Thinking in English?
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This thread was inspired by the other language thread a few threads below. Now most educated Indians would have had all their education in English. Now this results in a very curious situation. They begin to think in English. Perhaps not all of them do this to a complete extent. Some people possibly think using a mix - part native tongue and part English. But those people, who also read English books, watch English movies etc. get further and further pushed into English. Take me for example. I am very fluent in Malayalam. But I don't think in Malayalam. When we think, we basically use words, though at a very abstract level. And I use English. It's not even a conscious act. In fact I have made an attempt to think in Malayalam, but it ended up in a useless mental soliloquy which was probably worse that the cries of a rather stupid gorilla. Or take something that’s so primarily linked with language – swearing. If I am asleep and someone empties a glass of water on me, the first words I’d say when I wake up would probably be something similar to, “What the fuck!” or even worse. Malayalam has a very good list of swear words and I am aware of them all. Yet my natural instincts are to use English. Now I do not know whether this is a bad thing or not. For someone like me who tries to think on a global scale rather than on a country-wise scale, it’s not much of an issue. But most other people are very racist with regard to their country. They wrongly call this patriotism. Of course that topic is one on which I have rather strong thoughts, but it would be out of place in this thread. Anyhow I doubt that many of you would empathize my thoughts on this, because you guys speak and think your native tongue – English. You wouldn’t understand what it is to be more comfortable in a foreign language than you are in your native tongue. Anyhow I don’t mind at all to be really honest. English is a damn cool language. And nothing beats English literature. Just think of all those cool authors out there – Asimov, Wodehouse, Clarke, Agatha Christie, Nish – oops – that’s a bit of South Indian modesty for ya ;-) Regards, Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Well Nish, I would not be completely agree or disagree. English is really easy to learn compare to other language but I think the "cooler" language to speak is Spanish. My first language is French and I must say that I think more in French before English except for programming. I think as developer, we (who speak more than one language) tend to think more in English when it is about reasoning (I could be wrong) but we seem to use our native language for simple things (or when we are mad). Like, using our native language to count (because it seems easier) or express our feelings. As far as literature, French is pretty good (also in poetry).
VOTD: 16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" - 2 Tim 3:16-17 (NIV)
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Well Nish, I would not be completely agree or disagree. English is really easy to learn compare to other language but I think the "cooler" language to speak is Spanish. My first language is French and I must say that I think more in French before English except for programming. I think as developer, we (who speak more than one language) tend to think more in English when it is about reasoning (I could be wrong) but we seem to use our native language for simple things (or when we are mad). Like, using our native language to count (because it seems easier) or express our feelings. As far as literature, French is pretty good (also in poetry).
VOTD: 16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" - 2 Tim 3:16-17 (NIV)
Ernest Laurentin wrote: Like, using our native language to count Ouch!!! I doubt that there are even 10% of malayalee coders who can count upto 1000 in malayalam. One curious thing about malayalam is that, the malayalam for 90 is completely different from the malayalam for 60,70,80 etc... The malayalam for 90 continues 700,800... This results in comic situations because people mistake 90 for 900. :-) Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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Ernest Laurentin wrote: Like, using our native language to count Ouch!!! I doubt that there are even 10% of malayalee coders who can count upto 1000 in malayalam. One curious thing about malayalam is that, the malayalam for 90 is completely different from the malayalam for 60,70,80 etc... The malayalam for 90 continues 700,800... This results in comic situations because people mistake 90 for 900. :-) Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Nishant S wrote: This results in comic situations because people mistake 90 for 900. Would they mistake 90 Rupee(s) for 900 Rupee(s)? :-O
VOTD: 16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work" - 2 Tim 3:16-17 (NIV)
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Ernest Laurentin wrote: Like, using our native language to count Ouch!!! I doubt that there are even 10% of malayalee coders who can count upto 1000 in malayalam. One curious thing about malayalam is that, the malayalam for 90 is completely different from the malayalam for 60,70,80 etc... The malayalam for 90 continues 700,800... This results in comic situations because people mistake 90 for 900. :-) Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Nishant S wrote: One curious thing about malayalam is that, the malayalam for 90 is completely different from the malayalam for 60,70,80 etc.. Thank god there is someone out there who has the same problem, i for one could never figure out if my parents were talking in the hundreds or thousands :-D:-D:-D:-D About the thinking part, I think primarily in English with a bit of Hindi mixed in...but for really serious thinking i have to do it in English. May the Source be with you Sonork ID 100.9997 sijinjoseph
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This thread was inspired by the other language thread a few threads below. Now most educated Indians would have had all their education in English. Now this results in a very curious situation. They begin to think in English. Perhaps not all of them do this to a complete extent. Some people possibly think using a mix - part native tongue and part English. But those people, who also read English books, watch English movies etc. get further and further pushed into English. Take me for example. I am very fluent in Malayalam. But I don't think in Malayalam. When we think, we basically use words, though at a very abstract level. And I use English. It's not even a conscious act. In fact I have made an attempt to think in Malayalam, but it ended up in a useless mental soliloquy which was probably worse that the cries of a rather stupid gorilla. Or take something that’s so primarily linked with language – swearing. If I am asleep and someone empties a glass of water on me, the first words I’d say when I wake up would probably be something similar to, “What the fuck!” or even worse. Malayalam has a very good list of swear words and I am aware of them all. Yet my natural instincts are to use English. Now I do not know whether this is a bad thing or not. For someone like me who tries to think on a global scale rather than on a country-wise scale, it’s not much of an issue. But most other people are very racist with regard to their country. They wrongly call this patriotism. Of course that topic is one on which I have rather strong thoughts, but it would be out of place in this thread. Anyhow I doubt that many of you would empathize my thoughts on this, because you guys speak and think your native tongue – English. You wouldn’t understand what it is to be more comfortable in a foreign language than you are in your native tongue. Anyhow I don’t mind at all to be really honest. English is a damn cool language. And nothing beats English literature. Just think of all those cool authors out there – Asimov, Wodehouse, Clarke, Agatha Christie, Nish – oops – that’s a bit of South Indian modesty for ya ;-) Regards, Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
I can relate. My native language is Russian, I've studied French for about 15 years and now I am living in US for the past 10 years. I mostly think in English now. I have a few friends who I can speak Russian to, but everyone else at work and at home speak English only. Every time I speak to someone who does not speak English I find it difficult to switch and I am often finding myself searching for the correct words in Russian. Which is very strange and very sad. I love Russian language and I am afraid that I am slowly loosing it. However, I still can think in Russian when I want to. The switch between thinking in different languages is difficult, but once I am over the initial confusion I can think in either language. There is something that I am noticing though, which clearly relates to what you've mentioned: "when we think, we basically use words". Thinking in different languages is not the same. On some basic level things seem to be the same. But once you try to get to more complex levels of thinking (very abstract ideas or even thinking about some software solutions) you find that the language you use have a lot of influence on how you think. There are some concepts and ideas that one unlikely to think about while thinking in English and there are others that would never come to me if I was to think about them in Russian. I would love to give you some examples, but nothing comes to mind at the moment. Maybe I should try to think of examples in Russian... :) Anyway, I find this very interesting. Unfortunately it is very difficult to explain. I was trying to look into this some time ago to see if I can find any kind of information/articles/books on the subject, but I did not find much of anything. I guess, not many people (if any) research stuff like that because it is not very common situation for people to think in more than one language...
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Nishant S wrote: One curious thing about malayalam is that, the malayalam for 90 is completely different from the malayalam for 60,70,80 etc.. Thank god there is someone out there who has the same problem, i for one could never figure out if my parents were talking in the hundreds or thousands :-D:-D:-D:-D About the thinking part, I think primarily in English with a bit of Hindi mixed in...but for really serious thinking i have to do it in English. May the Source be with you Sonork ID 100.9997 sijinjoseph
Sijin wrote: Thank god there is someone out there who has the same problem, i for one could never figure out if my parents were talking in the hundreds or thousands LOL You too eh? :-) Till I was about 17 I never could tell either. Nish :-D
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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I can relate. My native language is Russian, I've studied French for about 15 years and now I am living in US for the past 10 years. I mostly think in English now. I have a few friends who I can speak Russian to, but everyone else at work and at home speak English only. Every time I speak to someone who does not speak English I find it difficult to switch and I am often finding myself searching for the correct words in Russian. Which is very strange and very sad. I love Russian language and I am afraid that I am slowly loosing it. However, I still can think in Russian when I want to. The switch between thinking in different languages is difficult, but once I am over the initial confusion I can think in either language. There is something that I am noticing though, which clearly relates to what you've mentioned: "when we think, we basically use words". Thinking in different languages is not the same. On some basic level things seem to be the same. But once you try to get to more complex levels of thinking (very abstract ideas or even thinking about some software solutions) you find that the language you use have a lot of influence on how you think. There are some concepts and ideas that one unlikely to think about while thinking in English and there are others that would never come to me if I was to think about them in Russian. I would love to give you some examples, but nothing comes to mind at the moment. Maybe I should try to think of examples in Russian... :) Anyway, I find this very interesting. Unfortunately it is very difficult to explain. I was trying to look into this some time ago to see if I can find any kind of information/articles/books on the subject, but I did not find much of anything. I guess, not many people (if any) research stuff like that because it is not very common situation for people to think in more than one language...
Speaking other languages is one thing but what ... I find extremly difficult ... is being in a situation where I must translate for people from one to another. I get utterly confused ... and start replying everything back in the wrong language. When Gorbachev was leader of the USSR he had a translator/interpreter that would travel with him, who was 'amazing to watch' as Gorbachev spoke Russian, the guy would be speaking English simulataneously, and vice versa. Ouch ! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Sijin wrote: Thank god there is someone out there who has the same problem, i for one could never figure out if my parents were talking in the hundreds or thousands LOL You too eh? :-) Till I was about 17 I never could tell either. Nish :-D
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Actually as a small kid I use to get confused at how adults talked about thirteen hundred and thirteen thousand because it seemed so silly. Thankfully the hundred system has disappeared here. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Speaking other languages is one thing but what ... I find extremly difficult ... is being in a situation where I must translate for people from one to another. I get utterly confused ... and start replying everything back in the wrong language. When Gorbachev was leader of the USSR he had a translator/interpreter that would travel with him, who was 'amazing to watch' as Gorbachev spoke Russian, the guy would be speaking English simulataneously, and vice versa. Ouch ! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Ability of professional translators to translate in real-time is amazing. However, translating in general is a very difficult thing to do. Sure it is relatively easy when it is just some basic stuff like driving directions, weather or "he went there" or "she is coming here". But try and translate some good literature, a poem for example. I've tried a few times and failed miserably. My last attempt was to translate some Rabindranath Tagor's poem (which unfortunately I can only read in Russian translation) to English...
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This thread was inspired by the other language thread a few threads below. Now most educated Indians would have had all their education in English. Now this results in a very curious situation. They begin to think in English. Perhaps not all of them do this to a complete extent. Some people possibly think using a mix - part native tongue and part English. But those people, who also read English books, watch English movies etc. get further and further pushed into English. Take me for example. I am very fluent in Malayalam. But I don't think in Malayalam. When we think, we basically use words, though at a very abstract level. And I use English. It's not even a conscious act. In fact I have made an attempt to think in Malayalam, but it ended up in a useless mental soliloquy which was probably worse that the cries of a rather stupid gorilla. Or take something that’s so primarily linked with language – swearing. If I am asleep and someone empties a glass of water on me, the first words I’d say when I wake up would probably be something similar to, “What the fuck!” or even worse. Malayalam has a very good list of swear words and I am aware of them all. Yet my natural instincts are to use English. Now I do not know whether this is a bad thing or not. For someone like me who tries to think on a global scale rather than on a country-wise scale, it’s not much of an issue. But most other people are very racist with regard to their country. They wrongly call this patriotism. Of course that topic is one on which I have rather strong thoughts, but it would be out of place in this thread. Anyhow I doubt that many of you would empathize my thoughts on this, because you guys speak and think your native tongue – English. You wouldn’t understand what it is to be more comfortable in a foreign language than you are in your native tongue. Anyhow I don’t mind at all to be really honest. English is a damn cool language. And nothing beats English literature. Just think of all those cool authors out there – Asimov, Wodehouse, Clarke, Agatha Christie, Nish – oops – that’s a bit of South Indian modesty for ya ;-) Regards, Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
Nish, I would not completely agree on your thoughts! When some thing is reasoning (like algorithm) I always think in English. But something is social (like what to do on this week end?) I always think in Tamil. I do agree with you on English literature, Asimov and Clarke are my favorite authors too! But I equally enjoy reading science fictions and non-fictions (Sujatha) in Tamil. So I equally love both languages, like a kid love both of his parents!:) Kalai
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Nish, I would not completely agree on your thoughts! When some thing is reasoning (like algorithm) I always think in English. But something is social (like what to do on this week end?) I always think in Tamil. I do agree with you on English literature, Asimov and Clarke are my favorite authors too! But I equally enjoy reading science fictions and non-fictions (Sujatha) in Tamil. So I equally love both languages, like a kid love both of his parents!:) Kalai
Kalai Kandasamy wrote: So I equally love both languages, like a kid love both of his parents! I don't dislike malayalam, it's just that I prefer english more and am also more comfortable in english than I am in malayalam for reading/writing purposes. The problem is with the education medium being english. The only malayalam I know is the crude local dialect which wouldn't qualify as proper malayalam. :-O Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
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This thread was inspired by the other language thread a few threads below. Now most educated Indians would have had all their education in English. Now this results in a very curious situation. They begin to think in English. Perhaps not all of them do this to a complete extent. Some people possibly think using a mix - part native tongue and part English. But those people, who also read English books, watch English movies etc. get further and further pushed into English. Take me for example. I am very fluent in Malayalam. But I don't think in Malayalam. When we think, we basically use words, though at a very abstract level. And I use English. It's not even a conscious act. In fact I have made an attempt to think in Malayalam, but it ended up in a useless mental soliloquy which was probably worse that the cries of a rather stupid gorilla. Or take something that’s so primarily linked with language – swearing. If I am asleep and someone empties a glass of water on me, the first words I’d say when I wake up would probably be something similar to, “What the fuck!” or even worse. Malayalam has a very good list of swear words and I am aware of them all. Yet my natural instincts are to use English. Now I do not know whether this is a bad thing or not. For someone like me who tries to think on a global scale rather than on a country-wise scale, it’s not much of an issue. But most other people are very racist with regard to their country. They wrongly call this patriotism. Of course that topic is one on which I have rather strong thoughts, but it would be out of place in this thread. Anyhow I doubt that many of you would empathize my thoughts on this, because you guys speak and think your native tongue – English. You wouldn’t understand what it is to be more comfortable in a foreign language than you are in your native tongue. Anyhow I don’t mind at all to be really honest. English is a damn cool language. And nothing beats English literature. Just think of all those cool authors out there – Asimov, Wodehouse, Clarke, Agatha Christie, Nish – oops – that’s a bit of South Indian modesty for ya ;-) Regards, Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
I've just found this in support of what I was saying earlier in this thread: The Effects of Language on Thought[^]
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Your experience seems strange to me. I have learned bits of other languages and forgotten them as well. But I find it very easy to think in another language without even trying. It just happens ! I think it would be very inefficient to hear a question in language X interpret into language Y work out a result ... and interpret the result back in language X. The worse thing about knowing other languages for me seems to be for doing crossword puzzles, because I have a large garbled up collection of synonyms in my head. :-( Also things spelling rules and accent rules get confusing when working with languages of a similar base, eg Maori, Tahitian, Hawaiian etc. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Well, Portuguese, English, Maori, Tahitian, Hawaiian, what more ? How many languages do you speak ? :omg: :wtf: I really only speak Portuguese and English well enough for a written conversation. Can also speak in italian, but not write (my grandpa was italian, when I was a kid I practiced a lot) and a little bit of german. And, as every Portuguese speaker, I speak "Portunhol" (português com sotaque espanhol) too :) Concussus surgo. When struck I rise.
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I've just found this in support of what I was saying earlier in this thread: The Effects of Language on Thought[^]
Interesting * eek Quote; Years of research have determined that different languages use different parts of the brain Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Interesting * eek Quote; Years of research have determined that different languages use different parts of the brain Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin^Davies wrote: Quote; Years of research have determined that different languages use different parts of the brain Makes me wonder if this also true for programming languages... ;)
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This thread was inspired by the other language thread a few threads below. Now most educated Indians would have had all their education in English. Now this results in a very curious situation. They begin to think in English. Perhaps not all of them do this to a complete extent. Some people possibly think using a mix - part native tongue and part English. But those people, who also read English books, watch English movies etc. get further and further pushed into English. Take me for example. I am very fluent in Malayalam. But I don't think in Malayalam. When we think, we basically use words, though at a very abstract level. And I use English. It's not even a conscious act. In fact I have made an attempt to think in Malayalam, but it ended up in a useless mental soliloquy which was probably worse that the cries of a rather stupid gorilla. Or take something that’s so primarily linked with language – swearing. If I am asleep and someone empties a glass of water on me, the first words I’d say when I wake up would probably be something similar to, “What the fuck!” or even worse. Malayalam has a very good list of swear words and I am aware of them all. Yet my natural instincts are to use English. Now I do not know whether this is a bad thing or not. For someone like me who tries to think on a global scale rather than on a country-wise scale, it’s not much of an issue. But most other people are very racist with regard to their country. They wrongly call this patriotism. Of course that topic is one on which I have rather strong thoughts, but it would be out of place in this thread. Anyhow I doubt that many of you would empathize my thoughts on this, because you guys speak and think your native tongue – English. You wouldn’t understand what it is to be more comfortable in a foreign language than you are in your native tongue. Anyhow I don’t mind at all to be really honest. English is a damn cool language. And nothing beats English literature. Just think of all those cool authors out there – Asimov, Wodehouse, Clarke, Agatha Christie, Nish – oops – that’s a bit of South Indian modesty for ya ;-) Regards, Nish
Author of the romantic comedy Summer Love and Some more Cricket [New Win] Review by Shog9 Click here for review[NW]
I learned Vietnamese first and then English through exposure to US life. I've been in the US since I was 2 years old, and since I've been speaking English for so long, all of my thoughts are in English now. I do have a strange thing where I count in Vietnamese without thinking, though.
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Well, Portuguese, English, Maori, Tahitian, Hawaiian, what more ? How many languages do you speak ? :omg: :wtf: I really only speak Portuguese and English well enough for a written conversation. Can also speak in italian, but not write (my grandpa was italian, when I was a kid I practiced a lot) and a little bit of german. And, as every Portuguese speaker, I speak "Portunhol" (português com sotaque espanhol) too :) Concussus surgo. When struck I rise.
:-) At the moment probably the best languages I speak are English, Maori, Portuguese , Korean. I was brought in a rural school that taught Maori for the first few years... and had English at home. I find it easy to both learn and forget languages now. If you don't use them they just become a memory leak. Tahitian , Hawaiian are close to Maori, like Portuguese is close to Spanish, Italian, French etc, so learning them isn't really a chore. There are some languages like German, Dutch etc, that I have found very easy to read, but difficult to speak ae well. Whilst in Brazil I learned to speak some Tupi stuff in Rondonia as well. :-) Actually I use to find learning in bars when drinking really useful. :-) It sort of makes a language liquid. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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:-) At the moment probably the best languages I speak are English, Maori, Portuguese , Korean. I was brought in a rural school that taught Maori for the first few years... and had English at home. I find it easy to both learn and forget languages now. If you don't use them they just become a memory leak. Tahitian , Hawaiian are close to Maori, like Portuguese is close to Spanish, Italian, French etc, so learning them isn't really a chore. There are some languages like German, Dutch etc, that I have found very easy to read, but difficult to speak ae well. Whilst in Brazil I learned to speak some Tupi stuff in Rondonia as well. :-) Actually I use to find learning in bars when drinking really useful. :-) It sort of makes a language liquid. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Colin^Davies wrote: Actually I use to find learning in bars when drinking really useful. It sort of makes a language liquid. I like that Colin. May i quote you? :)
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Shog9 If I could sleep forever, I could forget about everything...
Sure can Shogi :-). Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Sure can Shogi :-). Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.