Chinese seem to be more form then substance
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In a nutshell the reason seems to be "China, you need to be a lot nicer to people, I mean really. Tell you what, if you promise, I mean really promise not to try to kill a bunch of people and take over Taiwan and destroy 1000 years of Tibetan culture, we'll let you hold the Olympics at your house this year. Do you think you can do that for us? Do you think you can play nice with the rest of us? Yes? That's a good little China!"
Imagine that you are hired to build a bridge over a river which gets slightly wider every day; sometimes it shrinks but nobody can predict when. Your client provides no concrete or steel, only timber and cut stone (but they won't tell you what kind). The coefficient of gravity changes randomly from hour to hour, as does the viscosity of air. Your only tools are a hacksaw, a chainsaw, a rubber mallet, and a length of rope. Welcome to my world. -Me explaining my job to an engineer
China (having been given the Olympics): <Nelson_Muntz> Ha ha! </Nelson_Muntz>
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Well...Thats a good one. But the countries of the world only do things if it is there interest. Have you noticed how quickly Britain moved to help the people of Burma...Even though we promised to be there for them after the 2nd world war after the help they gave us against the Japanese. Look how quickly the US moved to help Georgia...Even though they are a background pressure that causes the conflict. Know this...We live an unfair world where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Things only ever change though revolution. China doesn't just have military power...it has economic power. Look how many western companies run out of China utilising their cheap workforce...which is kept cheap though a repressive goverment.
Oh, I know all that. It's just a shame that it has to be that way.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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I guess the real question is, if there are these problems ( and I am not saying otherwise ), why were they given the olympics, unless it was to exert some sort of pressure ? And if that was it, where is that pressure ?
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
I don't think there is a country on the planet that one can't point at a myriad of issues--human rights, environment, etc. And I think it's impossible to rank these issues. They should have the olympics on Antarctica or an unhabited island, except it would destroy the ecosystem. Heck, they should ditch the olympics and air several hours of non-stop commercials. Marc
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So were not even half way through the Olympics yet and we have realized that the little girl singing wasn't real, the firework footsteps were not real, the air in Beijing isn't real and the passports of the girls gymnastics team are not real. Seems the Chinese have forgotten for it to count it has to be real. What is real is that if you take pictures of school rubble from the earthquake and put it on the internet you will end up in a labor camp. The lack of freedom of speech and true freedom of religion in this country is very real. The oppression of people in China and Tibet and the Authoritarian government is also very real. Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year.
They are just desperate to impress the world. You have to understand the Chinese mentality. China is just coming out of a century long slump of wars and occupation, and they are eager to demonstrate that they have left that behind. Some of the things you pointed out aren't even significant. They put on a hell of a show, and that's what it was, a show. "What is real is that if you take pictures of school rubble from the earthquake and put it on the internet you will end up in a labor camp." Where have you heard this? The Chinese government has been unusually open this time about the earthquake and I have seen numerous scenes of the destruction even on official channels. It's a vast improvement over the TangShan quake which killed hundreds of thousands and there wasn't a peep about it. I can't argue against the lack of freedom, but I will say that to most people, it is of little concern. "Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year." Chinese parents would sacrifice everything in order for their children to excel. I'm not saying it's right, but it's their choice. I don't deny there are a lot of problems in China. Corruption, growing gap between rich and poor, senseless censorship, lack of ethics etc etc. but the upper echelon of the government wants to help and things are slowly changing, not all thanks to them. It's really quite interesting to see what's going on in China.
modified on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:46 PM
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Well...Thats a good one. But the countries of the world only do things if it is there interest. Have you noticed how quickly Britain moved to help the people of Burma...Even though we promised to be there for them after the 2nd world war after the help they gave us against the Japanese. Look how quickly the US moved to help Georgia...Even though they are a background pressure that causes the conflict. Know this...We live an unfair world where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Things only ever change though revolution. China doesn't just have military power...it has economic power. Look how many western companies run out of China utilising their cheap workforce...which is kept cheap though a repressive goverment.
more form then substance
PaulC wrote:
But the countries of the world only do things if it is there interest.
What is this? A bad English competition? ;P
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everytime a weather related problem occurs, the country is brought to its knees. be it snow or earthquakes china makes FEMA look good. the people will sell their own neighbors cardboard based food to make a profit. china is a craphole.
----------------------------------------------------------- "When I first saw it, I just thought that you really, really enjoyed programming in java." - Leslie Sanford
modified on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 6:22 PM
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They are just desperate to impress the world. You have to understand the Chinese mentality. China is just coming out of a century long slump of wars and occupation, and they are eager to demonstrate that they have left that behind. Some of the things you pointed out aren't even significant. They put on a hell of a show, and that's what it was, a show. "What is real is that if you take pictures of school rubble from the earthquake and put it on the internet you will end up in a labor camp." Where have you heard this? The Chinese government has been unusually open this time about the earthquake and I have seen numerous scenes of the destruction even on official channels. It's a vast improvement over the TangShan quake which killed hundreds of thousands and there wasn't a peep about it. I can't argue against the lack of freedom, but I will say that to most people, it is of little concern. "Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year." Chinese parents would sacrifice everything in order for their children to excel. I'm not saying it's right, but it's their choice. I don't deny there are a lot of problems in China. Corruption, growing gap between rich and poor, senseless censorship, lack of ethics etc etc. but the upper echelon of the government wants to help and things are slowly changing, not all thanks to them. It's really quite interesting to see what's going on in China.
modified on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:46 PM
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I guess the real question is, if there are these problems ( and I am not saying otherwise ), why were they given the olympics, unless it was to exert some sort of pressure ? And if that was it, where is that pressure ?
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Christian Graus wrote:
why were they given the olympics
They're running out of choices. I guess they could start having the Extreme Olympics. Maybe like Russia, Pakistan, Iraq.
Beauty is only a light switch away.
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So were not even half way through the Olympics yet and we have realized that the little girl singing wasn't real, the firework footsteps were not real, the air in Beijing isn't real and the passports of the girls gymnastics team are not real. Seems the Chinese have forgotten for it to count it has to be real. What is real is that if you take pictures of school rubble from the earthquake and put it on the internet you will end up in a labor camp. The lack of freedom of speech and true freedom of religion in this country is very real. The oppression of people in China and Tibet and the Authoritarian government is also very real. Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year.
Well,This is BBC style!! All of you made me sick! You even don't know the truth,how can you make a story for fun??? BTW,I am a chinese University student! I love my country! Everything here isn't what your talk about. I see the real of my country everyday! Stronger!!
Undeniable:More information,more abilities,more energies,more time! http://www.blogjava.net/tidelgl
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Well,This is BBC style!! All of you made me sick! You even don't know the truth,how can you make a story for fun??? BTW,I am a chinese University student! I love my country! Everything here isn't what your talk about. I see the real of my country everyday! Stronger!!
Undeniable:More information,more abilities,more energies,more time! http://www.blogjava.net/tidelgl
Well, you don't have to cop a 'tude, just tell us about it.
Beauty is only a light switch away.
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more form then substance
PaulC wrote:
But the countries of the world only do things if it is there interest.
What is this? A bad English competition? ;P
They didn't teach grammar in my computer science classes
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They are just desperate to impress the world. You have to understand the Chinese mentality. China is just coming out of a century long slump of wars and occupation, and they are eager to demonstrate that they have left that behind. Some of the things you pointed out aren't even significant. They put on a hell of a show, and that's what it was, a show. "What is real is that if you take pictures of school rubble from the earthquake and put it on the internet you will end up in a labor camp." Where have you heard this? The Chinese government has been unusually open this time about the earthquake and I have seen numerous scenes of the destruction even on official channels. It's a vast improvement over the TangShan quake which killed hundreds of thousands and there wasn't a peep about it. I can't argue against the lack of freedom, but I will say that to most people, it is of little concern. "Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year." Chinese parents would sacrifice everything in order for their children to excel. I'm not saying it's right, but it's their choice. I don't deny there are a lot of problems in China. Corruption, growing gap between rich and poor, senseless censorship, lack of ethics etc etc. but the upper echelon of the government wants to help and things are slowly changing, not all thanks to them. It's really quite interesting to see what's going on in China.
modified on Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:46 PM
dighn wrote:
Where have you heard this?
It was on the NBC coverage last night.
dighn wrote:
I'm not saying it's right, but it's their choice.
Should be a choice they have to make though. I'll admit I'm a China newb so my comments should be taken as such. But the point was that people shouldn't think all is well and good in China. Don't be blinded by the glitz of the Olympics and miss the reality that 1/5th of the worlds population lives with every day. At least the olymopics has gotten people like me to be more aware of the issues.
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Well,This is BBC style!! All of you made me sick! You even don't know the truth,how can you make a story for fun??? BTW,I am a chinese University student! I love my country! Everything here isn't what your talk about. I see the real of my country everyday! Stronger!!
Undeniable:More information,more abilities,more energies,more time! http://www.blogjava.net/tidelgl
Everything I said were documented facts. I wasn't making anything up. But rightfully so that you should love your country. Is there a place on the planet which has more history or culture then China? Where would the west be without China? Half of everything I own is probably made over there. Many of the great advances in science and culture have come from China. Honestly I think the government is afraid of too much change all at once. I think if they got our of the way the Chinese people would rise to new heights. But if you were in China and you created a anti-government site, how long would it be running and how long before you went to jail? In the US, everyone has the right to speak their mind about the government without fearing for themselves or their family. In London, their is even a corner by a park where people do so out loud. Think that would go over well in Beijing. We all saw how well the Tibet protesters were treated. Please though take my comments as pointed to the Government, not the people. If I got something wrong, now is your change to educate me. Don't be defensive, speak the truth and we can all learn from that.
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So were not even half way through the Olympics yet and we have realized that the little girl singing wasn't real, the firework footsteps were not real, the air in Beijing isn't real and the passports of the girls gymnastics team are not real. Seems the Chinese have forgotten for it to count it has to be real. What is real is that if you take pictures of school rubble from the earthquake and put it on the internet you will end up in a labor camp. The lack of freedom of speech and true freedom of religion in this country is very real. The oppression of people in China and Tibet and the Authoritarian government is also very real. Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year.
China is a Potemkin village, anywhere tourists might wander. It's still a pseudo-communist regime run by a despot and his henchmen, and nothing will change that until the world brings pressure to bear financially. A few years ago we had a regular member from China. At first his English was comical and annoying, but as he improved his language skills (like I have room to talk - I can't speak a word of Chinese) he began to ask questions about the outside world. I found him quite interesting, though tragic in his ignorance. I recall posting pictures or describing a public event once, and he and I talked about it at length. He couldn't quite believe that it is possible to hold a large event without having a policeman armed with a machine gun every 50 feet or so. He couldn't grasp the idea that a riot would not spontaneously erupt without a heavy armed force in attendance. It just wasn't natural. There were so many things he wanted to know about the real world, and many of us tried to answer his questions. Over time I think he began to believe me and the others that spent the time talking with him, but we'll never know. He disappeared from CodeProject one day a couple of years ago. I can't even find him in the Who's Who anymore, since the search function doesn't work. I think his name is Zhougen, and I wish him well. I miss his innocence, and his desire to know what life in the real world is really like, what life could be anywhere but where he lives.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Everything I said were documented facts. I wasn't making anything up. But rightfully so that you should love your country. Is there a place on the planet which has more history or culture then China? Where would the west be without China? Half of everything I own is probably made over there. Many of the great advances in science and culture have come from China. Honestly I think the government is afraid of too much change all at once. I think if they got our of the way the Chinese people would rise to new heights. But if you were in China and you created a anti-government site, how long would it be running and how long before you went to jail? In the US, everyone has the right to speak their mind about the government without fearing for themselves or their family. In London, their is even a corner by a park where people do so out loud. Think that would go over well in Beijing. We all saw how well the Tibet protesters were treated. Please though take my comments as pointed to the Government, not the people. If I got something wrong, now is your change to educate me. Don't be defensive, speak the truth and we can all learn from that.
Well,I'm so sorry about my English,I learn English just for programing.My english too limit to express my mind and feelings.It's a problem. I'm tired to hear the BBC style.Because,when I am 10 years old,I heared a story talked about my town,said some people been treated terrible by our Government,sounded crazy!But nothing happend here,and people live in peace.Now,I know what BBC talk about all for against my country's society. BTW,my roommate's friend is at Tibet now,he give the real news about people there,they hate Tibet protesters!Tibet protesters try to broke the peace! Do you know how we treated Carrefour??We rush to destroy they shops,nobody bought they things when we knew they helped Tibet protesters!Our Government forbid us to do so.Because that's also a way to broke the peace!Students of my school angry about what they did!Teachers beg us not do something bad. There are 1.4billion peoble in china.A small Government can makes 1.4billion peoble live in peace is not easy,not easy!!!!!China never be stronger without this small Government,never be,even God can't say yes!!!! Well,I am not going to quarrel.I do not like talk about political.I like programing.And I am so happy that I can programing in peace.There are many people live in poor.I have try to be stronger(and rich) to help them too,likes Bill(someday). The Olypic Games need peace!The world need peace.Whereever,whenever! Well,everyone Enjoy Olypic Games.
Undeniable:More information,more abilities,more energies,more time! http://www.blogjava.net/tidelgl
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Well,I'm so sorry about my English,I learn English just for programing.My english too limit to express my mind and feelings.It's a problem. I'm tired to hear the BBC style.Because,when I am 10 years old,I heared a story talked about my town,said some people been treated terrible by our Government,sounded crazy!But nothing happend here,and people live in peace.Now,I know what BBC talk about all for against my country's society. BTW,my roommate's friend is at Tibet now,he give the real news about people there,they hate Tibet protesters!Tibet protesters try to broke the peace! Do you know how we treated Carrefour??We rush to destroy they shops,nobody bought they things when we knew they helped Tibet protesters!Our Government forbid us to do so.Because that's also a way to broke the peace!Students of my school angry about what they did!Teachers beg us not do something bad. There are 1.4billion peoble in china.A small Government can makes 1.4billion peoble live in peace is not easy,not easy!!!!!China never be stronger without this small Government,never be,even God can't say yes!!!! Well,I am not going to quarrel.I do not like talk about political.I like programing.And I am so happy that I can programing in peace.There are many people live in poor.I have try to be stronger(and rich) to help them too,likes Bill(someday). The Olypic Games need peace!The world need peace.Whereever,whenever! Well,everyone Enjoy Olypic Games.
Undeniable:More information,more abilities,more energies,more time! http://www.blogjava.net/tidelgl
Your English is better then my manderan. Code in peace.
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So were not even half way through the Olympics yet and we have realized that the little girl singing wasn't real, the firework footsteps were not real, the air in Beijing isn't real and the passports of the girls gymnastics team are not real. Seems the Chinese have forgotten for it to count it has to be real. What is real is that if you take pictures of school rubble from the earthquake and put it on the internet you will end up in a labor camp. The lack of freedom of speech and true freedom of religion in this country is very real. The oppression of people in China and Tibet and the Authoritarian government is also very real. Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year.
"Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year. " There are so many parents who want to send their child to the gymnastic team.For they think this is a chance for their child becoming a star.And their families can visite the children as their wish.Also,they can choose another future for their child. China do have a lot of problems.But when u point out them,use some suitable proof. "The oppression of people in China and Tibet" Who have been Tiebet and get some feelling about the oppression of people in Tibet?As I know,the Tibetan owns more rights than us.Tibet is one part of china from long time ago.There is no doubt about it.
goflyfreely
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They didn't teach grammar in my computer science classes
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So were not even half way through the Olympics yet and we have realized that the little girl singing wasn't real, the firework footsteps were not real, the air in Beijing isn't real and the passports of the girls gymnastics team are not real. Seems the Chinese have forgotten for it to count it has to be real. What is real is that if you take pictures of school rubble from the earthquake and put it on the internet you will end up in a labor camp. The lack of freedom of speech and true freedom of religion in this country is very real. The oppression of people in China and Tibet and the Authoritarian government is also very real. Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year.
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So were not even half way through the Olympics yet and we have realized that the little girl singing wasn't real, the firework footsteps were not real, the air in Beijing isn't real and the passports of the girls gymnastics team are not real. Seems the Chinese have forgotten for it to count it has to be real. What is real is that if you take pictures of school rubble from the earthquake and put it on the internet you will end up in a labor camp. The lack of freedom of speech and true freedom of religion in this country is very real. The oppression of people in China and Tibet and the Authoritarian government is also very real. Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year.
Tad McClellan wrote:
Its easy to forget all that all those girls that we saw in gymnastics were taken from thier families at age 3 and only see thier parents once a year.
They are sent to training by parents who want to make a better life for their kids and themselves, which is not much different from the rest of the world. Nobody is forcing the families to do so. Most of the problems in China are true. But you don't need to pity chinese, they are quite happy today comparing to 30 years ago. If you wish the country just collapse, you need to see a psychiatrist.