Is the .NET Framework a successful platform?
-
Perhaps, I don't know, but it certainly makes sense since it's indisputable that development, time to market and time to make and release changes / updates is faster in .net than in a fully unmanaged language so XNA sounds like the best of both worlds which makes perfect sense.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
Absolutely, but I understood the question to be asking for examples of "big" apps, which I tend to understand as large, complex applications, like Photoshop, Illustrator, Maya, the DirectX implementation, Office, etc. And for most of those cases, .Net take up seems to be lukewarm at best.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
-
Never heard about those. Are they big?
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Never heard about those.
Yes, you have heard of them. You're using CodeProject right now, and I suspect you've at least heard of Visual Studio, if not Yahoo Messenger or Paint.NET.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
Are they big?
Yes.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
-
But there, if I understand things correctly, all it's used for is a layer around all the heavy lifting. In other words, all the cool graphics code (3D/2D/image processing) is written in the underlying DirectX layer, and that's almost certainly in C/C++.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
The question was whether .NET is bad for games. It's great for games because of XNA. While it uses DirectX under the hood (as does WPF), it ain't a thin DX wrapper, if that's what you're getting at. Give it a spin and see for yourself.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
-
The question was whether .NET is bad for games. It's great for games because of XNA. While it uses DirectX under the hood (as does WPF), it ain't a thin DX wrapper, if that's what you're getting at. Give it a spin and see for yourself.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
The question was whether .NET is bad for games.
Actually the original question was "I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?" So nothing about games. You mentioned it was great for games, which I'm sure it is, however that doesn't really address what I understood the OP's question to mean, which is what are examples of "big" apps, i.e. apps that are complex and computationally expensive, things like Maya, Photoshop, etc.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
-
Perhaps, I don't know, but it certainly makes sense since it's indisputable that development, time to market and time to make and release changes / updates is faster in .net than in a fully unmanaged language so XNA sounds like the best of both worlds which makes perfect sense.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
True but you're talking about game development, they all but invented the concept of premature optimization. As late as the mid 90's you could still find (smaller) games proudly advertising that they were written in 100% assembly for speed (as opposed to 99% C and just the hotloops) and it was the late 90's before c++ started to take off in the gamedev world. I predict major games won't start being written in managed code until after the rest of the software world is using The Next Big thing that allows for transparent scaling across out new 50,000 core PC. :rolleyes:
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
-
Judah Himango wrote:
The question was whether .NET is bad for games.
Actually the original question was "I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?" So nothing about games. You mentioned it was great for games, which I'm sure it is, however that doesn't really address what I understood the OP's question to mean, which is what are examples of "big" apps, i.e. apps that are complex and computationally expensive, things like Maya, Photoshop, etc.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog
When I said, "It's great for games", I wasn't replying to the original question; I was replying to someone who said .NET was bad for games. I wrote a separate post in reply to the original question about big .NET apps.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Feelings-Based Morality of the Secular World The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
-
.jpg wrote:
However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me.
I would say that .NET is good for some things but not good for others. I would certainly would not write game code in it or an image processing application where an image can be a GB or so. But then most business applications do not have these needs and that is what both java and .NET were designed for and excel at.
John
We've rewritten our 3D view and markup[^] application in .NET 2.0. It's in final testing and should be out very soon. .NET adds about 20-30mb to the initial memory foot print over the previous C++ version due to a VS like UI with dockable panels, toolbars with ribbon suppport, larger icons, etc. Other than that memory isn't an issue. We use our own containers that deal with memory management efficiently for the 3D objects. There's no reason an image processing application written in .NET couldnt perform "as good" as one written in C++ with regards to memory.
Todd Smith
-
We've rewritten our 3D view and markup[^] application in .NET 2.0. It's in final testing and should be out very soon. .NET adds about 20-30mb to the initial memory foot print over the previous C++ version due to a VS like UI with dockable panels, toolbars with ribbon suppport, larger icons, etc. Other than that memory isn't an issue. We use our own containers that deal with memory management efficiently for the 3D objects. There's no reason an image processing application written in .NET couldnt perform "as good" as one written in C++ with regards to memory.
Todd Smith
BTW isnt the london stock exchange now running on MS Windows and .NET?
Todd Smith
-
I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
SharePoint. It's huge and it is very widely used. It is essentially just an ASP.NET application. You could write something similar given enough resources and motivation. You should try it. :)
Idaho Edokpayi
-
.jpg wrote:
Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
Yes. CodeProject.com
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
-
I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
-
BTW isnt the london stock exchange now running on MS Windows and .NET?
Todd Smith
spot on, and the Johannesburg Stock Exchange in South Africa following suit
-
I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
-
This kind of talk made sense 6 years ago but it's a done deal now. There are now *many* big apps that are .net based and doing very well. We have a very large app that is used globally and is one of the leading ones in it's industry and it's done very well by us and by our customers. Little technical issues such as you describe or the platform or technology used are perhaps of interest to programmers but of zero interest to the world at large and have exactly zero bearing on how successful an application is.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
John C wrote:
This kind of talk made sense 6 years ago but it's a done deal now.
Exactly. Even me found the time to learn parts of the large platform! I was one of those not interested in .net and finally found out it was because I was able to quickly code in what I knew but it took long to learn and code in .net. Fortunately I found some free time(it actually took months) and worked hard to learn both web based programming in asp.net and some basic C# skills. I feel much better now. However probably C# will be replaced by something new quickly, but I learned that in order to make a transition easier I shall start from day one when a good technology is being introduced. I remember I had discussions here and one of them, if I remember correctly, was with you who pushed me to learn it. Thank you. :)
"In the end it's a little boy expressing himself." Yanni
-
I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
Neverwinter Nights 2 module creator is on .NET (and C# actually). It's a quite complex application, with a lot of graphics and 3D stuff.
-
I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
.jpg wrote:
Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
Paint.NET Wink RSS Bandit Axosoft's OnTime Red Sql Packager (and the other programs of the suite to manage Sql Server) Apex Sql Doc (and the other programs of the suite to manage Sql Server) BiitSoft CMS Encore Idera Sql Permissions and (I wouldn't bet more than a dime, though) I remember to have seen "suspicious" *.manifets files in a PowerQuest Partition Magic installation and, above all of them, all the programs I write:cool:
Marco Turrini
-
I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
-
I love the C# language and the .NET BCL is very well written and clean. However, not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me. Besides, anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
Sure. The company i am currently working for is releasing a fairly large project this month written in C# running on .NET 3.0.
modified on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:54 AM
-
.jpg wrote:
not having deterministic deallocation is a big downside for me.
Why? (BTW, C++/CLI has deterministic finalization.)
.jpg wrote:
anyone know of any big app written in .NET?
.NET is used heavily in industry, so I assume you mean productised apps? You will find that a lot of Microsoft's newer applications are written substantially in .NET. BizTalk is a large application written in 100% C# apparently.
Kevin
-
Daniel Grunwald wrote:
Deterministic destruction (C++ destructors) are easily replicated with the disposable pattern.
Except that it is the burden on the user of a class to actually use
usingblocks.Daniel Grunwald wrote:
But immediately making released memory available for new allocations is a waste of time, releasing whole blocks of memory is more efficient.
Not really - GC needs to determine which blocks can be released and which not. Worse, usage of non-deterministic GC increases the memory footprint which leads to page faults. In spite of all the papers about GC improving performance, I have yet to find a really performant language with GC.