Egypt hosts Arab piracy meeting
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Diego Moita wrote:
you can't find your target. The hardest part is to find who to shoot.
Have you been smoking something? Find them? They are the guys on the stolen cargo ships with the guns. You kill enough pirates people will stop thinking that's a neato way to make a buck.
thrakazog wrote:
Have you been smoking something?
YES MAN! :-D And I like it! But it is far less dangerous that the "fix it like Rambo would" b.s. you seem to believe.
thrakazog wrote:
They are the guys on the stolen cargo ships with the guns.
Ohh,... is it that simple? Like if I said "the Talibans are the guys in the mountains with the guns, go there and kill them" or "insurgents are those guys with guns in Falujah, go there and kill them"? So why is it not working elsewhere?
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
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there is a larger issue here guys. as the global population of pirates has decreased, global warming has increased in an almost one to one ratio. and that's a causal relationship if ever there was one: did you see the second pirate movie with johny depp and what's her name? yeah. shooting pirates may seem like a good solution to the problem on its face (esp if you shoot them in the face) but in the long run, what about the environment? I also saw that al gore movie with that rapper guy who hates black people, and if there's even a shred of truth to that, we need to kill michael moore as soon as possible, install a global goverment based on piracy and up the use of the words "yar", "aye" and "avast" by at least a factor of 3. anything less than that and we'll have a school barely fit for ants, let alone those who want to do other things good too.
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there is a larger issue here guys. as the global population of pirates has decreased, global warming has increased in an almost one to one ratio. and that's a causal relationship if ever there was one: did you see the second pirate movie with johny depp and what's her name? yeah. shooting pirates may seem like a good solution to the problem on its face (esp if you shoot them in the face) but in the long run, what about the environment? I also saw that al gore movie with that rapper guy who hates black people, and if there's even a shred of truth to that, we need to kill michael moore as soon as possible, install a global goverment based on piracy and up the use of the words "yar", "aye" and "avast" by at least a factor of 3. anything less than that and we'll have a school barely fit for ants, let alone those who want to do other things good too.
Yar...
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thrakazog wrote:
Egypt
Hmmm,... no wonder. Guess where the Suez channel is. And guess who would loose lots of money if all the ships decide to go through Capetown instead of Suez.
thrakazog wrote:
Let me help you out there guys. Storm the ships, kill all the pirates. No negotiating. Repeat as necessary until the problem stops.
Rrriiight... Like John Wayne would do in "Black Hawk Down" (the real one, not the movie)[^], Afghanistan and Iraq. Too bad reality doesn't like to follow the movies' plot, eh? Let me put this as clear as I can: this is like guerrilla warfare. Like in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Battle of Mogadishu you're not fighting an army belonging to a government therefore you can't find your target easily. The hardest part is precisely to find who to shoot. It's not the job for a conventional army.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Diego Moita wrote:
you're not fighting an army belonging to a government therefore you can't find your target easily.
Uh, Diego. The pirates are on a boat. A pretty big boat in most cases. And the boats mostly sail from a selected few harbors. Not so hard to find... You're right though, it's not a job for the army, its a job for the Navy. Sinking boats is what they're best at.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
With naval ships there from various nations, this should be a short-lived problem.
Among the five countries that met, only Egypt and Saudi Arabia have any naval forces worth talking about. Unfortunately even those two have, between 'em, a dozen frigates and four diesel subs. They need to get the aid of a country like India that has a significant navy (at least in non-superpower terms).
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
only Egypt and Saudi Arabia have any naval forces worth talking about
That's as may be. But, also there are naval forces from (1) United States, (2) France, (3) UK, (4) Russia, and (5) India. There is more than enough ships there to do the job, even if some are required to do some kind of escorting.
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thrakazog wrote:
Have you been smoking something?
YES MAN! :-D And I like it! But it is far less dangerous that the "fix it like Rambo would" b.s. you seem to believe.
thrakazog wrote:
They are the guys on the stolen cargo ships with the guns.
Ohh,... is it that simple? Like if I said "the Talibans are the guys in the mountains with the guns, go there and kill them" or "insurgents are those guys with guns in Falujah, go there and kill them"? So why is it not working elsewhere?
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Diego Moita wrote:
But it is far less dangerous that the "fix it like Rambo would" b.s. you seem to believe.
Oh so you would just pay them the money they demand and wait for this shit to happen again?
Diego Moita wrote:
is it that simple? Like if I said "the Talibans are the guys in the mountains with the guns, go there and kill them" or "insurgents are those guys with guns in Falujah, go there and kill them"
Yes numb-nuts it is that simple. You see, a boat is far smaller than a mountain range off in some country where terrorists can hide in a civilian population. The pirates will be nicely contained ON that boat.
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Oakman wrote:
only Egypt and Saudi Arabia have any naval forces worth talking about
That's as may be. But, also there are naval forces from (1) United States, (2) France, (3) UK, (4) Russia, and (5) India. There is more than enough ships there to do the job, even if some are required to do some kind of escorting.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
But, also there are naval forces from (1) United States, (2) France, (3) UK, (4) Russia, and (5) India
Sure thing. But they are meeting behind closed doors and without inviting the participation of the more powerful countries. Any decisions they come to will very quickly have to turn into requests before they become anything but mice voting to bell the cat. Egypt took the Suez away from France and the UK, maybe they should give it back if they can't protect it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Diego Moita wrote:
But it is far less dangerous that the "fix it like Rambo would" b.s. you seem to believe.
Oh so you would just pay them the money they demand and wait for this shit to happen again?
Diego Moita wrote:
is it that simple? Like if I said "the Talibans are the guys in the mountains with the guns, go there and kill them" or "insurgents are those guys with guns in Falujah, go there and kill them"
Yes numb-nuts it is that simple. You see, a boat is far smaller than a mountain range off in some country where terrorists can hide in a civilian population. The pirates will be nicely contained ON that boat.
thrakazog wrote:
Oh so you would just pay them the money they demand and wait for this sh*t to happen again?
No. Did I say that? Where?
thrakazog wrote:
Yes numb-nuts it is that simple. You see, a boat is far smaller than a mountain range off in some country where terrorists can hide in a civilian population. The pirates will be nicely contained ON that boat.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Pleeeaaase, keep posting more. You're very entertaining.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
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thrakazog wrote:
Oh so you would just pay them the money they demand and wait for this sh*t to happen again?
No. Did I say that? Where?
thrakazog wrote:
Yes numb-nuts it is that simple. You see, a boat is far smaller than a mountain range off in some country where terrorists can hide in a civilian population. The pirates will be nicely contained ON that boat.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Pleeeaaase, keep posting more. You're very entertaining.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Diego Moita wrote:
thrakazog wrote: Oh so you would just pay them the money they demand and wait for this sh*t to happen again? No. Did I say that? Where?
Ok smart guy. You don't like my idea on how to fix it. What would your brilliant solutions be? Tell me your great scheme for how you would fix this and prevent it from happening again. Near as I can you just want to grab your ankles and tell the burly man behind you to go gentle.
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thrakazog wrote:
Have you been smoking something?
YES MAN! :-D And I like it! But it is far less dangerous that the "fix it like Rambo would" b.s. you seem to believe.
thrakazog wrote:
They are the guys on the stolen cargo ships with the guns.
Ohh,... is it that simple? Like if I said "the Talibans are the guys in the mountains with the guns, go there and kill them" or "insurgents are those guys with guns in Falujah, go there and kill them"? So why is it not working elsewhere?
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
see, here's the thing. a lot of people will tell you that figuring out who to shoot is difficult, esp if you have to hike to their murder site and/or ride a 4 wheeler or one of those kick ass rokon motercycle things. and while riding around all day in the mountains, shooting terrorists, pirates, eskimos or leprechauns could take literally all day, it would be both fun and profitalbe. esp the leprechauns, who rape men in bathrooms, take their wallets, stash the cash in pots under "rainbows" (and seriously, who didn't see a gay-rape culture springing fabulously from that little habbit?). but back to the main point: we do not want to handle shit like rambo. aging poorly with steriods in a small asian country is no way to solve problems. what we need to do is get a bunch of rokons, and for water faring pirates, probably some jet skis, a bunch of guns, and then drive around all day shooting them. we should probably bring along a camera crew to document our awesomness too. 2 weeks later, we'll check the pirate sign up sheets and very likely find them severly under signed.
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Diego Moita wrote:
But it is far less dangerous that the "fix it like Rambo would" b.s. you seem to believe.
Oh so you would just pay them the money they demand and wait for this shit to happen again?
Diego Moita wrote:
is it that simple? Like if I said "the Talibans are the guys in the mountains with the guns, go there and kill them" or "insurgents are those guys with guns in Falujah, go there and kill them"
Yes numb-nuts it is that simple. You see, a boat is far smaller than a mountain range off in some country where terrorists can hide in a civilian population. The pirates will be nicely contained ON that boat.
thrakazog wrote:
You see, a boat is far smaller than a mountain range off in some country where terrorists can hide in a civilian population.
And the ocean is a lot bigger. And the ships they're stealing have an easily-recognizable monetary value, unlike random civilians.
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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Egypt hosts Arab piracy meeting for 6 countries.[^] Let me help you out there guys. Storm the ships, kill all the pirates. No negotiating. Repeat as necessary until the problem stops.
thrakazog wrote:
kill all the pirates. No negotiating
Well, Club Gitmo is going to be shut down, what else would you do with them? The question is if a US task force catches any of these guys, do we read them thier Maranda rights and to which jurisdiction do they go for trial?
MrPlankton
(bad guy)"Fear is a hammer, and when the people are beaten finally to the conviction that their existence hangs by a frayed thread, they will be led where they need to go."
(good guy)"Which is where?"
(bad guy)"To a responsible future in a properly managed world."
Dean Koontz, The Good Guy -
Diego Moita wrote:
you're not fighting an army belonging to a government therefore you can't find your target easily.
Uh, Diego. The pirates are on a boat. A pretty big boat in most cases. And the boats mostly sail from a selected few harbors. Not so hard to find... You're right though, it's not a job for the army, its a job for the Navy. Sinking boats is what they're best at.
Rob Graham wrote:
Uh, Diego. The pirates are on a boat. A pretty big boat in most cases. And the boats mostly sail from a selected few harbors. Not so hard to find
Oh Rob, come on. You are smarter than that. They don't need to stay in the boat waiting for helicopters and ships. The boat is close to a small town that provides it with food and logistics. They have the support of local warlords and the population. Like in a guerrilla warfare the pirates have thousands of tactical moves to react against armed action: hide the hostages in land, plant bombs in the ship, etc... They're playing with the surprise element. That's their huge advantage. And, well used, it has proven to be very powerful even against the most organized armies or navies. Btw, there are dozens of warships already patrolling the Aden straight. I think the best solution is to equip the ships to self defense. Another option is security firms using small armed ships that would escort the big ships in the Aden straight. And there is the alternative of going through the south, through Good Hope Cape. Or go by plane. Let the market work it out.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
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thrakazog wrote:
No negotiating.
I recall reading the Indian navy the other day sank a pirate ship. No questions asked, no bartering.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
Not quite. They asked for a surrender. in response the idiots threatened to sink the Indians. It worked about as well as the attempt a week or two prior by another group to shoot up two small boats of UK Marines, the only difference being that the lighter arms meant that there were survivors on the red team.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Rob Graham wrote:
Uh, Diego. The pirates are on a boat. A pretty big boat in most cases. And the boats mostly sail from a selected few harbors. Not so hard to find
Oh Rob, come on. You are smarter than that. They don't need to stay in the boat waiting for helicopters and ships. The boat is close to a small town that provides it with food and logistics. They have the support of local warlords and the population. Like in a guerrilla warfare the pirates have thousands of tactical moves to react against armed action: hide the hostages in land, plant bombs in the ship, etc... They're playing with the surprise element. That's their huge advantage. And, well used, it has proven to be very powerful even against the most organized armies or navies. Btw, there are dozens of warships already patrolling the Aden straight. I think the best solution is to equip the ships to self defense. Another option is security firms using small armed ships that would escort the big ships in the Aden straight. And there is the alternative of going through the south, through Good Hope Cape. Or go by plane. Let the market work it out.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Diego Moita wrote:
Like in a guerrilla warfare the pirates have thousands of tactical moves to react against armed action: hide the hostages in land, plant bombs in the ship, etc...
those are all good tactics, and I'm sure the others are also good. I'm really only employing one: shooting them. I win. it's like when you're playing chess. people really struggle with whose knight can check which pawn and can a castle really become a verb? I just tell the fellow I'm playing that I'm going to shoot him if he doesn't concede immediately, and once he understands that I'm serious (god gave us two knee caps for a reason) I always win. something to think about.
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Not quite. They asked for a surrender. in response the idiots threatened to sink the Indians. It worked about as well as the attempt a week or two prior by another group to shoot up two small boats of UK Marines, the only difference being that the lighter arms meant that there were survivors on the red team.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
Thanks for the clarity, Dan. It was just something I quickly browsed through :)
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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thrakazog wrote:
Egypt
Hmmm,... no wonder. Guess where the Suez channel is. And guess who would loose lots of money if all the ships decide to go through Capetown instead of Suez.
thrakazog wrote:
Let me help you out there guys. Storm the ships, kill all the pirates. No negotiating. Repeat as necessary until the problem stops.
Rrriiight... Like John Wayne would do in "Black Hawk Down" (the real one, not the movie)[^], Afghanistan and Iraq. Too bad reality doesn't like to follow the movies' plot, eh? Let me put this as clear as I can: this is like guerrilla warfare. Like in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Battle of Mogadishu you're not fighting an army belonging to a government therefore you can't find your target easily. The hardest part is precisely to find who to shoot. It's not the job for a conventional army.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Oh, it's very easy once you get over the delusion it's possible to fight a war and only harm the guilty party. Storm the captured ships with commandos (SEALS, SBS, etc) then review radar/satellite surveillance to identify the port of origin and drop a bomb big enough to blot it off the map entirely. Once it becomes clear that the only thing attempting piracy will achieve is to get you dead immediately and the problem will be self correcting.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Rob Graham wrote:
Uh, Diego. The pirates are on a boat. A pretty big boat in most cases. And the boats mostly sail from a selected few harbors. Not so hard to find
Oh Rob, come on. You are smarter than that. They don't need to stay in the boat waiting for helicopters and ships. The boat is close to a small town that provides it with food and logistics. They have the support of local warlords and the population. Like in a guerrilla warfare the pirates have thousands of tactical moves to react against armed action: hide the hostages in land, plant bombs in the ship, etc... They're playing with the surprise element. That's their huge advantage. And, well used, it has proven to be very powerful even against the most organized armies or navies. Btw, there are dozens of warships already patrolling the Aden straight. I think the best solution is to equip the ships to self defense. Another option is security firms using small armed ships that would escort the big ships in the Aden straight. And there is the alternative of going through the south, through Good Hope Cape. Or go by plane. Let the market work it out.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Actually, using naval vessels to escort ships past the Aden straight is a pretty good idea (note I said Naval vessels, not "small armed ships"). Maybe Brazil could provide a couple,you know, to sort of do it's share in the world?
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Rob Graham wrote:
Uh, Diego. The pirates are on a boat. A pretty big boat in most cases. And the boats mostly sail from a selected few harbors. Not so hard to find
Oh Rob, come on. You are smarter than that. They don't need to stay in the boat waiting for helicopters and ships. The boat is close to a small town that provides it with food and logistics. They have the support of local warlords and the population. Like in a guerrilla warfare the pirates have thousands of tactical moves to react against armed action: hide the hostages in land, plant bombs in the ship, etc... They're playing with the surprise element. That's their huge advantage. And, well used, it has proven to be very powerful even against the most organized armies or navies. Btw, there are dozens of warships already patrolling the Aden straight. I think the best solution is to equip the ships to self defense. Another option is security firms using small armed ships that would escort the big ships in the Aden straight. And there is the alternative of going through the south, through Good Hope Cape. Or go by plane. Let the market work it out.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
The shippers are all shitting themselves over liability risks if they hire armed guards. :mad: A pity since it would probably be the cheapest solution to protect high value targets, even if it isn't practical for smaller low value ships.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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thrakazog wrote:
You see, a boat is far smaller than a mountain range off in some country where terrorists can hide in a civilian population.
And the ocean is a lot bigger. And the ships they're stealing have an easily-recognizable monetary value, unlike random civilians.
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
Shog9 wrote:
And the ocean is a lot bigger
Yes, but it's not like the ships are hiding. Their locations are already known. The article itself says " Pirates have anchored the Sirius Star off the coast of Somalia [AFP]", "A Ukrainian-registered cargo ship carrying tanks and heavy weaponry remains anchored off the Somali coast." Anchored, they aren't even on the move in the big ocean. If we can just air-drop Chuck Norris onto them, problem solved....