The 30 Day "No IDE" Challenge
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
I can guarantee one thing however, if we all developed with a text editor instead of an IDE that crap called properties would have never been introduced.
What makes you say that? :confused:
Cheers, Vıkram.
"You idiot British surprise me that your generators which grew up after Mid 50s had no brain at all." - Adnan Siddiqi.
Try it for a few weeks and just see how annoying it is to manage methods vs properties.
Need software developed? Offering C# development all over the United States, ERL GLOBAL, Inc is the only call you will have to make.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. -- Ernest Hemingway
Most of this sig is for Google, not ego. -
If you've ever watched this show[^], you've probably seen people depriving themselves from the most common things that they take for granted. Now, aside from your day job, what would happen if you forced yourself to use only command-line build tools (such as NAnt, NUnit, and MSbuild) for your personal projects at home? At the end of thirty days, how would that change the way you write code? Here are the rules: -You cannot use any IDE to build your personal code (that means no VS2008, SharpDevelop, MonoDevelop, or any other IDE out there). "Personal code" is any code that you write as a hobby. * -You *can* use graphical text editors with syntax highlighting, but they CANNOT have any form of Intellisense or code completion. -You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects. *You can, of course, use any tool you wish if it is a work-related task. Everyone here has to make a living, somehow. :) Right now, this idea is just on the drawing board, but I figured that I'd post the basic rules for the challenge to the CP community and see if I can get it refined before I take the challenge myself. Depending on the feedback, I'll either blog about it or put up a series of articles on CP regarding "Kicking the IDE Habit". So what do you guys think? Do the rules seem fair enough? Anyone else want to take the challenge with me?
Do you know...LinFu?
Gosh. I don't have the desire to! But I know it would probably help my development career! Can I borrow some of your enthusiasm? :) OT: I was looking at LinFu and reading your blog. It's clear you really care about code quality. I'm going to take a serious look at LinFu this weekend.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Gosh. I don't have the desire to! But I know it would probably help my development career! Can I borrow some of your enthusiasm? :) OT: I was looking at LinFu and reading your blog. It's clear you really care about code quality. I'm going to take a serious look at LinFu this weekend.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
Gosh. I don't have the desire to! But I know it would probably help my development career! Can I borrow some of your enthusiasm? Smile OT: I was looking at LinFu and reading your blog. It's clear you really care about code quality. I'm going to take a serious look at LinFu this weekend.
Thanks. :) Take a look at it, and let me know what you think. I'm always open to constructive criticism.
Do you know...LinFu?
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If you've ever watched this show[^], you've probably seen people depriving themselves from the most common things that they take for granted. Now, aside from your day job, what would happen if you forced yourself to use only command-line build tools (such as NAnt, NUnit, and MSbuild) for your personal projects at home? At the end of thirty days, how would that change the way you write code? Here are the rules: -You cannot use any IDE to build your personal code (that means no VS2008, SharpDevelop, MonoDevelop, or any other IDE out there). "Personal code" is any code that you write as a hobby. * -You *can* use graphical text editors with syntax highlighting, but they CANNOT have any form of Intellisense or code completion. -You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects. *You can, of course, use any tool you wish if it is a work-related task. Everyone here has to make a living, somehow. :) Right now, this idea is just on the drawing board, but I figured that I'd post the basic rules for the challenge to the CP community and see if I can get it refined before I take the challenge myself. Depending on the feedback, I'll either blog about it or put up a series of articles on CP regarding "Kicking the IDE Habit". So what do you guys think? Do the rules seem fair enough? Anyone else want to take the challenge with me?
Do you know...LinFu?
28 years. Never used an IDE. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN. I won't discount an IDEs usefulness, my situation is such that there isn't one available in the environment I work. How about not using a debugger? Or, if you really want to add to the experience, try limiting yourself to one compile a day. Both of these practices will quickly encourage a defensive style of coding and stress the importance of a solid initial design.
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28 years. Never used an IDE. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN. I won't discount an IDEs usefulness, my situation is such that there isn't one available in the environment I work. How about not using a debugger? Or, if you really want to add to the experience, try limiting yourself to one compile a day. Both of these practices will quickly encourage a defensive style of coding and stress the importance of a solid initial design.
Interesting. We live in very different worlds! I can see how such practices would lead to a very defensive, careful coding style.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Judah Himango wrote:
Gosh. I don't have the desire to! But I know it would probably help my development career! Can I borrow some of your enthusiasm? Smile OT: I was looking at LinFu and reading your blog. It's clear you really care about code quality. I'm going to take a serious look at LinFu this weekend.
Thanks. :) Take a look at it, and let me know what you think. I'm always open to constructive criticism.
Do you know...LinFu?
Just browsing the SVN checkout and tinkerin', one thing that comes up right away, a pet peeve of mine , building the solution results in 8 compiler warnings. Most of 'em are easy to fix. Will give you some real feedback as time goes one. Hopefully this weekend I can give it a real spin.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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If you've ever watched this show[^], you've probably seen people depriving themselves from the most common things that they take for granted. Now, aside from your day job, what would happen if you forced yourself to use only command-line build tools (such as NAnt, NUnit, and MSbuild) for your personal projects at home? At the end of thirty days, how would that change the way you write code? Here are the rules: -You cannot use any IDE to build your personal code (that means no VS2008, SharpDevelop, MonoDevelop, or any other IDE out there). "Personal code" is any code that you write as a hobby. * -You *can* use graphical text editors with syntax highlighting, but they CANNOT have any form of Intellisense or code completion. -You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects. *You can, of course, use any tool you wish if it is a work-related task. Everyone here has to make a living, somehow. :) Right now, this idea is just on the drawing board, but I figured that I'd post the basic rules for the challenge to the CP community and see if I can get it refined before I take the challenge myself. Depending on the feedback, I'll either blog about it or put up a series of articles on CP regarding "Kicking the IDE Habit". So what do you guys think? Do the rules seem fair enough? Anyone else want to take the challenge with me?
Do you know...LinFu?
May we use .bat files, or do we have to memorize the command line options and type them in everytime? :)
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on! A post a day, keeps the white coats away!
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If you've ever watched this show[^], you've probably seen people depriving themselves from the most common things that they take for granted. Now, aside from your day job, what would happen if you forced yourself to use only command-line build tools (such as NAnt, NUnit, and MSbuild) for your personal projects at home? At the end of thirty days, how would that change the way you write code? Here are the rules: -You cannot use any IDE to build your personal code (that means no VS2008, SharpDevelop, MonoDevelop, or any other IDE out there). "Personal code" is any code that you write as a hobby. * -You *can* use graphical text editors with syntax highlighting, but they CANNOT have any form of Intellisense or code completion. -You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects. *You can, of course, use any tool you wish if it is a work-related task. Everyone here has to make a living, somehow. :) Right now, this idea is just on the drawing board, but I figured that I'd post the basic rules for the challenge to the CP community and see if I can get it refined before I take the challenge myself. Depending on the feedback, I'll either blog about it or put up a series of articles on CP regarding "Kicking the IDE Habit". So what do you guys think? Do the rules seem fair enough? Anyone else want to take the challenge with me?
Do you know...LinFu?
I never used Visual Studio until late 2003, until then I was doing all C on OpenVMS with embedded SQL (Pro*C). (On OpenVMS, I still use EDT.) In college I used Turbo Pascal, Turbo C, and Turbo C++, but I didn't use them on the job. I use EDIT and the command-line compiler (C#) most of the time at home.
C:\WINDOWS>edit /?
MS-DOS Editor Version 2.0.026 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corp 1995.
I wouldn't attempt to write a WinForms application without the designer; but for library and unit test code, even Windows (and Web?) Services, there's no need for Visual Studio.
Philip Laureano wrote:
-You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects.
Are you aware that Visual Studio can be used a command-line tool?
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\Common7\IDE>devenv /?
Microsoft (R) Visual Studio Version 9.0.21022.8.
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp. All rights reserved.Use:
devenv [solutionfile | projectfile | anyfile.ext] [switches] -
Just browsing the SVN checkout and tinkerin', one thing that comes up right away, a pet peeve of mine , building the solution results in 8 compiler warnings. Most of 'em are easy to fix. Will give you some real feedback as time goes one. Hopefully this weekend I can give it a real spin.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
Just browsing the SVN checkout and tinkerin', one thing that comes up right away, a pet peeve of mine , building the solution results in 8 compiler warnings. Most of 'em are easy to fix. Will give you some real feedback as time goes one. Hopefully this weekend I can give it a real spin.
Ahh, well you're probably looking at the trunk branch--that's version 1--my old code. Right now, I'm working on v2 on the stable branch, and the difference between the two versions is anything but subtle. :) V1 was what I call the 'hobbyist' version, and V2 is the product-grade version. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to look at it!
Do you know...LinFu?
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May we use .bat files, or do we have to memorize the command line options and type them in everytime? :)
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on! A post a day, keeps the white coats away!
Steve Echols wrote:
May we use .bat files, or do we have to memorize the command line options and type them in everytime?
Command line: Good :) IDE: Bad :P If you can memorize every command line option, then I shall bow down to your l33t skillz. :laugh:
Do you know...LinFu?
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Judah Himango wrote:
Just browsing the SVN checkout and tinkerin', one thing that comes up right away, a pet peeve of mine , building the solution results in 8 compiler warnings. Most of 'em are easy to fix. Will give you some real feedback as time goes one. Hopefully this weekend I can give it a real spin.
Ahh, well you're probably looking at the trunk branch--that's version 1--my old code. Right now, I'm working on v2 on the stable branch, and the difference between the two versions is anything but subtle. :) V1 was what I call the 'hobbyist' version, and V2 is the product-grade version. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to look at it!
Do you know...LinFu?
Ah, ok. I suppose I should checkout V2 then! :) I saw your blog saying how much effort you put into testing and documenting in V2.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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I never used Visual Studio until late 2003, until then I was doing all C on OpenVMS with embedded SQL (Pro*C). (On OpenVMS, I still use EDT.) In college I used Turbo Pascal, Turbo C, and Turbo C++, but I didn't use them on the job. I use EDIT and the command-line compiler (C#) most of the time at home.
C:\WINDOWS>edit /?
MS-DOS Editor Version 2.0.026 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corp 1995.
I wouldn't attempt to write a WinForms application without the designer; but for library and unit test code, even Windows (and Web?) Services, there's no need for Visual Studio.
Philip Laureano wrote:
-You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects.
Are you aware that Visual Studio can be used a command-line tool?
C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\Common7\IDE>devenv /?
Microsoft (R) Visual Studio Version 9.0.21022.8.
Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp. All rights reserved.Use:
devenv [solutionfile | projectfile | anyfile.ext] [switches]PIEBALDconsult wrote:
Are you aware that Visual Studio can be used a command-line tool?
I didn't know about that one. I always assumed that it was just a very polished frontend GUI for a compiler. I'll definitely look into it!
Do you know...LinFu?
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Steve Echols wrote:
May we use .bat files, or do we have to memorize the command line options and type them in everytime?
Command line: Good :) IDE: Bad :P If you can memorize every command line option, then I shall bow down to your l33t skillz. :laugh:
Do you know...LinFu?
Philip Laureano wrote:
If you can memorize every command line option, then I shall bow down to your l33t skillz.
Maybe back in the MASM days, but not anymore. :)
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on! A post a day, keeps the white coats away!
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If you've ever watched this show[^], you've probably seen people depriving themselves from the most common things that they take for granted. Now, aside from your day job, what would happen if you forced yourself to use only command-line build tools (such as NAnt, NUnit, and MSbuild) for your personal projects at home? At the end of thirty days, how would that change the way you write code? Here are the rules: -You cannot use any IDE to build your personal code (that means no VS2008, SharpDevelop, MonoDevelop, or any other IDE out there). "Personal code" is any code that you write as a hobby. * -You *can* use graphical text editors with syntax highlighting, but they CANNOT have any form of Intellisense or code completion. -You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects. *You can, of course, use any tool you wish if it is a work-related task. Everyone here has to make a living, somehow. :) Right now, this idea is just on the drawing board, but I figured that I'd post the basic rules for the challenge to the CP community and see if I can get it refined before I take the challenge myself. Depending on the feedback, I'll either blog about it or put up a series of articles on CP regarding "Kicking the IDE Habit". So what do you guys think? Do the rules seem fair enough? Anyone else want to take the challenge with me?
Do you know...LinFu?
It takes a certain mindset to do this challenge. Not everyone would see a point in it. I have moved away from using Borland Delphi / MS Visual Studio / MyEclipse to using Emacs and GNU compilers. Sure some people might say that's retarded but like I said, not everyone finds it exciting. Emacs and the GNU compilers are available on pretty much every platform, so if I have a terminal running pretty much any OS, I'm in business. I don't miss IntelliSense all that much. It forces me to look at the online help, and there are so many nuggets of information there to make it worth my while. Alan
Code In Peace!
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A development environment with templates as part of the language? Nice!
Do you know...LinFu?
Philip Laureano wrote:
A development environment with templates as part of the language? Nice!
What about C++? Seriously though, Clarion's a nice idea but painfully implemented, total POS. Did some work in it about a year & a half ago. Trying to anything "outside the square" is really difficult and documentation is practically non-existent. Looks like Clarion# might improve the situation somewhat :) but I'll leave it to others to determine that for themselves, once bitten ...
T-Mac-Oz "When I'm ruler of the universe ... I'm working on it, I'm working on it. I'm just as frustrated as you are. It turns out to be a non-trivial problem." - Linus Torvalds
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You mean everyone hear doesn't do that already? I was under the impression that the sissies used notepad and the real men... Well the real mean use the command line. I gyet ner ideer whuctch yoo beeein dreekin' but if'n yu dunt myind sheerin' I be mutch abliged! ;P
code-frog wrote:
Well the real mean use the command line.
C:> copy con HelloWorld.cpp ...^z :-D
T-Mac-Oz "When I'm ruler of the universe ... I'm working on it, I'm working on it. I'm just as frustrated as you are. It turns out to be a non-trivial problem." - Linus Torvalds
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If you've ever watched this show[^], you've probably seen people depriving themselves from the most common things that they take for granted. Now, aside from your day job, what would happen if you forced yourself to use only command-line build tools (such as NAnt, NUnit, and MSbuild) for your personal projects at home? At the end of thirty days, how would that change the way you write code? Here are the rules: -You cannot use any IDE to build your personal code (that means no VS2008, SharpDevelop, MonoDevelop, or any other IDE out there). "Personal code" is any code that you write as a hobby. * -You *can* use graphical text editors with syntax highlighting, but they CANNOT have any form of Intellisense or code completion. -You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects. *You can, of course, use any tool you wish if it is a work-related task. Everyone here has to make a living, somehow. :) Right now, this idea is just on the drawing board, but I figured that I'd post the basic rules for the challenge to the CP community and see if I can get it refined before I take the challenge myself. Depending on the feedback, I'll either blog about it or put up a series of articles on CP regarding "Kicking the IDE Habit". So what do you guys think? Do the rules seem fair enough? Anyone else want to take the challenge with me?
Do you know...LinFu?
I stopped using the visual designer for my web apps some time ago. At first I used to 'draw' pages, now I code them entirely by hand and almost never use the design view in Visual Studio. Syntax highlighting, IntelliSense + R# is all I need. :)
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If you've ever watched this show[^], you've probably seen people depriving themselves from the most common things that they take for granted. Now, aside from your day job, what would happen if you forced yourself to use only command-line build tools (such as NAnt, NUnit, and MSbuild) for your personal projects at home? At the end of thirty days, how would that change the way you write code? Here are the rules: -You cannot use any IDE to build your personal code (that means no VS2008, SharpDevelop, MonoDevelop, or any other IDE out there). "Personal code" is any code that you write as a hobby. * -You *can* use graphical text editors with syntax highlighting, but they CANNOT have any form of Intellisense or code completion. -You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects. *You can, of course, use any tool you wish if it is a work-related task. Everyone here has to make a living, somehow. :) Right now, this idea is just on the drawing board, but I figured that I'd post the basic rules for the challenge to the CP community and see if I can get it refined before I take the challenge myself. Depending on the feedback, I'll either blog about it or put up a series of articles on CP regarding "Kicking the IDE Habit". So what do you guys think? Do the rules seem fair enough? Anyone else want to take the challenge with me?
Do you know...LinFu?
Some of us have been programming long enough that what you are describing was our day to day life for many years. I don't know about anyone else but you can take my ide when you pry it from my cold dead fingers. :)
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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If you've ever watched this show[^], you've probably seen people depriving themselves from the most common things that they take for granted. Now, aside from your day job, what would happen if you forced yourself to use only command-line build tools (such as NAnt, NUnit, and MSbuild) for your personal projects at home? At the end of thirty days, how would that change the way you write code? Here are the rules: -You cannot use any IDE to build your personal code (that means no VS2008, SharpDevelop, MonoDevelop, or any other IDE out there). "Personal code" is any code that you write as a hobby. * -You *can* use graphical text editors with syntax highlighting, but they CANNOT have any form of Intellisense or code completion. -You must use either NAnt or MSBuild, or the command line compiler for your favorite language to build your projects. *You can, of course, use any tool you wish if it is a work-related task. Everyone here has to make a living, somehow. :) Right now, this idea is just on the drawing board, but I figured that I'd post the basic rules for the challenge to the CP community and see if I can get it refined before I take the challenge myself. Depending on the feedback, I'll either blog about it or put up a series of articles on CP regarding "Kicking the IDE Habit". So what do you guys think? Do the rules seem fair enough? Anyone else want to take the challenge with me?
Do you know...LinFu?
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Philip Laureano wrote:
You've got a point there--the problem is that I don't have the luxury of using VS2008 in a non-windows environment, and I need to learn how to do without the IDE and learn how to build apps with the command line tool (which is probably going to be nant, in this case). I realize that there are platform-independent IDEs as well, but I want the build process to be consistent despite whatever platform I use.
MonoDevelop support MsBuild file. csproj are MsBuild file! Solution: work with VS on Windows and #develop / Mono on other platform and maintain your project with MsBuild, it's all good!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
