Is the .NET Framework a successful platform?
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I think the Windows Task Scheduler is. It's certainly good enough for some folks around here, and it's probably huge, considering its evident scope and breadth.
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I think the Windows Task Scheduler is.
I seriously doubt it. Examples of its use on MSDN are good ol' COM with C++[^]
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I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
> Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET? I guess that depends on what you consider "big" -- now that I fixed the GDI speed for large graphs one of my customers has an app that does some pretty important stuff. but mass populace will never see it so "big" is relative.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
GC needs to determine which blocks can be released and which not
But your application doesn't need to determine when to call free. When you know when to call delete/free, of course that's faster than using a GC. But I think the GC beats most smart pointers / manual reference tracking mechanisms. It would be nice to have a language that allows both allocating from a manually managed heap and a garbage collected heap (and from the stack); but then again, that would introduce whole new classes of bugs (more allocation types = more possibilities to confuse them).
Afaik C++.net (or whatever they're calling it this week) does let you mix native and managed objects directly.
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Afaik C++.net (or whatever they're calling it this week) does let you mix native and managed objects directly.
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The C# also allows you to create unmanaged objects. You just need to declare them in "unsafe" context blocks.
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I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
.jpg wrote:
Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
This seems to come up a few times a year, along with the "where are Microsoft's .NET applications?" or "Why isn't Microsoft rewriting Office in .NET?" Some apps I can think of off the top of my head which I use on a daily basis: Microsoft Windows Live Writer RssBandit Visual Studio (parts of it, at least) MSBuild Paint.NET Reflector Live Mesh Ants Profiler Cruise Control Yahoo Messenger If we're counting websites, heck, I'd say at least half the sites I visit use ASP.NET, including big ones like CodeProject, StackOverflow, MSDN,...
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.jpg wrote:
However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me.
I would say that .NET is good for some things but not good for others. I would certainly would not write game code in it or an image processing application where an image can be a GB or so. But then most business applications do not have these needs and that is what both java and .NET were designed for and excel at.
John
.NET is great for writing games. See XNA.
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.NET is great for writing games. See XNA.
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But there, if I understand things correctly, all it's used for is a layer around all the heavy lifting. In other words, all the cool graphics code (3D/2D/image processing) is written in the underlying DirectX layer, and that's almost certainly in C/C++.
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.jpg wrote:
Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
This seems to come up a few times a year, along with the "where are Microsoft's .NET applications?" or "Why isn't Microsoft rewriting Office in .NET?" Some apps I can think of off the top of my head which I use on a daily basis: Microsoft Windows Live Writer RssBandit Visual Studio (parts of it, at least) MSBuild Paint.NET Reflector Live Mesh Ants Profiler Cruise Control Yahoo Messenger If we're counting websites, heck, I'd say at least half the sites I visit use ASP.NET, including big ones like CodeProject, StackOverflow, MSDN,...
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Never heard about those. Are they big?
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Twoz a joke :)
Deliver yesterday, code today, think tomorrow. "http://www.heuse.com/cphumor.htm"
i know? i was not upset. i posted a joke orininally.
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Never heard about those. Are they big?
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Never heard about those. Are they big?
You answered yourself :)
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Depends on your definition of big, but I love RSS Bandit. :cool:
Cheers, Vıkram.
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You know - when I scanned that line, I read that you love A*se Bandit. I'm so glad that I reread it,
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I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
This kind of talk made sense 6 years ago but it's a done deal now. There are now *many* big apps that are .net based and doing very well. We have a very large app that is used globally and is one of the leading ones in it's industry and it's done very well by us and by our customers. Little technical issues such as you describe or the platform or technology used are perhaps of interest to programmers but of zero interest to the world at large and have exactly zero bearing on how successful an application is.
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But there, if I understand things correctly, all it's used for is a layer around all the heavy lifting. In other words, all the cool graphics code (3D/2D/image processing) is written in the underlying DirectX layer, and that's almost certainly in C/C++.
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Perhaps, I don't know, but it certainly makes sense since it's indisputable that development, time to market and time to make and release changes / updates is faster in .net than in a fully unmanaged language so XNA sounds like the best of both worlds which makes perfect sense.
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I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
How about the entire platform for one of the emergency services in a country? That big enough for you?
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Perhaps, I don't know, but it certainly makes sense since it's indisputable that development, time to market and time to make and release changes / updates is faster in .net than in a fully unmanaged language so XNA sounds like the best of both worlds which makes perfect sense.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
Absolutely, but I understood the question to be asking for examples of "big" apps, which I tend to understand as large, complex applications, like Photoshop, Illustrator, Maya, the DirectX implementation, Office, etc. And for most of those cases, .Net take up seems to be lukewarm at best.
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Never heard about those. Are they big?
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Never heard about those.
Yes, you have heard of them. You're using CodeProject right now, and I suspect you've at least heard of Visual Studio, if not Yahoo Messenger or Paint.NET.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Are they big?
Yes.
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But there, if I understand things correctly, all it's used for is a layer around all the heavy lifting. In other words, all the cool graphics code (3D/2D/image processing) is written in the underlying DirectX layer, and that's almost certainly in C/C++.
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The question was whether .NET is bad for games. It's great for games because of XNA. While it uses DirectX under the hood (as does WPF), it ain't a thin DX wrapper, if that's what you're getting at. Give it a spin and see for yourself.
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The question was whether .NET is bad for games. It's great for games because of XNA. While it uses DirectX under the hood (as does WPF), it ain't a thin DX wrapper, if that's what you're getting at. Give it a spin and see for yourself.
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Judah Himango wrote:
The question was whether .NET is bad for games.
Actually the original question was "I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?" So nothing about games. You mentioned it was great for games, which I'm sure it is, however that doesn't really address what I understood the OP's question to mean, which is what are examples of "big" apps, i.e. apps that are complex and computationally expensive, things like Maya, Photoshop, etc.
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Perhaps, I don't know, but it certainly makes sense since it's indisputable that development, time to market and time to make and release changes / updates is faster in .net than in a fully unmanaged language so XNA sounds like the best of both worlds which makes perfect sense.
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True but you're talking about game development, they all but invented the concept of premature optimization. As late as the mid 90's you could still find (smaller) games proudly advertising that they were written in 100% assembly for speed (as opposed to 99% C and just the hotloops) and it was the late 90's before c++ started to take off in the gamedev world. I predict major games won't start being written in managed code until after the rest of the software world is using The Next Big thing that allows for transparent scaling across out new 50,000 core PC. :rolleyes:
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Judah Himango wrote:
The question was whether .NET is bad for games.
Actually the original question was "I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?" So nothing about games. You mentioned it was great for games, which I'm sure it is, however that doesn't really address what I understood the OP's question to mean, which is what are examples of "big" apps, i.e. apps that are complex and computationally expensive, things like Maya, Photoshop, etc.
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When I said, "It's great for games", I wasn't replying to the original question; I was replying to someone who said .NET was bad for games. I wrote a separate post in reply to the original question about big .NET apps.
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