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  3. And the quantum world keeps on getting stranger and stranger

And the quantum world keeps on getting stranger and stranger

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  • H hairy_hats

    I think it is the case though that however fast the entanglement "transmits" that it cannot be used to transmit information FTL. Re Dark Energy there was an article in New Scientist not so long ago that suggested that the clumpy distribution of matter in the universe could be affecting photons as they pass through it in such a way as to produce an effect which looks like "Dark Energy" to our models, which utilise a uniform matter distribution, and that Dark Energy may therefore not be required to model the universe. I suspect that Dark matter will also turn out to be no more than a limitation in our models and not some exotic form of matter. Personally I also think that Superstrings are a total con and a distraction from the true search for a GUT. Give any system enough degrees of freedom and you can make it look like anything.

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    Brady Kelly
    wrote on last edited by
    #23

    Steve_Harris wrote:

    Personally I also think that Superstrings are a total con and a distraction from the true search for a GUT. Give any system enough degrees of freedom and you can make it look like anything

    You go Stan! ;P

    Elusive problem with IIS7 static content.

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    • A Andy Brummer

      Chris Austin wrote:

      This is why I always dread trying to explain aspects of quantum theory to "some" people.

      Yeah, I've definitely given up trying to explain any of it to anyone that doesn't have a really open mind and is willing to do a lot of reading. I really believe that QM just isn't compatible with the way humans think, so the only tools we have for understanding it are mathematical. On top of that it takes the math and requires you to use it wrong. Nobody on this planet would ever conceive of mapping complex linear algebra onto a form of mechanics like that in a million years. [edit]wrong is probably not the correct word there. Unnaturally is probably better.[/edit]

      I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon

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      Brady Kelly
      wrote on last edited by
      #24

      Andy Brummer wrote:

      QM just isn't compatible with the way humans think, so the only tools we have for understanding it are mathematical.

      Just like anything above three dimensions.

      Elusive problem with IIS7 static content.

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      • P Pete OHanlon

        This[^], in the New Scientist is pretty damn amazing. I like their idea that measuring one photon influences another.

        Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

        My blog | My articles

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        Brady Kelly
        wrote on last edited by
        #25

        Thanks Pete, new sig material.

        A SINGLE-PHOTON TURNSTILE, a device in which photons are emitted one at a time under controlled circumstances, has been created by a team of scientists from Stanford (US), Hamamatsu Photonics (Japan), and NTT (Japan). Essentially the researchers use the quantization of electrical conductance to produce a quantization of photon emission. They put together a quantum well (the frontier between two thin semiconductor layers) containing a single electron (other electrons are dissuaded from entering because of a "Coulomb blockade" effect) with a quantum well containing a lone (comparably Coulomb blockaded) hole, and then cycle the voltage across the whole stack of layers in such a way that the lone electron and lone hole meet, mate, and make a lone photon. The resulting device, which operates at mK temperatures, is typically a tiny post some 700 nm tall and with a diameter of 200-1000 nm. (J. Kim et al., Nature, 11 February 1999.)

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        • B Brady Kelly

          Andy Brummer wrote:

          QM just isn't compatible with the way humans think, so the only tools we have for understanding it are mathematical.

          Just like anything above three dimensions.

          Elusive problem with IIS7 static content.

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          Andy Brummer
          wrote on last edited by
          #26

          Only when we try to think of it on the same terms as 3 spacial dimensions. We deal with plenty of higher dimensional spaces fairly regularly without realizing it, and the mathematics is the same. Quantum mechanics goes something along the lines of, take an absurdly high dimensional space and then do some weird kind of rotation operation on it and see how the lengths of everything changed. We'll call that a position measurement. Do the same thing with a related rotation and that's a measurement in a different direction. Do a really strangely weird rotation and we'll call that a momentum measurement. Take those operations and stick them together like it makes sense to do so and bam, you have energy. Make them into a differential equation and now you have motion. It all manages to be consistent, and make the most accurate predictions of any theory we've come up with, but absolutely nobody has any idea why any of it would be in the first place.

          I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon

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          • M Marc Clifton

            Quantum entanglement is fascinating, along with things like dark matter and dark energy. Quantum physics in general is quite interesting coupled with my interest in neurology, AI, and even more esoteric things like chance, fate, predestination, and so forth. Marc

            Thyme In The Country Interacx My Blog

            R Offline
            R Offline
            Roger Wright
            wrote on last edited by
            #27

            Marc Clifton wrote:

            predestination

            I knew you were going to say that.

            "A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"

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            • M Marc Clifton

              Quantum entanglement is fascinating, along with things like dark matter and dark energy. Quantum physics in general is quite interesting coupled with my interest in neurology, AI, and even more esoteric things like chance, fate, predestination, and so forth. Marc

              Thyme In The Country Interacx My Blog

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              B Offline
              blackjack2150
              wrote on last edited by
              #28

              Marc Clifton wrote:

              Quantum physics in general is quite interesting coupled with my interest in neurology, AI, and even more esoteric things like chance, fate, predestination, and so forth.

              That enum reminded me of the movie "What the 'bleep' do we know?!" Have you seen it?

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              • M Marc Clifton

                Quantum entanglement is fascinating, along with things like dark matter and dark energy. Quantum physics in general is quite interesting coupled with my interest in neurology, AI, and even more esoteric things like chance, fate, predestination, and so forth. Marc

                Thyme In The Country Interacx My Blog

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                macu
                wrote on last edited by
                #29

                I like chocolate.

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                • B Brady Kelly

                  Thanks Pete, new sig material.

                  A SINGLE-PHOTON TURNSTILE, a device in which photons are emitted one at a time under controlled circumstances, has been created by a team of scientists from Stanford (US), Hamamatsu Photonics (Japan), and NTT (Japan). Essentially the researchers use the quantization of electrical conductance to produce a quantization of photon emission. They put together a quantum well (the frontier between two thin semiconductor layers) containing a single electron (other electrons are dissuaded from entering because of a "Coulomb blockade" effect) with a quantum well containing a lone (comparably Coulomb blockaded) hole, and then cycle the voltage across the whole stack of layers in such a way that the lone electron and lone hole meet, mate, and make a lone photon. The resulting device, which operates at mK temperatures, is typically a tiny post some 700 nm tall and with a diameter of 200-1000 nm. (J. Kim et al., Nature, 11 February 1999.)

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                  Pete OHanlon
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #30

                  That's one cool sig.

                  Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

                  My blog | My articles

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                  • P Pete OHanlon

                    That's one cool sig.

                    Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

                    My blog | My articles

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                    B Offline
                    Brady Kelly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #31

                    I wanted to edit it and higlight the bits about the lone electron and hole mating and producing a tiny post, but I can't click on it without following the link. But I couldn't.

                    A SINGLE-PHOTON TURNSTILE, a device in which photons are emitted one at a time under controlled circumstances, has been created by a team of scientists from Stanford (US), Hamamatsu Photonics (Japan), and NTT (Japan). Essentially the researchers use the quantization of electrical conductance to produce a quantization of photon emission. They put together a quantum well (the frontier between two thin semiconductor layers) containing a single electron (other electrons are dissuaded from entering because of a "Coulomb blockade" effect) with a quantum well containing a lone (comparably Coulomb blockaded) hole, and then cycle the voltage across the whole stack of layers in such a way that the lone electron and lone hole meet, mate, and make a lone photon. The resulting device, which operates at mK temperatures, is typically a tiny post some 700 nm tall and with a diameter of 200-1000 nm. (J. Kim et al., Nature, 11 February 1999.)

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • C Chris Austin

                      Steve_Harris wrote:

                      Re Dark Energy there was an article in New Scientist not so long ago that suggested that the clumpy distribution of matter in the universe could be affecting photons as they pass through it in such a way as to produce an effect which looks like "Dark Energy" to our models, which utilise a uniform matter distribution, and that Dark Energy may therefore not be required to model the universe. I suspect that Dark matter will also turn out to be no more than a limitation in our models and not some exotic form of matter.

                      If I remember correctly the "Cosmic Illusion" argument against Dark Energy doesn't really stand up when considering the density differences on volumes large enough (millions of light years I think) to effect universal expansion; I think someone did a survey using gravitational lensing to measure the density. Also, isn't the density difference model pretty immature/ over simplified at this point? Still it is all very fascinating to me.

                      Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

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                      hairy_hats
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #32

                      Chris Austin wrote:

                      density

                      I thought that the "uniform over a large enough volume" approach was what they had found didn't work?

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                      • C Chris Austin

                        I initially went into Bio-Engineering even though I loved my Physics classes more than anything in high school. I realized in my first year that I preferred Physics and switched majors by my third semester.

                        Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

                        It's only been in the last 10 years that I really started to get into quantum theory.

                        :) I've made the same switch to Dark Energy and Dark Matter... absolutely fascinating.

                        Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

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                        Jose Derek
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #33

                        The Bible says: "AS ABOVE AND SO BELOW." Anything is energy first before it manifested in the material plane.

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                        • P Pete OHanlon

                          This[^], in the New Scientist is pretty damn amazing. I like their idea that measuring one photon influences another.

                          Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

                          My blog | My articles

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                          Gary Wheeler
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #34

                          Charming :rim-shot:.

                          Software Zen: delete this;

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                          • P Pete OHanlon

                            This[^], in the New Scientist is pretty damn amazing. I like their idea that measuring one photon influences another.

                            Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

                            My blog | My articles

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                            L Offline
                            Lost User
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #35

                            Entanglement is used in odd places in optical equipment even before people knew it was there.

                            Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.

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                            • B Brady Kelly

                              Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

                              science geeks

                              What other kind are there? :((

                              Elusive problem with IIS7 static content.

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                              Dan Neely
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #36

                              Brady Kelly wrote:

                              Pete O'Hanlon wrote: science geeks What other kind are there? [Cry]

                              science dorks, gun geeks, etc, etc, etc.

                              Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall

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                              • P Pete OHanlon

                                Interesting. When I was at college, I moved towards mathematics even though I was more interested in physics. It's my eternal regret that I didn't pursue my initial aims which was to study to become an astrophysicist. It's only been in the last 10 years that I really started to get into quantum theory.

                                Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

                                My blog | My articles

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                                U Offline
                                User 3830644
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #37

                                Personally I like silly string.:cool:

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • P Pete OHanlon

                                  This[^], in the New Scientist is pretty damn amazing. I like their idea that measuring one photon influences another.

                                  Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

                                  My blog | My articles

                                  U Offline
                                  U Offline
                                  User 3830644
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #38

                                  Personally I like silly string (or the theory of it).

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • R Roger Wright

                                    Marc Clifton wrote:

                                    predestination

                                    I knew you were going to say that.

                                    "A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"

                                    E Offline
                                    E Offline
                                    Edgar Prieto
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #39

                                    Roger Wright wrote:

                                    Marc Clifton wrote: predestination I knew you were going to say that.

                                    I thought he will said Procastination

                                    Edgar Prieto Software Engineer

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                                    • P Pete OHanlon

                                      This[^], in the New Scientist is pretty damn amazing. I like their idea that measuring one photon influences another.

                                      Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

                                      My blog | My articles

                                      M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Mel Pama
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #40

                                      Just today I read an article in the CodeProject that states that they are progressing with the "Warp Drive". Mathematically speaking they will bend space by expanding it behind the space craft and contracting it in front of the space craft causing a space wave, like surfing. This will get the ship to the opposite end of the universe very quickly, at multiple times the speed of like: but the actual speed of the space craft will be stationary, thus not violating Einstein's theory of relativity. This is a result of further exploration of the string theory which a few prominent scientists have been working on. It is all mathematically feasible, however the energy required amounts to the energy of the planet of Pluto when totally changed into energy, ~10^45 Joules, which they say we wont be able to do for another few melenium. That's the part I hate because I won't be around to see it and go with them. Also, on a much smaller scale such as what you have been talking about, they have actually teleported a photon across town in Austria. The theory of entanglement is involved with this process. Once two photons have existed simultaneaously for a femtosecond they are forever associated and the one knows what the other "feels" or "does". This is somehow related with what you have been talking about. A good book on the subject is "Teleportation The Impossible Leap" by David Darling (Wiley Books). The CodeProjecy is obtainable at www.codeproject.com Mel :)

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                                      • P Pete OHanlon

                                        Indeed, but it's cool that they've actually been conducting experiments on this.

                                        Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

                                        My blog | My articles

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                                        K Offline
                                        Kevin McFarlane
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #41

                                        The experiments have been conducted for years as well. I think they just do more impressive experiments as time passes, rather as they do for relativity.

                                        Kevin

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                                        • M Marc Clifton

                                          Quantum entanglement is fascinating, along with things like dark matter and dark energy. Quantum physics in general is quite interesting coupled with my interest in neurology, AI, and even more esoteric things like chance, fate, predestination, and so forth. Marc

                                          Thyme In The Country Interacx My Blog

                                          K Offline
                                          K Offline
                                          Kevin McFarlane
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #42

                                          Marc Clifton wrote:

                                          Quantum entanglement is fascinating

                                          As Richard Feynman said: "no-one understands quantum mechanics." (This was in response to the myth that no-one understands relativity.)

                                          Kevin

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