Surviving overtime
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In my opinion you should not let your exercise slip. Especially if you are looking at 10 hour days sitting in a soul killing cubicle or "open work area". I'd also take at least two brisk walks a day to break the cycle. Third, make sure that you aren't just showing up to keep up appearances.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
take at least two brisk walks a day to break the cycle
Yep. One place I used to work at, everyone did that. It was located in a nice industrial park that had a big park across the street. It did take a lot of dread of the daily grind out.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Just to add to your gloom, be prepared to not receive the lump sum. They'll think of some reason.
Yep. We used to get paid in terms of pizzas and it was cool at first, but after a few friday's with over 4 hours of overtime (on salary with no time and a half), the idea got old fast.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Just to add to your gloom, be prepared to not receive the lump sum. They'll think of some reason.
You left of the bit that his company would be purchased by a private holding company and all of his stock options would be voided.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Don't overdo it on the caffeine. You don't want heart conditions! 2 hours a day extra when you're really busy is nothing, 2 hours a day when you're sat on your @55 doing nothing is tough
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Hopefully you have a decent work environment, if you can joke around with people it helps, or have a decent to good working relationship with them. I've done several 24+ hour shifts at this job, mostly installing new hardware, so it keeps you busy until its time to wait for the db to copy itself to the new box.. The worst thing for me is working late, coming in early for someone else's mistakes, it doesnt bother me at all to come in early 6, 6 30 am and stay late if i'm doing my work and can get into it. While you may not finish or may get looked down upon if people dont help each other, i would highly recomend sticking to your tasks and making sure they are perfect before you offer help or let yourself be roped into something else, i find nothing more demoralizing in a time crunch than rushing to fix someone else's mistakes. i would also highly recomend doing whatever it is you do for strees relief, or general fun, whenever you have time..i personally like to play GTA 4, anything that you dont really have to think about and can be immersed in helps me. also keep up on your sleep, or get some really good coffee.
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Chris Austin wrote:
take at least two brisk walks a day to break the cycle
Yep. One place I used to work at, everyone did that. It was located in a nice industrial park that had a big park across the street. It did take a lot of dread of the daily grind out.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
Oh yeah. I picked up the habit when I was working 18 hour shifts at Samsung in S. Korea. It was the only thing I could do to not fall asleep or make an error that would do serious damage to a very expensive piece of equipment.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Phannon wrote:
due to incompitent planning by the project manager
Has the project manager been fired? I would stipulate that.
Phannon wrote:
our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time.
So, you're going to put in an extra 2 hours a day, assuming you'll: 1) actually get the lump sum 2) actually get done on time That's a losing situation. The company should pay you in advance for your extra work. I know it sounds ridiculous, but realistically, you will be putting in all this extra effort and something will happen to make you miss your deadline, or as someone else commented already, the company will find some excuse not to pay you. Remember, the company is making you assume all the risk. Why not have them take on some of the risk, and pay you up front? Why should you and your team take on the risk? My 2c. Which I know won't fly. Marc
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Oh yeah. I picked up the habit when I was working 18 hour shifts at Samsung in S. Korea. It was the only thing I could do to not fall asleep or make an error that would do serious damage to a very expensive piece of equipment.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
was working 18 hour shifts
Yikes.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Phannon wrote:
due to incompitent planning by the project manager
Has the project manager been fired? I would stipulate that.
Phannon wrote:
our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time.
So, you're going to put in an extra 2 hours a day, assuming you'll: 1) actually get the lump sum 2) actually get done on time That's a losing situation. The company should pay you in advance for your extra work. I know it sounds ridiculous, but realistically, you will be putting in all this extra effort and something will happen to make you miss your deadline, or as someone else commented already, the company will find some excuse not to pay you. Remember, the company is making you assume all the risk. Why not have them take on some of the risk, and pay you up front? Why should you and your team take on the risk? My 2c. Which I know won't fly. Marc
Nah I get what your saying. It's been formally written and signed that most of it is guarenteed and the rest is based on an on-time delivery. The lump is a % of annual salary and split to 2 portions from there.
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
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Phannon wrote:
due to incompitent planning by the project manager
Has the project manager been fired? I would stipulate that.
Phannon wrote:
our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time.
So, you're going to put in an extra 2 hours a day, assuming you'll: 1) actually get the lump sum 2) actually get done on time That's a losing situation. The company should pay you in advance for your extra work. I know it sounds ridiculous, but realistically, you will be putting in all this extra effort and something will happen to make you miss your deadline, or as someone else commented already, the company will find some excuse not to pay you. Remember, the company is making you assume all the risk. Why not have them take on some of the risk, and pay you up front? Why should you and your team take on the risk? My 2c. Which I know won't fly. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Has the project manager been fired?
Should be, if not, at least have a negative performance mark in the personnel file.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Phannon wrote:
due to incompitent planning by the project manager
Has the project manager been fired? I would stipulate that.
Phannon wrote:
our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time.
So, you're going to put in an extra 2 hours a day, assuming you'll: 1) actually get the lump sum 2) actually get done on time That's a losing situation. The company should pay you in advance for your extra work. I know it sounds ridiculous, but realistically, you will be putting in all this extra effort and something will happen to make you miss your deadline, or as someone else commented already, the company will find some excuse not to pay you. Remember, the company is making you assume all the risk. Why not have them take on some of the risk, and pay you up front? Why should you and your team take on the risk? My 2c. Which I know won't fly. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Has the project manager been fired? I would stipulate that.
Has that ever happened? I've seen plenty of PMs overcommit but I've never once seen anyone but the dev and support teams take the lumps.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Turn in your resignation? Those kinds of hours usually cause people to get burned out and leave a lot of companies unless its a project you really enjoy working on I remember my first job was extremely amazing and I would work a few extra hours each day and some on the weekend because it was so much fun. The idea that they're asking you to work an extra 2hrs per day and stipulating that the pay is then dependent on finishing the project is a sham. If the project doesn't get finished even when you put in all those extra work hours who's fault is that? You do work you should get paid.
Todd Smith
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Monster Lo-Carb! :omg:
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You need to get used to it in the IT development trade. Projects almost always run late and developers have to stick in the extra hours to make up for time. Where I work (a FTSE 100 company), they take a "risk-based" approach to testing, which means that not all the code gets tested, just those areas deemed to be of high risk (for one reason or another). I wish we, as developers, could take the same approach but I doubt if our business teams would like to see chunks of features de-scoped "because we've run out of time...". No doubt someone will tell us this happens where they work. Just ensure the Coke machine is well-stocked. And ever tried starting earlier in the morning? I regularly sit down at my work's office desk around 07:30 yet leave after 18:00 :-(
DrWheetos wrote:
Just ensure the Coke machine
That's not legal. You shouldn't mention using coke for long stints on a public board. :suss:
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
It's been proven over and over again that people are less alert and make more mistakes when they work too long. There's a reason why we've settled on about 7-8 hours per day and 35-40 hours per week - any longer and you make mistakes. You'll probably end up with many more bugs in the software and ship later if you do overtime.
DoEvents: Generating unexpected recursion since 1991
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
How clearly defined is what needs to be "done" on time, exactly? Don't think I've ever worked on anything where new requirements would keep coming along constantly - you don't want to be working longer and longer days as the customer keeps thinking of more and more things or changing their mind what they want, etc.
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How clearly defined is what needs to be "done" on time, exactly? Don't think I've ever worked on anything where new requirements would keep coming along constantly - you don't want to be working longer and longer days as the customer keeps thinking of more and more things or changing their mind what they want, etc.
Dave Parker wrote:
How clearly defined is what needs to be "done" on time, exactly?
Excellent point. When management starts requiring overtime is when developers stop doing favors. We called it the "j" word. "Since you're going to be working on that module anyway, can't you just add this little, tiny thing?" "No. p*ss off." :mad: But I've never gotten overtime pay, either.
Someone's gotta be the last to know, but why is it always me?
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How clearly defined is what needs to be "done" on time, exactly? Don't think I've ever worked on anything where new requirements would keep coming along constantly - you don't want to be working longer and longer days as the customer keeps thinking of more and more things or changing their mind what they want, etc.
Dave Parker wrote:
Don't think I've ever worked on anything where new requirements would keep coming along
Good God - you haven't, this is my life. Ridiculiously short deadlines, constantly changing requirements, most of my work is prototyping, and the prototypes seem to end up as production apps. However I knew that before I started, the boss knows that I will deliver as fast as possible and will ignore any deadline set. In 4 years (9 deliverables) we have only missed 1 deadline. One app has been rewritten 3 times as new methedology is defined, all of them have undergone major changes post production. Working 10hrs a day should be sustainable almost indefinately. Pleanty of excercise and as much sleep as is reasonable. Make sure you get to keep you weekends though.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Get used to it - this is common in your industry and mine (engineering). As the old adage reminds us, there's never enough time or budget to do a job right, but there's planty to do it over again. There are three classes of employee:
- Hourly - you get paid overtime
- Salaried Non-Exempt - you get a base salary, but still get overtime pay if needed.
- Salaried Exempt - you're fucked. You get your usual base rate and no compensation for the extra hours you put in.
Make sure that you always work as one of the first two classes, because management ineptitude is not going to go away in my lifetime or yours.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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You need to get used to it in the IT development trade. Projects almost always run late and developers have to stick in the extra hours to make up for time. Where I work (a FTSE 100 company), they take a "risk-based" approach to testing, which means that not all the code gets tested, just those areas deemed to be of high risk (for one reason or another). I wish we, as developers, could take the same approach but I doubt if our business teams would like to see chunks of features de-scoped "because we've run out of time...". No doubt someone will tell us this happens where they work. Just ensure the Coke machine is well-stocked. And ever tried starting earlier in the morning? I regularly sit down at my work's office desk around 07:30 yet leave after 18:00 :-(
DrWheetos wrote:
I regularly sit down at my work's office desk around 07:30 yet leave after 18:00
Me too, but I actually like it this way. I divide my days in 4 parts instead of 2 (lunch) this way. I feel it works great, I become inhabitated (?) at work and it feels a bit like home :p Although my wife isn't always happy with this. But starting early is definatly a good way to survive overtime