Surviving overtime
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Long term overtime is tough, especially if you're not used to it. Being the materialistic type of guy that I am ;P I get through it by deciding what I'm going to spend the money on when I've done the work. That way, when I feel like falling asleep at my desk after yet another long day I look forward to doing whatever it is I'm going to do with the extra money, which I wouldn't have been doing if it weren't for the overtime. In my opinion, you should enjoy yourself with overtime cash. You deserve it!
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Oh yeah. I picked up the habit when I was working 18 hour shifts at Samsung in S. Korea. It was the only thing I could do to not fall asleep or make an error that would do serious damage to a very expensive piece of equipment.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
WoW that's a shift... Couple of months ago I received a project that was really messed up and of course the deadline was two months back. It took me another two tough months to fix all the wrong stuff. I stayed at work for 11 to 14 hours every single day. In the end of this hell months I was so exhausted that I hadn't will for do anything except walking in the park near my residential district. So... keep walking... ;)
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Hi there, Working overtime totally depends on how you feel with it. Don't do it if you don't get energy from it. Not getting energy means that you'll never be fully committed to the project and you won't work the 110%. In the end you'll just burn extra hours. If you do get energy from your job, ask yourself whats more important to you: * Family * Hobbies * Money / Job * Etcetera Spending more time on the job means spending less time on the other things you like. For example, if you are a real family man, you won't feel happy about spending less time with your family and more time on the job. Also consider the risk of not getting the lump sum. You probably don't manage the scope and extra requirements mean extra overtime. What happens when an other developer gets sick? Even more overtime? When you decide to make the extra overtime, make sure you get the enough sleep. If you don't get it, you won't be able to work the full 110%, wich will be required to make the deadline. One last thing comes to my mind: since the project manager isn't any good when it comes to planning, why do you think this estimate is any good? Kind regards, Bob Stanneveld
Behind every great black man... ... is the police. - Conspiracy brother
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Has the project manager been fired? I would stipulate that.
Has that ever happened? I've seen plenty of PMs overcommit but I've never once seen anyone but the dev and support teams take the lumps.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
I've been in this situation, The company had expectations of delivering a full blown product that probably would have taken several months in a few weeks! but they did however pay up the bonuses + more. However, eventually I worked myself into the ground and I ended up leaving the job burnt out, after regularly working late into the night and full day weekends. This was despite the fact it was quite an interesting role. It can also ruin relationships with people outside of work, so be wary of that. in another job, I've had managers put the pressure on to put extra work in, with no guarantee of any reward. Needless to day i got wise to that. Also the expectation of doing 2 hours a day extra may still be unrealistic...especially as it gets closer to the delivery deadline. expect more pressure to be applied! But it works both ways... In my experience, either the job is exciting but the expectations for delivery are way too unrealistic with a risk-reward scenario, or you get a job where the environment isn't so demanding, but the work is as dull as dishwater! I've not come across an working environment thats got the balance right yet. its down to the person really to decide what suits, but that comes with experience. Hope this helps...
William Falconer, Developer
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Yep. We used to get paid in terms of pizzas and it was cool at first, but after a few friday's with over 4 hours of overtime (on salary with no time and a half), the idea got old fast.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon
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Hi there, Working overtime totally depends on how you feel with it. Don't do it if you don't get energy from it. Not getting energy means that you'll never be fully committed to the project and you won't work the 110%. In the end you'll just burn extra hours. If you do get energy from your job, ask yourself whats more important to you: * Family * Hobbies * Money / Job * Etcetera Spending more time on the job means spending less time on the other things you like. For example, if you are a real family man, you won't feel happy about spending less time with your family and more time on the job. Also consider the risk of not getting the lump sum. You probably don't manage the scope and extra requirements mean extra overtime. What happens when an other developer gets sick? Even more overtime? When you decide to make the extra overtime, make sure you get the enough sleep. If you don't get it, you won't be able to work the full 110%, wich will be required to make the deadline. One last thing comes to my mind: since the project manager isn't any good when it comes to planning, why do you think this estimate is any good? Kind regards, Bob Stanneveld
Behind every great black man... ... is the police. - Conspiracy brother
The original estimates were so poor because they allowed no time for holidays amongst other things, but this is not as much of an estimate, as this is the deadline, that still hasn't moved. So now it's on us to get it done doing however much overtime we feel is necessary.
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Check the small print. When I had to work 7 days a week with overtime Mon - Friday for 7 weeks, and getting silly at the end (maybe 3 hours sleep), I discovered that I wasn't getting paid for some of it as according to the rules, I was taking unpaid breaks every so often to comply with some legislation or other. Still, it worked out in the end. The boss was pleased and increased my grade which came with no paid overtime but a £500 a year raise. I turned it down, showing him my overtime earnings. That got me about a £6,000 raise and, the best bit, because the first serious overtime had fixed some issues, I didn't need to do anywhere near as much after that. :-D Rich
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Phannon wrote:
and keeping up with sleep
I would vote for this. And having some regular breaks or excercises, as other pointed out. Sleep is needed more, if the work isn't about an endless testing, that is, if you really need to think about what you are doing ;)
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Phannon wrote:
due to incompitent planning by the project manager
Has the project manager been fired? I would stipulate that.
Phannon wrote:
our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time.
So, you're going to put in an extra 2 hours a day, assuming you'll: 1) actually get the lump sum 2) actually get done on time That's a losing situation. The company should pay you in advance for your extra work. I know it sounds ridiculous, but realistically, you will be putting in all this extra effort and something will happen to make you miss your deadline, or as someone else commented already, the company will find some excuse not to pay you. Remember, the company is making you assume all the risk. Why not have them take on some of the risk, and pay you up front? Why should you and your team take on the risk? My 2c. Which I know won't fly. Marc
Get real! Project Managers do not get fired for overruns because they tend to: a) Explain the reason why the developers are at fault to senior management b) Explain to the developers that the project has been sent off course by new requirements by senior management (ie there is no point complaining) c) All PMs are coated in teflon as the 'realskin' (tm) is applied to their true android insides
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
2 hours a day at a project hump sounds perfectly reasonable, and I'm surprised that you've been offered money! It is a long tradition in IT that projects overrun, requirements change during development and that developers will be expected to to 'ride the hump'. Expect documentation and testing to be skipped as well. I was taught these truisms in my Computer Science (how quaint does that sound!) A-Level in the mid-1980s. Get used to it - this won't be the last time!
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
Switch from black coffee to green tea - you will chill considerably as a result and the time will fly by!
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Dave Parker wrote:
Don't think I've ever worked on anything where new requirements would keep coming along
Good God - you haven't, this is my life. Ridiculiously short deadlines, constantly changing requirements, most of my work is prototyping, and the prototypes seem to end up as production apps. However I knew that before I started, the boss knows that I will deliver as fast as possible and will ignore any deadline set. In 4 years (9 deliverables) we have only missed 1 deadline. One app has been rewritten 3 times as new methedology is defined, all of them have undergone major changes post production. Working 10hrs a day should be sustainable almost indefinately. Pleanty of excercise and as much sleep as is reasonable. Make sure you get to keep you weekends though.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Dave Parker wrote: Don't think I've ever worked on anything where new requirements would keep coming along Good God - you haven't, this is my life. Ridiculiously short deadlines, constantly changing requirements, most of my work is prototyping, and the prototypes seem to end up as production apps.
Whoops - that should have read "Don't think I've ever worked on anything where new requirements WOULDN'T keep coming along" lol!
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
I've been putting in 12 hour days, 6 days a week for years. A 50 hour work week sounds almost like vacation to me! Welcome to reality. It's different than school!
The PetroNerd
Walt Fair, Jr. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
1. Very important: Leave your cube periodically! For a) 15 minute breaks b) lunch/dinner c) a short walk outside 2. Drink Mountain Dew (high caffeine), Red Bull, and coffee 3. If your company has a gym in the building, use it! If not, do some pushups, get some dumb bells, and get a jump rope and find an empty cube. 4. Last resort - crystal meth! Kidding... :wtf: 5. Listen to your favorite music while coding. For your morale...if you have a video iPod, put shows on it that make you laugh...find something on YouTube that has your type of humor. Sign up to get a daily Dilbert cartoon, read David Letterman's Top Ten lists. Watch a Three Stooges video...whatever works for you. 6. This site cracks me up: www.someecards.com It allows you to send out ecards for free. Warning: Some are profane/raunchy but almost all are hilarious. Is your company going to compensate you in some way for all this? Like time off, pay, etc? We don't work 7 days a week here...but 10 hour days are common.
What does an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac do? He lies awake at night wondering if there's a dog.
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Just to add to your gloom, be prepared to not receive the lump sum. They'll think of some reason.
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Just to add to your gloom, be prepared to not receive the lump sum. They'll think of some reason.
That reminds me of this CEO we had for awhile here. They wanted to put the developers into "crunch mode" to meet another one of those arbitrary deadlines. So this guy calls a meeting and offers the following deal: Work your normal 40 hours, then 10 OT hours (for free) and then starting at hour 50 we'll start paying you half-rate per-hour. :wtf: Wait a second ... that's like I make cookies. You want the first 40 of 'em for my price but you require I give you 10 free ones after the first 40 and then you'll pay only half for my cookies after that. You think I'm stupid? NO DEAL. I could go get a 2nd job at Wal Mart and do better than that! The crazy thing about that was - most of the developers thought that was a good deal! :omg: Professional do give more than they're paid because they WANT to ... but that can go too far to the point of being stupid. Oh well, so much for developers being smart! -CB
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In short... a massive project has fallen behind for our team (due to incompitent planning by the project manager, the development itself has not been slow), so our dev team has been bribed with a lump sum to get it done on time. The hours aren't fixed, so long as it gets done, doesn't matter when we come in, but it seems like for the next 2 months we're going to be sticking in roughly an extra 2 hours a day each every day. I don't think our regular coffee is going to cut this. This is my first job since uni and I've never done these kinds of hours over long term before, I'm sure by the end of it I'm going to feel pretty drained, so what advice do people have? Be it drinks, activities (or lack thereof) and keeping up with sleep, what can you suggest? :)
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
The sad truth is that most projects that end-up in this kind of panic mode ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL. I don't mean to burst your bubble, but the research shows this clearly. Whenever management starts throwing crazy incentives and "compensations" at you (meals, bonuses, promised extra time-off, etc.) to meet a goal that you know is unachievable, the writing it on the wall. But, since this is your first job out of school, I think you need to embrace the challenge and learn from it. Make some notes (yes, write them down) about what you think went wrong "before" the chaos set in. As you ascend the career ladder, refer to these notes and don't make the same mistakes. I suspect they will be some combination of: poorly defined or changing requirements, under-staffing or budget at the onset, changing leadership, or maybe (and this one is hard to swallow) that someone in upper-management doesn't really care for this project but figures it's easier to have a month blow-out and let it fail rather than cancel it. Also, I concur with some other responders. You HAVE to take care of yourself. Someone suggested two brisk walks per day. Excellent. Don't eat lunch (or dinner or breakfast!) at your desk. Eat outside or at a restaurant or at least with friends. Get lots of sleep. Truthfully, most of the time you really only have few productive hours in a day, so working 18 hours doesn't buy much more than working 8. I interviewed with a group who said that when they are in the throws of "crunch time" and the schedule is tightening and the stress level is high and everyone is working hard, the head of the company makes everyone leave and they shut the office for a day! Most managers would say "work on weekends". This guy says "take Friday off!" Good advice. It buys a lot of loyalty, too.