Professional freelancing advice needed
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Drew Stainton wrote:
Finally, I think changing your user name to your company name here is a big mistake.
Maybe he's Phil Spector, and he's trying to disguise this but not in a very clever way.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
changed the font size and your layout degraded instantly. If you're pushing yourself as a professional web company, then your website needs to be rock solid and not fall over on such basic areas. If you can't get it right on your site, how's a client to expect that you'll get it right at their site?
Unfortunately that is a tradeoff I made... I favour standards and table-less design over archaic tables, especially for layout. Tables have a semantic meaning and that is to represent data. I also favour fixed width over fluid layouts because the layout stays the same across the board, regardless of resolution. Using fixed XHTML/CSS layouts will cause some minor issues when someone resizes the text although it's not so bad that it becomes unreadable it's just not aesthetically appealing.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Looking at your site, one of the key things that strikes me is that you've given no thought as to how your site will place in search engines. You may want to consider taking a look at SEO techniques and figuring out what your site should focus on - and if you get the chance, get somebody in to write your copy. You will suck at it, and a professional will shine; it's nothing to be ashamed of because it's not what you are there to do. Marketing is a tough job to do, and while I'll sometimes poke fun at it I do respect it.
That is something that needs work, yes.
Blog Entry: 7 Software development best practices to make you more effective and productive PCSpectra :: Professional, Affordable PHP Programming, Web Development and Documentation
You can design XHTML/CSS pages to scale gracefully with font size changes without compromising the intended look at the "normal" font size fairly easily. I've had to do much more complex layouts than the one you have with XHTML/CSS and ensure they scale well. It would only take a few tweaks on your site to do the same.
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I have had a web site under the name PCSpectra (either .ca or .com) for almost ten years but I really only ever used it as a place to host source code, ideas and remotely store files of importance and backups. A couple of months ago I decided to put some serious effort into it and promote my services through my web site and not just some random PHP developer guy. I've been linking back to my site from various places (mostly forums and programming communities, Linux, Web design, etc) and I'm getting only about 50 unique hits a day. Sadly none of my online marketing efforts have transpired into any lead or contact, etc. What I do get a lot of is bogus emails coming in through my contact form, of people telling me how much my blog sucks or how much my site sucks, etc... X| :laugh: Some comments are actually funny. :) Unfortunately none have made me any money. I am gradually changing all my forum aliases to PCSpectra from Hockey and linking to my site from my sig and promoting my blog on other related blogs. It's all quite a lot of work when all you want to do is develop software. :P For the last year or so I've been developing a newsletter/email marketing software package to compete with the big guns and now I need extra cash to pay for the hosting and advertising fees, hence the serious effort in promoting my web site/business -- if you can call it that. :) So my question is, clearly I'm advertising in the wrong places, probably mostly developers or other tech savvy people viewing my site and borrowing ideas or trying to hack it. I have joined a few business networks like Ryze and tried promoting my services there as well with little or no success and yet I see others who do the same thing, with no web site (or one of poor quality, in terms of design, layout and validation, etc) and they apparently do find busiess on these sites. It's frustrating to say the least. What I would like to ask the CP community, especially those who have any experience doing freelance/contract work on a full time scale (something I've never been able to do -- simply cause I couldn't find enough business) can you please look at my site, tell me what you think and more importantly tell me how I can improve what I already have. More content? More blog entries? Where and/or how can I find leads? My webiste: PCSpectra p.s-Please do not recommend those PHP freelancing web sites. I am aware of them and despise them.
PCSpectra wrote:
What I would like to ask the CP community, especially those who have any experience doing freelance/contract work on a full time scale (something I've never been able to do -- simply cause I couldn't find enough business) can you please look at my site, tell me what you think and more importantly tell me how I can improve what I already have.
Yes I can, the number on overarching piece of advice that trumps anything else you might get is this (and I mean this in the nicest possible way and in all sincerity, I'm not just trying to yank your chain): ditch the freelance and write software you can write *once* and sell over and over ad-infinitum to the general public. Freelance programming is a suckers game, always has been always will be.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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Hahahaha...I wonder if thats legit... :) I'm not there yet thank god
Blog Entry: 7 Software development best practices to make you more effective and productive PCSpectra :: Professional, Affordable PHP Programming, Web Development and Documentation
I'm generally just a lurker and information gatherer on most forums I visit but when I feel like I can offer 2 cents I do. I have been a freelance developer for just under 2 years now. Before that I worked at a couple of different software shops that gave me some good experience and insight into sounds development practices, etc. I have been a "professional" developer for almost 7 years now. I have always had a passion for this line of work and I started with BASIC when I was around 13. In my 2 years now as a freelancer, I have never once had to advertise, have my own website, or even purchase business cards for that matter (the few I have I got for free, I may need to buy some eventually when these run out). What has worked for me and like many others here have mentioned, is simple word of mouth networking. One of the best things I have done, is to get in contact with other freelancers (conferences, local coffee shop, etc) and form relationships with them. This has led me to plenty of work. In fact, much of the work I get comes from work that my other freelance contacts just can't fit in so they recommend the client call me or give me the client's contact info on their behalf. Other work has come from satisfied clients recommending me to their other business-owning friends, etc. The bottom line is, this has worked and is working great for me (your results will vary ;) ). I have a small client base that usually comes back for more and a few good freelance contacts to share work with. Business is solid, I make my own hours, I please my clients, I please my wife, I play with my son. Life is great! In summary, if there were 3 strong points I could make that make all the difference: 1) Relationships 2) Relationships 3) Relationships
~ballistikx
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PCSpectra wrote:
What I would like to ask the CP community, especially those who have any experience doing freelance/contract work on a full time scale (something I've never been able to do -- simply cause I couldn't find enough business) can you please look at my site, tell me what you think and more importantly tell me how I can improve what I already have.
Yes I can, the number on overarching piece of advice that trumps anything else you might get is this (and I mean this in the nicest possible way and in all sincerity, I'm not just trying to yank your chain): ditch the freelance and write software you can write *once* and sell over and over ad-infinitum to the general public. Freelance programming is a suckers game, always has been always will be.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
John C wrote:
Freelance programming is a suckers game, always has been always will be.
You're entitled to that view... and I agree that writing a commercially viable product is a great idea. But in the meantime, you have to earn a living. And writing your dream app in your underwear doesn't pay the bills. See my post above for my freelance experience, it has been anything but a "suckers game".
~ballistikx
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John C wrote:
Freelance programming is a suckers game, always has been always will be.
You're entitled to that view... and I agree that writing a commercially viable product is a great idea. But in the meantime, you have to earn a living. And writing your dream app in your underwear doesn't pay the bills. See my post above for my freelance experience, it has been anything but a "suckers game".
~ballistikx
I think you've missed John's point. What I think he is saying in his own peculiar vernacular is that freelancing on its own is a good way to make some money, but you'll never be filthy rich from doing so, and here's the reason. Let's say that you can work X number of hours per day, for all 7 days per week, at Y dollars per hour. Therefore, the most you can ever make per week is 7 * X * Y. Now X can only be increased to a maximum of 24 (and I would hazard a guess that you would find it nigh impossible to continue to work 24 hours per day for any length of time). Y can only be increased to what the market values development at. However, if you had a product sitting on the shelf waiting to be sold, you could be raking in far more than your hourly rate times the number of hours. That being said, it's the same with hiring sub-contractors and/or staff - if you make a portion on top of what you pay them, you can make as much money (if not more) by simply managing their contracts and finding new contracts for them, without having to actually expend development effort yourself.
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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I think you've missed John's point. What I think he is saying in his own peculiar vernacular is that freelancing on its own is a good way to make some money, but you'll never be filthy rich from doing so, and here's the reason. Let's say that you can work X number of hours per day, for all 7 days per week, at Y dollars per hour. Therefore, the most you can ever make per week is 7 * X * Y. Now X can only be increased to a maximum of 24 (and I would hazard a guess that you would find it nigh impossible to continue to work 24 hours per day for any length of time). Y can only be increased to what the market values development at. However, if you had a product sitting on the shelf waiting to be sold, you could be raking in far more than your hourly rate times the number of hours. That being said, it's the same with hiring sub-contractors and/or staff - if you make a portion on top of what you pay them, you can make as much money (if not more) by simply managing their contracts and finding new contracts for them, without having to actually expend development effort yourself.
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
You left out the many other negative points besides it not being very lucrative (in fact if you factor the hours worked it's seldom better than any other run of the mill job, but that's far from the worst part of freelancing), ultimately, if you're successful at it, it adds up to a hell of a lot of stress, a hell of a lot of work, innumerable people all dependant on you which feels good at first and comes to suck away your soul in no time at all. Endless meetings and goal post moving and debating what's covered or not in contracts blah blah blah. In short your own personal little hellscape. Anyone who is successful at it and isn't merely farming out the work but doing it themselves and claims they don't feel a tiny urge to slit their wrist after a few years of it is a liar. There are endless other, far better, ways to make ends meet while writing and learning how to market a killer application you can turn into a decent life in less than a decade with very little stress, as much time off as you can afford to take (in my case 6 months a year) and pretty much all the worldy posessions you desire depending upon how hard you really want to work at it.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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I think you've missed John's point. What I think he is saying in his own peculiar vernacular is that freelancing on its own is a good way to make some money, but you'll never be filthy rich from doing so, and here's the reason. Let's say that you can work X number of hours per day, for all 7 days per week, at Y dollars per hour. Therefore, the most you can ever make per week is 7 * X * Y. Now X can only be increased to a maximum of 24 (and I would hazard a guess that you would find it nigh impossible to continue to work 24 hours per day for any length of time). Y can only be increased to what the market values development at. However, if you had a product sitting on the shelf waiting to be sold, you could be raking in far more than your hourly rate times the number of hours. That being said, it's the same with hiring sub-contractors and/or staff - if you make a portion on top of what you pay them, you can make as much money (if not more) by simply managing their contracts and finding new contracts for them, without having to actually expend development effort yourself.
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
Well of course you can only make so much as the hours you can humanly work. There is always the possibility of expanding and sub'ing work out to others which like you said makes your earning potential that much greater. But I think the conversation here is more about the enjoyment of ones work than it is about the potential for riches. That being said, I do have a commercial app in the works. Any unallocated hours I can squeeze in go towards that project. The current money-makers come first. :-D
~ballistikx
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John C wrote:
Freelance programming is a suckers game, always has been always will be.
You're entitled to that view... and I agree that writing a commercially viable product is a great idea. But in the meantime, you have to earn a living. And writing your dream app in your underwear doesn't pay the bills. See my post above for my freelance experience, it has been anything but a "suckers game".
~ballistikx
See my reply to Damian two posts down and tell me again how blissful it all is when you've been doing it for more than two years. Suckers game is the very mildest way I can put it on this particular forum. :)
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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See my reply to Damian two posts down and tell me again how blissful it all is when you've been doing it for more than two years. Suckers game is the very mildest way I can put it on this particular forum. :)
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
Everyone has their opinion. I'll let you know if mine changes. It may very well one day. But for now, it sure beats the pants off of working for the man. I would rather work 60 hours a week for myself than 60 hours in a run-of-the-mill-nobody-cares-about-their-job-that-i-only-get-paid-for-40-hours-anyway situation.
~ballistikx
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Everyone has their opinion. I'll let you know if mine changes. It may very well one day. But for now, it sure beats the pants off of working for the man. I would rather work 60 hours a week for myself than 60 hours in a run-of-the-mill-nobody-cares-about-their-job-that-i-only-get-paid-for-40-hours-anyway situation.
~ballistikx
Yeah that is a nice feeling, I remember the first stirrings of it very well when I first started freelancing back in the day. Get that program finished and spend a *lot* more time learning about marketing software online (far more important than just about anything else including having absolutely perfect software out of the gate) and be prepared for a few years of more work for a *lot* more rewarding feeling, time off and money down the road. :)
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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Everyone has their opinion. I'll let you know if mine changes. It may very well one day. But for now, it sure beats the pants off of working for the man. I would rather work 60 hours a week for myself than 60 hours in a run-of-the-mill-nobody-cares-about-their-job-that-i-only-get-paid-for-40-hours-anyway situation.
~ballistikx
ballistikx wrote:
rather work 60 hours a week for myself than 60 hours in a run-of-the-mill-nobody-cares-about-their-job-that-i-only-get-paid-for-40-hours-anyway
That's the one upshot... being paid for all the hours you work... You get very mercenary in your old age... The downside is that (for me at least), it doesn't matter how much of a buffer you build up or how much work you have on, you are always worried about where your next lot of work is going to come from... (I've had my company for 6.5 years now.)
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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You left out the many other negative points besides it not being very lucrative (in fact if you factor the hours worked it's seldom better than any other run of the mill job, but that's far from the worst part of freelancing), ultimately, if you're successful at it, it adds up to a hell of a lot of stress, a hell of a lot of work, innumerable people all dependant on you which feels good at first and comes to suck away your soul in no time at all. Endless meetings and goal post moving and debating what's covered or not in contracts blah blah blah. In short your own personal little hellscape. Anyone who is successful at it and isn't merely farming out the work but doing it themselves and claims they don't feel a tiny urge to slit their wrist after a few years of it is a liar. There are endless other, far better, ways to make ends meet while writing and learning how to market a killer application you can turn into a decent life in less than a decade with very little stress, as much time off as you can afford to take (in my case 6 months a year) and pretty much all the worldy posessions you desire depending upon how hard you really want to work at it.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
Yeah, gotta agree with a lot of what you have said here... And that urge isn't so tiny at times... ;)
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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Yeah that is a nice feeling, I remember the first stirrings of it very well when I first started freelancing back in the day. Get that program finished and spend a *lot* more time learning about marketing software online (far more important than just about anything else including having absolutely perfect software out of the gate) and be prepared for a few years of more work for a *lot* more rewarding feeling, time off and money down the road. :)
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
How did you choose your (commercial) software that you wrote? Was it a conscious decision, or did you just kind of stumble onto it?
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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You can design XHTML/CSS pages to scale gracefully with font size changes without compromising the intended look at the "normal" font size fairly easily. I've had to do much more complex layouts than the one you have with XHTML/CSS and ensure they scale well. It would only take a few tweaks on your site to do the same.
By all means show me these few tweaks cause the fellow's at the site I visited surely didn't...when I asked them to review my site. :) I'm not sure what browsers you guys are using but FF3 rendered the page almost flawlessy, except for the fact that the gutter borders are mis-aligned and a little more obvious when the images are scaled. Everything else (when enlarging anyways) aligned up fine. IE7 has a little quirky behavior...but that is no surprise as it's standards complaince has never been ideal. I tried it Google Chrome which uses the WebKit (as does Safari) and it's rendering engine does not play nice with fixed width/height designs. That was a design choice I made -- similar results can be expected in IE6 I believe. The problem with those engines, is they don't scale images and the two horizontal menu bars are fixed height images and the silver gradient menubar, if I did make it scale (the DIV or UL) the gradient would look nasty buckled underneath itself. As for the light blue semi-translucent menu bar that has the "Web development", etc...that could be a DIV with a PNG background (requires a hack for IE6) or it could be DIV that uses the alpha blend. So what solution would you propose?
Blog Entry: 7 Software development best practices to make you more effective and productive PCSpectra :: Professional, Affordable PHP Programming, Web Development and Documentation
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I have had a web site under the name PCSpectra (either .ca or .com) for almost ten years but I really only ever used it as a place to host source code, ideas and remotely store files of importance and backups. A couple of months ago I decided to put some serious effort into it and promote my services through my web site and not just some random PHP developer guy. I've been linking back to my site from various places (mostly forums and programming communities, Linux, Web design, etc) and I'm getting only about 50 unique hits a day. Sadly none of my online marketing efforts have transpired into any lead or contact, etc. What I do get a lot of is bogus emails coming in through my contact form, of people telling me how much my blog sucks or how much my site sucks, etc... X| :laugh: Some comments are actually funny. :) Unfortunately none have made me any money. I am gradually changing all my forum aliases to PCSpectra from Hockey and linking to my site from my sig and promoting my blog on other related blogs. It's all quite a lot of work when all you want to do is develop software. :P For the last year or so I've been developing a newsletter/email marketing software package to compete with the big guns and now I need extra cash to pay for the hosting and advertising fees, hence the serious effort in promoting my web site/business -- if you can call it that. :) So my question is, clearly I'm advertising in the wrong places, probably mostly developers or other tech savvy people viewing my site and borrowing ideas or trying to hack it. I have joined a few business networks like Ryze and tried promoting my services there as well with little or no success and yet I see others who do the same thing, with no web site (or one of poor quality, in terms of design, layout and validation, etc) and they apparently do find busiess on these sites. It's frustrating to say the least. What I would like to ask the CP community, especially those who have any experience doing freelance/contract work on a full time scale (something I've never been able to do -- simply cause I couldn't find enough business) can you please look at my site, tell me what you think and more importantly tell me how I can improve what I already have. More content? More blog entries? Where and/or how can I find leads? My webiste: PCSpectra p.s-Please do not recommend those PHP freelancing web sites. I am aware of them and despise them.
Hi PCSpectra, I saw your website. It is a website designed for users to get help in developing php websites. I am a freelance website developer. I can foffer you advice and develop the website. Please send me details of what you want and the amount of money you can pay for me for that. My email address is rajeshvi)@yahoo.co.in V RAJESH
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
It reads like a B3 page (and for those who don't know what B3 is, it means bullsh*t Baffles Brains).
Requesting permission to use this quote in my signature. :-D
Permission granted.
Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
That's why I suggested you need to get face to face with potential customers so you can sound them out on what their problems are. At the very least, it could save you from wasting your funds on ineffective marketing.
That is essentially what I did when I handed the informaiton kits out directly...admittedly I had a few warm responses but ultimately no one called back. :( Follow up calls seem so "forward" almost spammish. :P
Blog Entry: 7 Software development best practices to make you more effective and productive PCSpectra :: Professional, Affordable PHP Programming, Web Development and Documentation
PCSpectra wrote:
That is essentially what I did when I handed the informaiton kits out directly...admittedly I had a few warm responses but ultimately no one called back.
At the time, were you able to learn anything about the sort of problems and pain points those potential clients had? That's the starting point, really.
PCSpectra wrote:
Follow up calls seem so "forward" almost spammish.
Unfortunately you'll have to get over that. Sales are part of the game, and without them you won't gain any customers unless you can find a niche where your product or service can sell itself. One very important thing to learn is that as a small business owner you now have to come to terms with the fact that marketing, sales and customer support are just as important as development. It's a tough lesson to learn for a developer, believe me.
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
My suggestion would be to join Business Link
I second that. Joining a local Chamber of Commerce or something like that is helpful.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
Totally agree. My web site has attracted one client in total in the entire time its been up (about 4 years). But it has been incredibly useful to direct a quick contact to from a chance meeting at some networking event. From that I have had many of those people contact me once they've had a chance to read what I do (something I would never be able to get clear to them in a 2 minute conversation). From those contacts I have turned quite a number into clients. HTH
The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.
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I have had a web site under the name PCSpectra (either .ca or .com) for almost ten years but I really only ever used it as a place to host source code, ideas and remotely store files of importance and backups. A couple of months ago I decided to put some serious effort into it and promote my services through my web site and not just some random PHP developer guy. I've been linking back to my site from various places (mostly forums and programming communities, Linux, Web design, etc) and I'm getting only about 50 unique hits a day. Sadly none of my online marketing efforts have transpired into any lead or contact, etc. What I do get a lot of is bogus emails coming in through my contact form, of people telling me how much my blog sucks or how much my site sucks, etc... X| :laugh: Some comments are actually funny. :) Unfortunately none have made me any money. I am gradually changing all my forum aliases to PCSpectra from Hockey and linking to my site from my sig and promoting my blog on other related blogs. It's all quite a lot of work when all you want to do is develop software. :P For the last year or so I've been developing a newsletter/email marketing software package to compete with the big guns and now I need extra cash to pay for the hosting and advertising fees, hence the serious effort in promoting my web site/business -- if you can call it that. :) So my question is, clearly I'm advertising in the wrong places, probably mostly developers or other tech savvy people viewing my site and borrowing ideas or trying to hack it. I have joined a few business networks like Ryze and tried promoting my services there as well with little or no success and yet I see others who do the same thing, with no web site (or one of poor quality, in terms of design, layout and validation, etc) and they apparently do find busiess on these sites. It's frustrating to say the least. What I would like to ask the CP community, especially those who have any experience doing freelance/contract work on a full time scale (something I've never been able to do -- simply cause I couldn't find enough business) can you please look at my site, tell me what you think and more importantly tell me how I can improve what I already have. More content? More blog entries? Where and/or how can I find leads? My webiste: PCSpectra p.s-Please do not recommend those PHP freelancing web sites. I am aware of them and despise them.
I do not normally respond to blogs since they take time both to read and write. And, this is the main issue -- time and energy and how we should expend both. However, your title caught my eye, and except for Anna's advice, and one or two others, most of the responses are not very helpful. You are really changing your career from a programmming to small business owner. You want to run, manage, and handle clients. You need to advertise, keep books, market, solicit business, become known, etc. Once you have done this, your work should make your customers happy. They will tell their friends and competitors and suppliers, who will then come to you for more work and the cycles will support your business. The trouble is, it takes a lot of hard work and effort to get from where you are to where you want to go. YOu have to create all of this business. This takes time and energy. The web is not a magic sales place. it does not create new businesses without a lot of work and effort. Join local business groups. Offer to put on seminars, talk, talk, talk. Become known. Make your name rememberable. Place ads in places where the buinesses you desire hang out. Not where developers live! Who are you marketing too? Your web site really reads as though you are marketing to other techies. The world, much to our surprise, does not know what PHP is. The world has no idea about Content Management Systems, much less CMS. YOu need to go to where your customers live so you need to decide who your customers are. You have some area of expertise. Who uses it? What industry, or group of businessme? You cannot market to the entire world, so narrow you customer base, at least to start. Go to them. You mentioned sitepoint - thye use to sell a kit on marketing yourself as an independent web developer. Buy something like this and read it and then do it. Also change your web -- at least the moe page. The business world does not know php or cms from adam. YOu need to sell concepts and yourself and why you are different from anyone else. Go out on the web and browse sites of those who would be your competition and then create a website that is better than their. The web will not support a new business becasue the web is to broad and unfocused. You need to create the local interest, direct them to your web for more info and then sell them. Make your web a sales force, not an information location. Make it personal about you. Whoever made the comments about corporate and shining versus small and local hit the nail right on the head. Your si