How much money can a programmer earn per month at your country and your city?
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Christian Graus wrote:
I've say that devs in Sydney probably make the most
In Brisbane (S.E. Queensland really), a minimally competent (with 3-5+ years experience) C++ programmer can expect at least $50k/annum. Depending on talent and additional experience, it goes up from there. Haven't followed Sydney/Melbourne for a while but historically, Sydney has shown $10-20k/annum & Melbourne $5-10k/annum over Brisbane rates. Adelaide has been roughly on par (despite the population difference) & Perth slightly higher (due mostly to the resources boom). Outside major metropolitan cities, expect much less. The difficulty of course is actually finding a job to suit your skills. Here in Aus, outside Sydney (& to a lesser degree Melbourne) C++ is widely considered a specialty these days, with more C++ work in embedded systems for hardware engineers than for software engineers (though Brisbane does have a couple of thriving game development companies). Java is typically for the enterprise, so again, limited prospects outside Sydney/Melbourne. C# & VB positions are readily available but there's a huge variance in salaries for them (boss thinks any old drop-kick can push out a .net application in no time/boss thinks knows it takes 10 years experience [in .net :laugh: ] to make a good programmer).
T-Mac-Oz
10 years ago, I didn't know any C++, let alone C#. So, I guess I have a few more years to go. ( yes, I got that you were kidding about .NET )
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Watching the U.S. news from here in Canada I'm starting to get the impression that U.S. citizens have a pretty skewed idea of what China is really like compared to the rest of the world. There is rampant capitalism and has been for a *long* time now but the impression you get watching CNN or other U.S. news netowrks is that it's a communist police state where everyone lives in fear for their lives and can't take a piss without government approval. In another time it would be called propaganda, now I just think it's down to selling advertising and catering to what people already believe rather than actually reporting news in the pure sense of the word. Everything I've seen on non U.S. sources seems to indicate quite a different story entirely. Just saying in general, not saying you personally have any particular point of view, it's just that your post reminded me of this and I'd been thinking about it for a while.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
John C wrote:
U.S. citizens have a pretty skewed idea of what China is really like
Same thing with Africa, in fact it might be worse! they think we live in the bush and have lions and elephants as pets. i once chatted with an idiot who didnt believe im from Africa cause "they dont have electricity never mind computers". When i was in Europe in 2001(mostly Austria ans Germany) the people coulnt believe that were African and white! I think most of the world has no idea that South Africa is 1st world, not 3rd.
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL
you.suck = (you.passion != Programming) -
Watching the U.S. news from here in Canada I'm starting to get the impression that U.S. citizens have a pretty skewed idea of what China is really like compared to the rest of the world. There is rampant capitalism and has been for a *long* time now but the impression you get watching CNN or other U.S. news netowrks is that it's a communist police state where everyone lives in fear for their lives and can't take a piss without government approval. In another time it would be called propaganda, now I just think it's down to selling advertising and catering to what people already believe rather than actually reporting news in the pure sense of the word. Everything I've seen on non U.S. sources seems to indicate quite a different story entirely. Just saying in general, not saying you personally have any particular point of view, it's just that your post reminded me of this and I'd been thinking about it for a while.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
John C wrote:
not saying you personally have any particular point of view
I understand your point and I agree. Thanks for bringing this up. When it comes to money, especially someone's salary, it is easy to put on blinders and think of things only as they apply to you. I was trying to think past that. Comparing my US salary to the salary in China has to be done carefully to avoid being insensitive to the differences in culture and local economy (not to mention the egos involved). That's why I admitted I don't know enough about the area to make that comparison. I only know enough to attempt to be respectful and hopefully keep my foot out of my mouth! I am fortunate to do a lot of work in Japan. And if I've learned one thing from that experience, it is that sensitivity and respect of other cultures can go a long way to overcome ignorance! :)
_If you continue to do the same things you always did,
don't be surprised if you get the same results you always got.
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John C wrote:
U.S. citizens have a pretty skewed idea of what China is really like
Same thing with Africa, in fact it might be worse! they think we live in the bush and have lions and elephants as pets. i once chatted with an idiot who didnt believe im from Africa cause "they dont have electricity never mind computers". When i was in Europe in 2001(mostly Austria ans Germany) the people coulnt believe that were African and white! I think most of the world has no idea that South Africa is 1st world, not 3rd.
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL
you.suck = (you.passion != Programming) -
John C wrote:
U.S. citizens have a pretty skewed idea of what China is really like
Same thing with Africa, in fact it might be worse! they think we live in the bush and have lions and elephants as pets. i once chatted with an idiot who didnt believe im from Africa cause "they dont have electricity never mind computers". When i was in Europe in 2001(mostly Austria ans Germany) the people coulnt believe that were African and white! I think most of the world has no idea that South Africa is 1st world, not 3rd.
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL
you.suck = (you.passion != Programming)Harvey Saayman wrote:
Same thing with Africa, in fact it might be worse! they think we live in the bush and have lions and elephants as pets. i once chatted with an idiot who didnt believe im from Africa cause "they dont have electricity never mind computers".
I'll not even get into what a lot of fools I've met imagine the Middle East and the Arab world as ...
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There's no point questioning the actions of a c0ck-juggling thunderc*nt" From the book of testy commentary by martin_hughes Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation
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Watching the U.S. news from here in Canada I'm starting to get the impression that U.S. citizens have a pretty skewed idea of what China is really like compared to the rest of the world. There is rampant capitalism and has been for a *long* time now but the impression you get watching CNN or other U.S. news netowrks is that it's a communist police state where everyone lives in fear for their lives and can't take a piss without government approval. In another time it would be called propaganda, now I just think it's down to selling advertising and catering to what people already believe rather than actually reporting news in the pure sense of the word. Everything I've seen on non U.S. sources seems to indicate quite a different story entirely. Just saying in general, not saying you personally have any particular point of view, it's just that your post reminded me of this and I'd been thinking about it for a while.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
You know, I feel a bit ashamed myself in regards to that. I was shocked at myself when my first reaction upon seeing an night image of Bejing was to exclame out loud, "damn! that's Bejing? It looks so modern." :-O
“If we are all in agreement on the decision - then I propose we postpone further discussion of this matter until our next meeting to give ourselves time to develop disagreement and perhaps gain some understanding of what the decision is all about.”-Alfred P. Sloan
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Thank you very much for your reply. That's useful for me. Thanks again.
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天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。Don't mention it :)
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There's no point questioning the actions of a c0ck-juggling thunderc*nt" From the book of testy commentary by martin_hughes Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation
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John C wrote:
U.S. citizens have a pretty skewed idea of what China is really like
Same thing with Africa, in fact it might be worse! they think we live in the bush and have lions and elephants as pets. i once chatted with an idiot who didnt believe im from Africa cause "they dont have electricity never mind computers". When i was in Europe in 2001(mostly Austria ans Germany) the people coulnt believe that were African and white! I think most of the world has no idea that South Africa is 1st world, not 3rd.
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL
you.suck = (you.passion != Programming)I moved from Australia to the US about 6 years ago. Once, arriving at the head of the queue at the supermarket I said something or other and the woman at the cash register (50ish?) started at my accent and asked where I was from. When I told her she commented 'I hear it's primitive over there'. I couldn't resist. 'Oh yeah', I said, 'we only got electricity last year'. She probably still believes it!
Rob Manderson My bloghttp://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
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A ordinary programmer can earn how much money per month at your country and your city? Me: Yantai China, 350$/month
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。When I started as a fresh grad a year ago, I was on about $2,600 per month (that's after taxes), before it's about $3,400. No idea what the real average is for someone with a few years under his belt is though.
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man
modified on Wednesday, August 20, 2008 3:51 AM
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I was curious and checked, a 2 bedroom apartment is renting in Yantai for between USD$6,560.00 and USD$10,933.00 a month. Some of those areas of China where there is rampant capitalism are through the roof. I was watching a documentary and some of the mansions in those areas for the owners of the companies and upper management are off the hook and would be the nice place on any street in Beverly Hills.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
John C wrote:
a 2 bedroom apartment is renting in Yantai for between USD$6,560.00 and USD$10,933.00 a month.
I went off line and contacted quiqul63 to find out more. From what he tells me, his rent is absolutely in line with his income of $350/month. In fact his monthly expenses are very similar to mine in terms of percentage of income (Much less for rent). Certainly he couldn't afford $10k/month. So the rates you saw must be for Westerners (are we considered Westerners by the Chinese?) and not for the locals. Of course there is a question of "standard of living" but I don't have any trustworthy information to evaluate that. Because of the media bias that you've already mentioned, I have the opinion that a "typical" house in the US is of a higher standard of living than a "typical" house in China. But I admit to being poorly informed since I have never been to China and never seen what the "typical" house there is like. I'll also admit to some of the American bias that causes us to think life is better here than everywhere else. I like to think that's part of patriotism, but it might just be ego... :~
_If you continue to do the same things you always did,
don't be surprised if you get the same results you always got.
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10 years ago, I didn't know any C++, let alone C#. So, I guess I have a few more years to go. ( yes, I got that you were kidding about .NET )
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Christian Graus wrote:
( yes, I got that you were kidding about .NET )
I wasn't kidding actually, there was another thread on CP one day about ridiculous job ads & there was one asking for 10 years C# experience. I was laughing at the stupidity of <some> bosses/managers/hr consultants.
T-Mac-Oz
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I moved from Australia to the US about 6 years ago. Once, arriving at the head of the queue at the supermarket I said something or other and the woman at the cash register (50ish?) started at my accent and asked where I was from. When I told her she commented 'I hear it's primitive over there'. I couldn't resist. 'Oh yeah', I said, 'we only got electricity last year'. She probably still believes it!
Rob Manderson My bloghttp://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
Rob Manderson wrote:
'we only got electricity last year'
Yeah, I've heard that about Australia. It's very much behind the times, especially in terms of technology. Take CodeProject for example. This #1 meeting place for software developers worldwide is something that could never be created by an Australian. It takes someone very smart and very hard working like Chris Maunder to create something like this. And everyone knows Chris is from... What? Oh, REALLY? Uh... never mind.
_If you continue to do the same things you always did,
don't be surprised if you get the same results you always got.
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A ordinary programmer can earn how much money per month at your country and your city? Me: Yantai China, 350$/month
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。guiqul163 wrote:
My Blog, welcome
Your blog is all china,right?(except Copyright ©2008 ). ;)
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I moved from Australia to the US about 6 years ago. Once, arriving at the head of the queue at the supermarket I said something or other and the woman at the cash register (50ish?) started at my accent and asked where I was from. When I told her she commented 'I hear it's primitive over there'. I couldn't resist. 'Oh yeah', I said, 'we only got electricity last year'. She probably still believes it!
Rob Manderson My bloghttp://robmanderson.blogspot.com[^]
hahaha! ya ive done the same thing but not face to face tho, over the net. tell people you go to school on your pet elephant and they believed me
Harvey Saayman - South Africa Junior Developer .Net, C#, SQL
you.suck = (you.passion != Programming) -
A ordinary programmer can earn how much money per month at your country and your city? Me: Yantai China, 350$/month
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。The minimum is about $3000 a month here. From that you need to pay $1000 in taxes and another $1000 for housing. But medical care, schooling, pensions etc are payed by the government. jhaga
How to earn $120/month.
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guiqul163 wrote:
My Blog, welcome
Your blog is all china,right?(except Copyright ©2008 ). ;)
I hope I can write article with English, but my English is very poor. :( . But I had been create a English blog, but. http://cime63.blogspot.com/ But when I wanna write article with English, I always don't know what I can write. ;P
========================================= Make friends with you all. My Blog, welcome
天气常如二三月，花技不断四时春。 -
Stephen Hewitt wrote:
Is he a better programmer than you?
I doubt it.
Captain SeeSarp ... Your nick name gives me a hell lot of doubt about your programming abilities, especially outside .NET. You ARE aware that there's programming without .NET, right? To use your wise words:
CaptainSeeSarp wrote:
I doubt it.
There's another thing your nick name is usefull: It gives out your iliteracy :doh:
To hell with circumstances; I create opportunities.
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No-one is giving much of an answer, so I will. I'd say the average is about $4,000 a month here. But, I make more than twice that, so really, the average is just that, an average, with variations.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Here in Amman, Jordan, a fresh grad gets 350JOD == 500USD per month. Of course that's not worth a dog's diddle these days here.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There's no point questioning the actions of a c0ck-juggling thunderc*nt" From the book of testy commentary by martin_hughes Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
in Amman, Jordan, a fresh grad gets 350JOD == 500USD per month
In Lebanon fresh grad. start with 600-700 and reach to 1500 with 3 years exp.
The Developer - CEH
The Developer wrote:
600-700 and reach to 1500 with 3 years exp.
Where are you getting these numbers? I didn't work in Lebanon because the salaries were worse than here. Unless things have changed considerably in the last 8 years.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There's no point questioning the actions of a c0ck-juggling thunderc*nt" From the book of testy commentary by martin_hughes Unix is a Four Letter Word, and Vi is a Two Letter Abbreviation