Pi and me..
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Well, even if I believed in aliens that were self-conscious physical beings living somewhere other than earth... the question is incomplete. It sounds like you're assuming that these aliens are as smart or smarter than humans. (If so, which humans? ;P) Why assume that? :)
It sounds like you're assuming that these aliens are as smart or smarter than humans. Why assume that? Why not? The galaxy, as we know it, is really huge. I was always told that there is no beginning and no end. Which is, imho, very strange because everything should have a place to begin, and a place to end. Except for a circle, or (the inside of) a ball. Is the galaxy a cirkel? If so, what's on the outside of that circle? Since the galaxy is so very big, I think the chances that there is alien live are very big as well. Why can't there be more out there like us? Or even smarter? -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
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It sounds like you're assuming that these aliens are as smart or smarter than humans. Why assume that? Why not? The galaxy, as we know it, is really huge. I was always told that there is no beginning and no end. Which is, imho, very strange because everything should have a place to begin, and a place to end. Except for a circle, or (the inside of) a ball. Is the galaxy a cirkel? If so, what's on the outside of that circle? Since the galaxy is so very big, I think the chances that there is alien live are very big as well. Why can't there be more out there like us? Or even smarter? -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
That's a decent answer, but it's based upon a couple of assumptions that I don't subscribe to. Assumption 1 -- the galaxy has no beginning or end. Assumption 2 -- the theory of evolution is fact. I think it's more sensible to believe that the universe is bounded (and you said that yourself). Here's an interesting link. BTW, God would be "outside of that circle", and He doesn't have a beginning or end. The second assumption is questioned as well by the site hosting the above link, and is the main reason people believe that physical beings exist on other plants. As for aliens in general, a good presentation of my basic take on that is found here. (Though I don't agree with them 100%.) John
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That's a decent answer, but it's based upon a couple of assumptions that I don't subscribe to. Assumption 1 -- the galaxy has no beginning or end. Assumption 2 -- the theory of evolution is fact. I think it's more sensible to believe that the universe is bounded (and you said that yourself). Here's an interesting link. BTW, God would be "outside of that circle", and He doesn't have a beginning or end. The second assumption is questioned as well by the site hosting the above link, and is the main reason people believe that physical beings exist on other plants. As for aliens in general, a good presentation of my basic take on that is found here. (Though I don't agree with them 100%.) John
The used language/words in the first article are hard to understand for a non-English person. Although I've tried very hard and I think I understand the idea that is being told on Questions Online. BTW, God would be "outside of that circle" Meaning, He doesn't have anything to do with it or he's on the outside of the circle? I'm afraid I can't share the thought that there is a God, or anything similair. Although I can understand people believing in it. It's hard to understand things that we can't see or touch, and for that reason I refuse to believe anything that can't be touched. (although I do believe in aliens, pretty weird actually :)) I'll read the second article you describe in your message tomorrow. Although it's very interesting stuff to read about, it's also 1am in the Netherlands .. X| One more thing: don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing a god with an alien in this message, I'm only trying to give my point of view. -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
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Sounds logical. But maybe they've thought of an even better, more simple way to calculate the volume of such an object, which we just don't know yet (and maybe never will). After all, we're only human.. :) -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
Even so, pi is a basic physical relationship that would hold true anywhere in the universe, it's logical to assume that even if they don't USE pi, they'd know of it's existance as a mathematical constant, even as we know what a slide rule is, but do not use them. Christian The content of this post is not necessarily the opinion of my yadda yadda yadda. To understand recursion, we must first understand recursion.
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The used language/words in the first article are hard to understand for a non-English person. Although I've tried very hard and I think I understand the idea that is being told on Questions Online. BTW, God would be "outside of that circle" Meaning, He doesn't have anything to do with it or he's on the outside of the circle? I'm afraid I can't share the thought that there is a God, or anything similair. Although I can understand people believing in it. It's hard to understand things that we can't see or touch, and for that reason I refuse to believe anything that can't be touched. (although I do believe in aliens, pretty weird actually :)) I'll read the second article you describe in your message tomorrow. Although it's very interesting stuff to read about, it's also 1am in the Netherlands .. X| One more thing: don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing a god with an alien in this message, I'm only trying to give my point of view. -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
Good morning! I hope you had a good night's rest. (At least I assume from your previous message that you're reading this after having slept.) I wish I could help with the non-English problem, but the only other languages I know are computer languages. ;P You have excellent written English for someone who doesn't use it as their natural language. >>BTW, God would be "outside of that circle" >Meaning, He doesn't have anything to do with it or he's on the outside of the circle? Technically, God is both inside and outside the circle of the universe (which includes time itself). I don't know that I'll ever comprehend that one, but I can "understand" it. He is definitely involved in the universe since the Bible tells us that He is "...upholding all things by the word of his power..." (Hebrews 1:3) I really don't blame anyone for having a problem with believing in God by default. He simply isn't part of the prevailing knowledge systems as taught in most countries. But it is interesting that you say, "I refuse to believe anything that can't be touched." Already, you probably believe several things that would contradict that statement (including aliens, but they could be touched if they exist the way you believe them to). You probably believe that you have some sort of "emotions". Maybe you "love" someone. Gravity and other forces can't be seen or touched, but they have an obvious effect. Once studied, a person can conclude based on reasonable thought and lots of evidence that God very certainly does exist. If you'd like help or just a start on that process, let me know. :) John
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The used language/words in the first article are hard to understand for a non-English person. Although I've tried very hard and I think I understand the idea that is being told on Questions Online. BTW, God would be "outside of that circle" Meaning, He doesn't have anything to do with it or he's on the outside of the circle? I'm afraid I can't share the thought that there is a God, or anything similair. Although I can understand people believing in it. It's hard to understand things that we can't see or touch, and for that reason I refuse to believe anything that can't be touched. (although I do believe in aliens, pretty weird actually :)) I'll read the second article you describe in your message tomorrow. Although it's very interesting stuff to read about, it's also 1am in the Netherlands .. X| One more thing: don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing a god with an alien in this message, I'm only trying to give my point of view. -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
It's always interesting to me that so many people accept ideas that have no available evidence attached to them ( i.e. aliens ) find it impossible to believe in God. I don't believe in aliens because I don't believe in evolution. I believe in God because I have recieved proof in the form of a phyical ongoing experience with Him. Oh. I don't buy the young earth theory though, because the Bible doesn't say that. But that is another story, and we're already WAY off topic :) Christian The content of this post is not necessarily the opinion of my yadda yadda yadda. To understand recursion, we must first understand recursion.
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I do agree (See my previous posting about Pi "Pi to 10 000 decimal places") that it isn't really a thrill to get the first 1000, 10000 or 100000 digits of Pi. But I'm actually very curious about everything that there is to know about the magical number Pi. Which brings me to my question: If there ever was or will be alien live, will they know about the number Pi? -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
An interesting new site that has something different to say about Pi: http://www.flamingpi.org Worth a look.
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I do agree (See my previous posting about Pi "Pi to 10 000 decimal places") that it isn't really a thrill to get the first 1000, 10000 or 100000 digits of Pi. But I'm actually very curious about everything that there is to know about the magical number Pi. Which brings me to my question: If there ever was or will be alien live, will they know about the number Pi? -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
That depends on whether we ask him/her/it before or after you?!?!?! :-D There's a Monte Carlo calculation of Pi here too: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~u951581/pi/MonteCarlo/pi.MonteCarlo.html ATL Student :rolleyes:
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The used language/words in the first article are hard to understand for a non-English person. Although I've tried very hard and I think I understand the idea that is being told on Questions Online. BTW, God would be "outside of that circle" Meaning, He doesn't have anything to do with it or he's on the outside of the circle? I'm afraid I can't share the thought that there is a God, or anything similair. Although I can understand people believing in it. It's hard to understand things that we can't see or touch, and for that reason I refuse to believe anything that can't be touched. (although I do believe in aliens, pretty weird actually :)) I'll read the second article you describe in your message tomorrow. Although it's very interesting stuff to read about, it's also 1am in the Netherlands .. X| One more thing: don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing a god with an alien in this message, I'm only trying to give my point of view. -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
The fundamental problem with the God-theory is that it doesn't actually explain anything, it just substitutes one unanswerable question with another. So to avoid unnecessarily complicating my world-view, I choose not to believe in divine beings or other supernatural entities.
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I do agree (See my previous posting about Pi "Pi to 10 000 decimal places") that it isn't really a thrill to get the first 1000, 10000 or 100000 digits of Pi. But I'm actually very curious about everything that there is to know about the magical number Pi. Which brings me to my question: If there ever was or will be alien live, will they know about the number Pi? -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
If there ever was or will be alien live, will they know about the number Pi? As Carl Sagan said , maths is a universal language. He propose to search for radio-signals that contain sequence of prime numbers, since only intelligent life can know the meaning and generate such signals. Sure other sequences like the Pi digits or the fibonachi sequences will do. (Today SETI just search for powerfull enough signals) Platon said that Mathematical & geometrical ideas/concepts DO EXIST in a parallel universe, where the human mind is a gate to see those items. (There is no perfect cicle or a perfectly 90o triagle or two perfectly parallel lines in this world). So, maths in general, will be the "Rosseta stone" between us and any alien life. my thoughts: Does a seperate perfect cicle exist in the brain of everyone of use, or we all share the thought of the single perfect cicle ? X| - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
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It sounds like you're assuming that these aliens are as smart or smarter than humans. Why assume that? Why not? The galaxy, as we know it, is really huge. I was always told that there is no beginning and no end. Which is, imho, very strange because everything should have a place to begin, and a place to end. Except for a circle, or (the inside of) a ball. Is the galaxy a cirkel? If so, what's on the outside of that circle? Since the galaxy is so very big, I think the chances that there is alien live are very big as well. Why can't there be more out there like us? Or even smarter? -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
Since the galaxy is so very big, I think the chances that there is alien live are very big as well. Why can't there be more out there like us? Or even smarter? And the chances of loosing my job from a desguasting-green-little-creature who knows HTML, equally big. :-D - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234
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The fundamental problem with the God-theory is that it doesn't actually explain anything, it just substitutes one unanswerable question with another. So to avoid unnecessarily complicating my world-view, I choose not to believe in divine beings or other supernatural entities.
To get even further off-topic... What unanswerable questions are you referring to? I can think of a few unanswerable questions about God, and a few questions about the universe that most people think of as unanswerable. The major difference between the two is that God exists outside of the universe and is unbound by the laws that rule our universe and bind our thinking. So, it is inherently difficult to understand Him. The universe is bound by all the laws and principles we operate under. So it requires a beginning and end, a cause and effect, etc. God is that First Cause, and successfully answers the question of where the universe actually came from. Just because we can't understand everything about Him, doesn't make it a "substitution of one unanswerable question with another". (BTW, just because humans can't answer the question doesn't make it truly unanswerable. By definition, an infinite and intelligent Being knows the answers.) John
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Good morning! I hope you had a good night's rest. (At least I assume from your previous message that you're reading this after having slept.) I wish I could help with the non-English problem, but the only other languages I know are computer languages. ;P You have excellent written English for someone who doesn't use it as their natural language. >>BTW, God would be "outside of that circle" >Meaning, He doesn't have anything to do with it or he's on the outside of the circle? Technically, God is both inside and outside the circle of the universe (which includes time itself). I don't know that I'll ever comprehend that one, but I can "understand" it. He is definitely involved in the universe since the Bible tells us that He is "...upholding all things by the word of his power..." (Hebrews 1:3) I really don't blame anyone for having a problem with believing in God by default. He simply isn't part of the prevailing knowledge systems as taught in most countries. But it is interesting that you say, "I refuse to believe anything that can't be touched." Already, you probably believe several things that would contradict that statement (including aliens, but they could be touched if they exist the way you believe them to). You probably believe that you have some sort of "emotions". Maybe you "love" someone. Gravity and other forces can't be seen or touched, but they have an obvious effect. Once studied, a person can conclude based on reasonable thought and lots of evidence that God very certainly does exist. If you'd like help or just a start on that process, let me know. :) John
I hope you had a good night's rest. Yes I did, thank you. Had a great day at work as well :) Thanks for your compliment on my English, I appreciate! You're right about me believing in untouchable things, like 'love', and other kind of emotions. Ofcourse that's true. These things are untouchable, but at least that's something you can feel. I know when I'm in love. Is there a similair feeling for believing? I must admit I never tried to believe in a God as well. -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
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I hope you had a good night's rest. Yes I did, thank you. Had a great day at work as well :) Thanks for your compliment on my English, I appreciate! You're right about me believing in untouchable things, like 'love', and other kind of emotions. Ofcourse that's true. These things are untouchable, but at least that's something you can feel. I know when I'm in love. Is there a similair feeling for believing? I must admit I never tried to believe in a God as well. -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
There certainly is a strong feeling associated with a proper belief in God, but there is a lot more to it than that. First the "more". I still believe God even when I don't feel like it. That's because my mind has been convinced by logic and evidence that He is most certainly there and that the things He tells us are true. Without this support, whatever feelings I would have along with my belief would be next to useless. Also, notice that I said a "proper" belief in God. An actual relationship with Him is required for this wonderful feeling and because of the vast differences between God and humans, He has set up certain rules for obtaining that relationship. So, yes a feeling is definitely there, but you don't get it by just deciding to believe that God exists. John
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It's always interesting to me that so many people accept ideas that have no available evidence attached to them ( i.e. aliens ) find it impossible to believe in God. I don't believe in aliens because I don't believe in evolution. I believe in God because I have recieved proof in the form of a phyical ongoing experience with Him. Oh. I don't buy the young earth theory though, because the Bible doesn't say that. But that is another story, and we're already WAY off topic :) Christian The content of this post is not necessarily the opinion of my yadda yadda yadda. To understand recursion, we must first understand recursion.
I must correct you with the first statement : find it impossible to believe in God. I don't think non-believers find it impossible to believe in God. I think it's all about 'allowing yourself to believe', or 'give yourself the chance to believe'. I've had religious lessons on high-school and I think I missed 90% of them. That's not a good thing to do, I know, but at the age of 16 .. I thought I had better things to do. Maybe my view at today's world would have been very different if I followed those classes. I do believe in the evolution-theory, and I believe in aliens as well. But I also think perhaps there is a God, or anything similair. There is an awful lot we don't know about, or we simply refuse to see things. .. and we're already WAY off topic That's true, but who cares? It's a very interesting subject, for both believers and non-believers I think :) -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
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The fundamental problem with the God-theory is that it doesn't actually explain anything, it just substitutes one unanswerable question with another. So to avoid unnecessarily complicating my world-view, I choose not to believe in divine beings or other supernatural entities.
.. it just substitutes one unanswerable question with another. Maybe those questions remain un-answered at this moment. About 150 years ago, nobody would know that a human being could fly (in an airplane, that is). Nowadays it's common to get on an airplane and fly to wherever you want to be (except for me, because I'm terrified of flying :() Like you, I don't believe in a God or a similair person. But I'm always open for suggestions. And ofcourse, when Judgement Day comes, I will certainly change my mind :) -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
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To get even further off-topic... What unanswerable questions are you referring to? I can think of a few unanswerable questions about God, and a few questions about the universe that most people think of as unanswerable. The major difference between the two is that God exists outside of the universe and is unbound by the laws that rule our universe and bind our thinking. So, it is inherently difficult to understand Him. The universe is bound by all the laws and principles we operate under. So it requires a beginning and end, a cause and effect, etc. God is that First Cause, and successfully answers the question of where the universe actually came from. Just because we can't understand everything about Him, doesn't make it a "substitution of one unanswerable question with another". (BTW, just because humans can't answer the question doesn't make it truly unanswerable. By definition, an infinite and intelligent Being knows the answers.) John
This one's difficult: The major difference between the two is that God exists outside of the universe.. There will be a God without the universe, but there will not be a universe without God? -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
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There certainly is a strong feeling associated with a proper belief in God, but there is a lot more to it than that. First the "more". I still believe God even when I don't feel like it. That's because my mind has been convinced by logic and evidence that He is most certainly there and that the things He tells us are true. Without this support, whatever feelings I would have along with my belief would be next to useless. Also, notice that I said a "proper" belief in God. An actual relationship with Him is required for this wonderful feeling and because of the vast differences between God and humans, He has set up certain rules for obtaining that relationship. So, yes a feeling is definitely there, but you don't get it by just deciding to believe that God exists. John
Do you think about Him, like you would think of a (close) friend? How about things like praying, is that necessary or is that a way of expressing your feelings, and a way of say 'Thank You'? Once again, I don't mean to be rude in any way. Sometimes it looks like that when I read back my own sentences. I'm just missing the right words sometimes :) -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
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Do you think about Him, like you would think of a (close) friend? How about things like praying, is that necessary or is that a way of expressing your feelings, and a way of say 'Thank You'? Once again, I don't mean to be rude in any way. Sometimes it looks like that when I read back my own sentences. I'm just missing the right words sometimes :) -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
Do you think about Him, like you would think of a (close) friend? Yes. Sometimes I'm a bad friend and forget He's always with me, but He never fails me. How about things like praying, is that necessary or is that a way of expressing your feelings, and a way of say 'Thank You'? That's almost a trick question. :) It is necessary because it's the way He wants us to talk to Him and He makes it very clear that He wants to fellowship with us. I certainly do express my feelings through prayer, by thanking Him, worshipping Him, and asking for help to do what's right. Today, we don't have the benefit of audible communication with Him, but He tells us what we need in the Bible, and promises that true believers will live with Him forever and have complete communication directly with Him. Once again, I don't mean to be rude in any way. Sometimes it looks like that when I read back my own sentences. I'm just missing the right words sometimes. Don't worry, I do the same thing quite often. ;) John
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This one's difficult: The major difference between the two is that God exists outside of the universe.. There will be a God without the universe, but there will not be a universe without God? -- Alex Marbus www.marbus.net But then again, I could be wrong.
Yep. Why do I think so? First, because Genesis 1:1 says that it's already happened that way before. Second, we learn that the universe would fall apart without Him from Hebrews 1:3. Third, this is going to happen in the future (if I read the verses right) -- 2 Peter 3:10 says that the heavens (universe) will pass away,the elements will melt away, and the earth will be completely destroyed. Then, Revelation 21:1-3 tells us that God will create a new heaven and new earth where He will actually live with those who have believed Him during their lifetimes. I think this is just great stuff. Keep the questions coming if I haven't offended you. :-D John