hopes and not doing anything about them. An MBA is the first step on a long road. The 9-5 hours gives me ample time to study the MBA. Now you see why I like the fixed hours? Coz it gives me time to do what I really want not what some drone from Head office decides. RE: yes I would prefer it if my brother (and everyone else for that matter) spent their time productively learning new things instead of vegatiting in front of the box. I try to fix my brother but I have no intention of fixing the world. First of all because it is unfixable and second, because I prefer to get rich instead of going round telling people what to do. The fundamental flaw in your argument is that you're assuming that life and work are (nearly) one and the same thing (you say: "At work and Not At Work. That is destructive"). In fact, I would posit the opposite. It all depends on the person. If you believe so much in your job great. But if like me it's a small step in the larger scheme of things than it's just a job. I do it well but it's still a job. paul watson wrote: "As you can see, 9/5 sickens me. People who kill dreams and hope, sicken me" So you think that working fixed hours kills u? Strange idea no? 9/5 does not kill dreams. Attitude does. "Money has nothing to do with the universe". Mistaken. Money is a form of power. The universe is, ultimately, nothing but the quest for survival. The more money you have the better are your chances. Paul, I'm getting the impression your a dreamer. Dreams are nice. I dream too. But I also keep my feet pla
I'm not going to write much. Just a couple of points. 1. I get paid by the hour. I turn up at 7am, and leave at 5 on the nail, barring any disasters in the production system - v. rare. If I worked all hours, I wouldn't have a life, and I wouldn't see my wife. 2. Single young people work long hours. They don't have a wife/children to go home to, and they still think that whatever you put into a company you'll get back some other way. After a few years, you realise that in the same way as spending expands proportionally to earnings, the workload expands exponentially to hours put in. I love my job, but I know when to draw the line. My job provides the means (cash) for me to live the life I want to live. The fact that I can earn that cash programming (which is a hobby to me) is great. But it's not what I live for. I've never found a company which deserves to have more hours put in than the absolute necessary. Such loyalty will be forgotten when the chips are down. (oops, this was longer than I intended after all!)
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Dear Paul Watson, Paul Watson wrote: *paul goes into a fit of apoplexy* Please sit and calm down. Stress is bad for your heart you know :) Paul Watson wrote: Why? Because I am a common man and I am making a good life for myself. I am not great, I am not special, I am not a unique snow flake compared to the rest. I am part of the mass, so are you. We are all snowflakes coz we are all different. We are all unique. And to our family and loved ones we are special. But that's not the definition of special which I will talk about. You are right; I do not believe in the common man, even if I may be one myself. Common man leads a common life. QED. You say you're one of them and yet you argue that we should all wake up to our possibilities: it takes more than a common man to do that Paul. And it most definetly requires an uncommon man to realize those possibilities. Do you seriously believe that we can all become great artists/musicians/Jack Welches? If so you're naive and don't understand human nature. Some are taller than others, or fatter, or more good-lucking or more intelligent or more artistic. The average man is average in all these areas. I prefer to set my sights higher (and yes I do know that I'm coming across as being elitist). I do not deny that life is interconnected. In fact that's one of the reasons why I contend that life is a bitch. Because of somebody elses mistakes I have to suffer too. That's not fair is it? Ah well *sigh* Paul Watson wrote: you and it is every other person who has ever gone on to do something great If a person emerges as being great than he was never part of the masses in the first place. They were either considered strange or deranged (Van Gogh) or high ranking individuals (Newton). This is less so today (Fermi, Einstein were "normal" people although Picasso was both strange and a bloody bastard). Paul Watson wrote: If communism is the belief that the common man can do great things, then call me a communist Brian. However from the little I know of communism, that is not what it is about. Let me tell you what it is about: it is believing that man can totally remake society in any way he chooses. It is about building a utopia. It is about setting the common man free. It is alot of nice-sounding ideas written by a man who was the product of his age. Marx lived at a time where science/technology was advancing at an incredible rate. He was
You did ask for this... :-D Brian Azzopardi wrote: Do you seriously believe that we can all become great artists/musicians/Jack Welches? Yes I do. When Jack Welch was yay high *indicates 4ft off the ground* there were kids around him and he was no different then. He simply happened to grow up and realise that he could achieve whatever he set his mind to. It was not because he was smarter than all of us. Or he was better looking or had a suave accent which wooed everyone. He was a normal bloke, like you and me. Why do you think Yo Yo Ma is a great celloist? No extra fingers. Same ears. He is great because he worked at it day and night. He was not born great, he made himself great. Lets take a more "achievable" thing: Chris Maunder who created this site with the sweat on his back. You think he woke up one morning and Microsoft gave him a ton of money and said "Hey Chris, you are a decent chap, make a website or something. We don't know, just like do something?" What makes Chris different from you and me? In my eyes the only difference is that he took a risk and went for it. He has created a beautiful thing. Don't get me wrong, he is a smart chap. But so are you, so am I. I just don't have quite that focus yet I guess. I am working on it. I can waffle on but here is a quote I like: The difference between a successful person & others is not a lack of strength nor a lack of knoweledge, but a lack of will. My "boss" could not code a HTML page to save his life. But his company which is doing rather well makes web sites. He worked hard at finding the right people, the right clients and pulling it all together. I know him, he is no different to me or you or the rubbish man. He however stood up, took a risk. (he also thinks 9/5 would kill him :-D ) Brian Azzopardi wrote: Yet only one (or a few others) made a huge difference buy speaking up. Out of all the masses who suffer from AIDS, only a few rose to greatness. Does that explain why I lack faith in d masses? No. The reason why only a few rose to greatness is because the rest do not know their own ability. Not because they lack it, but because our society conditions them to believe they are diseased, sick and useless. They just need a push which the ones who did become great obviously recieved. Society has conditioned you to believe that the masses are useless or only good enough to pull plows and push buttons in the auto-plant. Brian Azzopardi wrote:
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I'll be working this Sunday because our release is next week. I get paid for 36 hours a week and I do 45 minimum. I also set myself tasks at home that relate to my job and especially skills I see myself needing in the future ( currently it's XML in C# ). I make more than enough money to maintain my lifestyle and buy the toys I want, and beyond that, I agree that 'money has nothing to do with the universe'. Money does not make me happy, my job and my family make me happy, and I consider myself the luckiest guy alive that I literally would do my job for free if it was not paying and I did not need the money. Everyone needs to make enough so they don't have to worry about money, but that is not what life is about. I heard two people on the bus talking about how much they hate their jobs but they are sticking it out for their long service leave and their super so they can retire at 55. That's not life, that's a life sentence. But I agree with you, the difference is attitude. Had I not been willing to teach myself and have a go, I'd still be hating being a sales rep. Christian We're just observing the seasonal migration from VB to VC. Most of these birds will be killed by predators or will die of hunger. Only the best will survive - Tomasz Sowinski 29-07-2002 ( on the number of newbie posters in the VC forum )
Christian Graus wrote: That's not life, that's a life sentence Well said Christian. Christian Graus wrote: But I agree with you, the difference is attitude. Had I not been willing to teach myself and have a go, I'd still be hating being a sales rep. How did you change your attitude Christian? What made you say "to hell with this, this is my life and I am going to do something I want to do, not have to do." ? For me it was my dad (who I do love and adore) who made me see how 9/5 is a life sentence, not a life. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
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You did ask for this... :-D Brian Azzopardi wrote: Do you seriously believe that we can all become great artists/musicians/Jack Welches? Yes I do. When Jack Welch was yay high *indicates 4ft off the ground* there were kids around him and he was no different then. He simply happened to grow up and realise that he could achieve whatever he set his mind to. It was not because he was smarter than all of us. Or he was better looking or had a suave accent which wooed everyone. He was a normal bloke, like you and me. Why do you think Yo Yo Ma is a great celloist? No extra fingers. Same ears. He is great because he worked at it day and night. He was not born great, he made himself great. Lets take a more "achievable" thing: Chris Maunder who created this site with the sweat on his back. You think he woke up one morning and Microsoft gave him a ton of money and said "Hey Chris, you are a decent chap, make a website or something. We don't know, just like do something?" What makes Chris different from you and me? In my eyes the only difference is that he took a risk and went for it. He has created a beautiful thing. Don't get me wrong, he is a smart chap. But so are you, so am I. I just don't have quite that focus yet I guess. I am working on it. I can waffle on but here is a quote I like: The difference between a successful person & others is not a lack of strength nor a lack of knoweledge, but a lack of will. My "boss" could not code a HTML page to save his life. But his company which is doing rather well makes web sites. He worked hard at finding the right people, the right clients and pulling it all together. I know him, he is no different to me or you or the rubbish man. He however stood up, took a risk. (he also thinks 9/5 would kill him :-D ) Brian Azzopardi wrote: Yet only one (or a few others) made a huge difference buy speaking up. Out of all the masses who suffer from AIDS, only a few rose to greatness. Does that explain why I lack faith in d masses? No. The reason why only a few rose to greatness is because the rest do not know their own ability. Not because they lack it, but because our society conditions them to believe they are diseased, sick and useless. They just need a push which the ones who did become great obviously recieved. Society has conditioned you to believe that the masses are useless or only good enough to pull plows and push buttons in the auto-plant. Brian Azzopardi wrote:
I'm getting the feeling this whole thread is getting rather long winded but here goes... You mention Mandela, then you go on to mention your boss. With all due respect to you boss i do think there is a difference. You boss is successful but Mandela is a great man. I think we were not understading each other or were using the wrong words. Most people in life have the chance to be successful. What interests me however is greatness. When I mean great I mean a genius either artistically, scientifically or in statesmanship. And here is were the difference lies. We can all try to emulate successful people yet to be a great artist: well I'd like to see anyone try *real* hard and go down in history as one. Having said that I'm not saying that only geniuses matter. People who achieve success matter and also serve as an inspiration to us all. That's why we should always hope. Paul Watson wrote: that a lot of the things we do are pointless Excuse my impudance, but who are you to say what other people do is pointless? I think bird-hunting is cruel and pointless. But that's just me. Millions around the world do it. Paul Watson wrote: Yes Brian. What else is needed to achieve? Magic fairy dust? Alien technology? You think that by having a few good men the world will become evil-free? In that case boy do you need fairy dust! If what u mean is that if we all pulled together the world would be a better place than i agree with you with all my heart! But were I do not agree with you is that you seem to think that this is possible: that it is possible to turn the people into a decent, law-abiding, god-fearing citizens who will not commit robbery, murder, rape, genocide, shoot nukes into each other's back yard, force people into slavery and let entire populations starve etc. As I already said in a previous post: wishing that people would get along together and solve the world's problems is nice but will *not* happen. You think I like this? I abhor the motives and the people who do not care about others. But what can I do about it? Kill these people? Try to educate them? Do u seriously think that educating all the evil people in the world would work? And who decides who is evil? Some people argue that those in favour of abortion are evil. Do we include those too? Or just 50% so that both sides can reach a compromise. Paul Watson wrote: Yes, if the whole North Korean nation stood up and told the government too sod off they would be free.
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You did ask for this... :-D Brian Azzopardi wrote: Do you seriously believe that we can all become great artists/musicians/Jack Welches? Yes I do. When Jack Welch was yay high *indicates 4ft off the ground* there were kids around him and he was no different then. He simply happened to grow up and realise that he could achieve whatever he set his mind to. It was not because he was smarter than all of us. Or he was better looking or had a suave accent which wooed everyone. He was a normal bloke, like you and me. Why do you think Yo Yo Ma is a great celloist? No extra fingers. Same ears. He is great because he worked at it day and night. He was not born great, he made himself great. Lets take a more "achievable" thing: Chris Maunder who created this site with the sweat on his back. You think he woke up one morning and Microsoft gave him a ton of money and said "Hey Chris, you are a decent chap, make a website or something. We don't know, just like do something?" What makes Chris different from you and me? In my eyes the only difference is that he took a risk and went for it. He has created a beautiful thing. Don't get me wrong, he is a smart chap. But so are you, so am I. I just don't have quite that focus yet I guess. I am working on it. I can waffle on but here is a quote I like: The difference between a successful person & others is not a lack of strength nor a lack of knoweledge, but a lack of will. My "boss" could not code a HTML page to save his life. But his company which is doing rather well makes web sites. He worked hard at finding the right people, the right clients and pulling it all together. I know him, he is no different to me or you or the rubbish man. He however stood up, took a risk. (he also thinks 9/5 would kill him :-D ) Brian Azzopardi wrote: Yet only one (or a few others) made a huge difference buy speaking up. Out of all the masses who suffer from AIDS, only a few rose to greatness. Does that explain why I lack faith in d masses? No. The reason why only a few rose to greatness is because the rest do not know their own ability. Not because they lack it, but because our society conditions them to believe they are diseased, sick and useless. They just need a push which the ones who did become great obviously recieved. Society has conditioned you to believe that the masses are useless or only good enough to pull plows and push buttons in the auto-plant. Brian Azzopardi wrote:
Paul Watson wrote: Do you seriously believe that we can all become great artists/musicians/Jack Welches? Yes I do. When Jack Welch was yay high *indicates 4ft off the ground* there were kids around him and he was no different then. I will try to be totally polite here. This is , of course, bullshit. It is the Woody Guthrie approach to life. All of us can be what we want to be. No you can't . It is a matter of talent, genetics, and luck. I have played guitar for over 40 years - have played on a professional basis - have devoted countless hours of study both on theory and practical application on the instrument. Yet- I am no Joe Pass, I am no Tal Farlow. I was not gifted with Joe's ear nor with Tal's hands. No amount of dedication , no number of hours work, no amount of time and money spent taking lessons will overcome this. The quicker I realize this the better off I will be. If you have ever studied physics then you must be in awe of the general theory and the special theory as presented by Uncle Albert. How many among us, looking at the same facts that he did , could assemble those facts into the coherence of structure that he did. Even now there are probably no more that 20-30 people in the world that can say with any amount of truth that they even UNDERSTAND the damn things ( Hello Mr. Hawkings ). Was this a matter of dedication and determination or was AE's brain just wired a little different than most of us. Paul Watson wrote: Brian Azzopardi wrote: I may not be one of them, but boy am i trying! And that is all we need. For everyone to try. That is all the great amongst have done, all they did was try and not give up. Think about this in terms of math. If you have a set of numbers N that has a relationship of Y to each other and you apply a function to that set of numbers does the realtionship change ? Only in some special cases but in general no. The masses of today - the common man - is much better educated than the royality of 500 years ago. But because EVERYONE is better educated than they are not elevated above the mass. It is always the individual, blessed in some cosmic way, that creates change. He rises above the sea of humanity and does something great and unique. The rest of us can only watch and wonder because we don't have the "gift". Paul Watson wrote: Brian Azzopardi wrote: The north korean regime prefers to keep its population starving than lose power. That is a common theme throught h
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Christian Graus wrote: That's not life, that's a life sentence Well said Christian. Christian Graus wrote: But I agree with you, the difference is attitude. Had I not been willing to teach myself and have a go, I'd still be hating being a sales rep. How did you change your attitude Christian? What made you say "to hell with this, this is my life and I am going to do something I want to do, not have to do." ? For me it was my dad (who I do love and adore) who made me see how 9/5 is a life sentence, not a life. regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love, and to be loved in return - Moulin Rouge Alison Pentland wrote: I now have an image of you in front of the mirror in the morning, wearing your knickers, socks and shoes trying to decided if they match!
Paul Watson wrote: How did you change your attitude Christian? I kind of fell into sales, and it wasn't too bad a job, I just got sick of it with time. I also realised that young sales reps are cool and dynamic, but old sales reps are bitter and cynical. The main thing was that I turned 30 and realised my life really WAS happening around me, and that I wanted to do more than tolerate my job, and I that I'd always loved programming, so I bought some books and started to teach myself. Christian We're just observing the seasonal migration from VB to VC. Most of these birds will be killed by predators or will die of hunger. Only the best will survive - Tomasz Sowinski 29-07-2002 ( on the number of newbie posters in the VC forum )
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Paul Watson wrote: Do you seriously believe that we can all become great artists/musicians/Jack Welches? Yes I do. When Jack Welch was yay high *indicates 4ft off the ground* there were kids around him and he was no different then. I will try to be totally polite here. This is , of course, bullshit. It is the Woody Guthrie approach to life. All of us can be what we want to be. No you can't . It is a matter of talent, genetics, and luck. I have played guitar for over 40 years - have played on a professional basis - have devoted countless hours of study both on theory and practical application on the instrument. Yet- I am no Joe Pass, I am no Tal Farlow. I was not gifted with Joe's ear nor with Tal's hands. No amount of dedication , no number of hours work, no amount of time and money spent taking lessons will overcome this. The quicker I realize this the better off I will be. If you have ever studied physics then you must be in awe of the general theory and the special theory as presented by Uncle Albert. How many among us, looking at the same facts that he did , could assemble those facts into the coherence of structure that he did. Even now there are probably no more that 20-30 people in the world that can say with any amount of truth that they even UNDERSTAND the damn things ( Hello Mr. Hawkings ). Was this a matter of dedication and determination or was AE's brain just wired a little different than most of us. Paul Watson wrote: Brian Azzopardi wrote: I may not be one of them, but boy am i trying! And that is all we need. For everyone to try. That is all the great amongst have done, all they did was try and not give up. Think about this in terms of math. If you have a set of numbers N that has a relationship of Y to each other and you apply a function to that set of numbers does the realtionship change ? Only in some special cases but in general no. The masses of today - the common man - is much better educated than the royality of 500 years ago. But because EVERYONE is better educated than they are not elevated above the mass. It is always the individual, blessed in some cosmic way, that creates change. He rises above the sea of humanity and does something great and unique. The rest of us can only watch and wonder because we don't have the "gift". Paul Watson wrote: Brian Azzopardi wrote: The north korean regime prefers to keep its population starving than lose power. That is a common theme throught h
Well said! Richard Stringer wrote: To this I can only say that youth is wasted on the young. A study of history is in order. A study of history is essential! How else will the idealists learn what their forbears tried to do & why they will always fail!?! bibamus, edamus, cras moriemur
[eat, drink, for tomorrow we die]