Where's Adnan?
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This particular incident happened in Bangladesh, but I am sure incidents like this are very frequent amongst Muslim families in Pakistan and India too. I personally know of a Muslim girl (my sister's classmate) who was in a relationship with a Christian classmate. Her parents threatened to kill the lad, threatened that they'd suicide, confiscated her cell phone and driving license, and even locked her up in a room when she tried to argue with them. Eventually she succumbed and was forced to marry a Muslim lad of her parents' choice. A tragedy really! :sigh:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkNishant Sivakumar wrote:
This particular incident happened in Bangladesh, but I am sure incidents like this are very frequent amongst Muslim families in Pakistan and India too.
one word, Islamphobia.
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When there are issues like this?[^] BTW, men are sometimes forced into marriges as well.
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When there are issues like this?[^] BTW, men are sometimes forced into marriges as well.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
What's your point?
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
This particular incident happened in Bangladesh, but I am sure incidents like this are very frequent amongst Muslim families in Pakistan and India too.
one word, Islamphobia.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
one word, Islamphobia.
What do you have to say about this : "I personally know of a Muslim girl (my sister's classmate) who was in a relationship with a Christian classmate. Her parents threatened to kill the lad, threatened that they'd suicide, confiscated her cell phone and driving license, and even locked her up in a room when she tried to argue with them. Eventually she succumbed and was forced to marry a Muslim lad of her parents' choice." What's Islamophobic about stating an incident that I was personally aware of?
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
one word, Islamphobia.
What do you have to say about this : "I personally know of a Muslim girl (my sister's classmate) who was in a relationship with a Christian classmate. Her parents threatened to kill the lad, threatened that they'd suicide, confiscated her cell phone and driving license, and even locked her up in a room when she tried to argue with them. Eventually she succumbed and was forced to marry a Muslim lad of her parents' choice." What's Islamophobic about stating an incident that I was personally aware of?
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkNishant Sivakumar wrote:
What's Islamophobic about stating an incident that I was personally aware of?
Simple, it's a blanket explanation that requires no thought. That appears to be what he specialises in, ways of explaining things that don't require thought, and defy all attempts at intelligent explanation.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
This particular incident happened in Bangladesh, but I am sure incidents like this are very frequent amongst Muslim families in Pakistan and India too.
one word, Islamphobia.
Yeah, I can see how girls who are forced into loveless marriages with old men who will beat and rape them, or girls who live in fear of being killed by relatives, would be scared of Islam. This doesn't happen in Christian countries, you know. How do you explain that ? Is it George Bushes fault ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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jith - iii wrote:
This could happen in any religion in India.
Agree - parentally arranged marriages (against their children's wishes) happens in all Indian communities/states. Though my personal observation has been that Muslim parents are stricter about this compared to Christian/Hindu parents.
jith - iii wrote:
Debatable,in indian situation
I wouldn't say that. Forcing someone to marry someone against his or her wish is a tragic thing to happen anywhere in the world - I don't think that having it happen in India makes it any less of a tragedy.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkNishant Sivakumar wrote:
Agree - parentally arranged marriages (against their children's wishes) happens in all Indian communities/states. Though my personal observation has been that Muslim parents are stricter about this compared to Christian/Hindu parents.
I don't think so. Upper caste Hindus are still strict in these things. Being from a brahmin family, I know very well that I'll be outcasted if I marry a girl not even from a different religion but from the same religion and a different caste. But as you said the social clutch of Hindus amongst people of their soceity is not as strong as Muslims or christains. So even if they have pushed out by their family a hindu can easily live the life according to Hindu traditions. Same is not the case of a muslim or christian. Another thing depends here is education of the parents.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I don't think that having it happen in India makes it any less of a tragedy.
If you exclude the cities,the concept here is,parents are living only for their children. No parent will dream about a bad life for their children. If you are living in a society where inter dependency between people are inevitable,inter religious marriages would normally gives no happiness to the couples. And unlike in devolped countries you may not get a second chance if you realize that your choice of partner was wrong. Parents obviously worry about these facts.
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jith - iii wrote:
This could happen in any religion in India.
Agree - parentally arranged marriages (against their children's wishes) happens in all Indian communities/states. Though my personal observation has been that Muslim parents are stricter about this compared to Christian/Hindu parents.
jith - iii wrote:
Debatable,in indian situation
I wouldn't say that. Forcing someone to marry someone against his or her wish is a tragic thing to happen anywhere in the world - I don't think that having it happen in India makes it any less of a tragedy.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkNishant Sivakumar wrote:
I don't think that having it happen in India makes it any less of a tragedy.
Unless you're the man. In India they pay you to marry their daughters. The man gets the dowry. :-D
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Yeah, I can see how girls who are forced into loveless marriages with old men who will beat and rape them, or girls who live in fear of being killed by relatives, would be scared of Islam. This doesn't happen in Christian countries, you know. How do you explain that ? Is it George Bushes fault ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
According to an Indian perspective arranged marriages turned out be the better option. The logic here is,parents would have more life experience to select a better partner for their wards. They fear that children's selection would mostly due to mere infatuation and they think they can give a better life partner for their child. The proof what they show here is the less number of divorces.
Christian Graus wrote:
I can see how girls who are forced into loveless marriages with old men who will beat and rape them, or girls who live in fear of being killed by relatives, would be scared of Islam.
If this happens it's only amongst the uneducated.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
one word, Islamphobia.
What do you have to say about this : "I personally know of a Muslim girl (my sister's classmate) who was in a relationship with a Christian classmate. Her parents threatened to kill the lad, threatened that they'd suicide, confiscated her cell phone and driving license, and even locked her up in a room when she tried to argue with them. Eventually she succumbed and was forced to marry a Muslim lad of her parents' choice." What's Islamophobic about stating an incident that I was personally aware of?
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkI understand what you meant. Child marriages and baseless divorces are happening mainly amongst muslims. But protests againsts these are happenening inside islam itself. It's just because of lack of education and muslim community in India is realizing that now and we could see many Islamic youth orgnizations active on various human rights issues in islam. But coming to inter religious marriages,all religion are in the same boat.
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According to an Indian perspective arranged marriages turned out be the better option. The logic here is,parents would have more life experience to select a better partner for their wards. They fear that children's selection would mostly due to mere infatuation and they think they can give a better life partner for their child. The proof what they show here is the less number of divorces.
Christian Graus wrote:
I can see how girls who are forced into loveless marriages with old men who will beat and rape them, or girls who live in fear of being killed by relatives, would be scared of Islam.
If this happens it's only amongst the uneducated.
jith - iii wrote:
The logic here is,parents would have more life experience to select a better partner for their wards.
And that's a pile of BS.
jith - iii wrote:
If this happens it's only amongst the uneducated.
IF this happens ? It plainly happens. What's really needed is for educated Muslims to decry it as much as ignorant ones like Adnan make excuses for it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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I understand what you meant. Child marriages and baseless divorces are happening mainly amongst muslims. But protests againsts these are happenening inside islam itself. It's just because of lack of education and muslim community in India is realizing that now and we could see many Islamic youth orgnizations active on various human rights issues in islam. But coming to inter religious marriages,all religion are in the same boat.
jith - iii wrote:
But coming to inter religious marriages,all religion are in the same boat.
I don't believe that is true.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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According to an Indian perspective arranged marriages turned out be the better option. The logic here is,parents would have more life experience to select a better partner for their wards. They fear that children's selection would mostly due to mere infatuation and they think they can give a better life partner for their child. The proof what they show here is the less number of divorces.
Christian Graus wrote:
I can see how girls who are forced into loveless marriages with old men who will beat and rape them, or girls who live in fear of being killed by relatives, would be scared of Islam.
If this happens it's only amongst the uneducated.
jith - iii wrote:
The proof what they show here is the less number of divorces.
Fewer divorces mean that the woman isn't working in a job that can support her. and/Or a legal system tilted towards forcing people to stay together.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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jith - iii wrote:
The proof what they show here is the less number of divorces.
Fewer divorces mean that the woman isn't working in a job that can support her. and/Or a legal system tilted towards forcing people to stay together.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Yes, lack of divorce doesn't prove happiness, especially in an already potentially oppressive environment. It's like the sudden explosion of incest cases reported in the 80s. Sick men didn't suddenly realise they had daughters, society was supportive of those girls and gave them a voice instead of things being kept hidden.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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jith - iii wrote:
But coming to inter religious marriages,all religion are in the same boat.
I don't believe that is true.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Well,In india Christains are normally soft in terms of inter religious marriages. The only condition would be the boy/girl of the other religion needs to be converted into Christianity. If they are not ready,there won't be riots but the church will try to baptist their children. Otherwise, they would be out of church and it's like a big punishment in Christianity where you would not be even allowed to be buried in the church cemetery. Still this is dependent up on the level of influence of the people in the church. In the case of hindu's maximum punishment can be your parents will not accept you afterwards. You would not be allowed in any family functions. It's as if you will not allow your enemy to attend any of your family functions. It's fun you know. :) .Watching the impact an inter caste or religious love marriage makes in the society.
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Well,In india Christains are normally soft in terms of inter religious marriages. The only condition would be the boy/girl of the other religion needs to be converted into Christianity. If they are not ready,there won't be riots but the church will try to baptist their children. Otherwise, they would be out of church and it's like a big punishment in Christianity where you would not be even allowed to be buried in the church cemetery. Still this is dependent up on the level of influence of the people in the church. In the case of hindu's maximum punishment can be your parents will not accept you afterwards. You would not be allowed in any family functions. It's as if you will not allow your enemy to attend any of your family functions. It's fun you know. :) .Watching the impact an inter caste or religious love marriage makes in the society.
jith - iii wrote:
The only condition would be the boy/girl of the other religion needs to be converted into Christianity.
See, that doesn't happen here, at all. We just hope our kids find someone who they love and who will love them. Of course, as a Christian, I am happy to share what I believe and inevitably will do so to whoever my kids bring home, but it won't be a prerequisite for marriage.
jith - iii wrote:
and it's like a big punishment in Christianity where you would not be even allowed to be buried in the church cemetery
Odd. We just have cemeteries, and Christianity actually has nothing to say about how people are buried, that's obviously a local invention b.c I've not heard of it happening in the west past the dark ages.
jith - iii wrote:
It's fun you know. .Watching the impact an inter caste or religious love marriage makes in the society.
It sounds messed up to me. Nothing like that happens here, at least, not in general society. I'm sure there are isolated cases where immigrants follow their old beliefs.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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jith - iii wrote:
The logic here is,parents would have more life experience to select a better partner for their wards.
And that's a pile of BS.
jith - iii wrote:
If this happens it's only amongst the uneducated.
IF this happens ? It plainly happens. What's really needed is for educated Muslims to decry it as much as ignorant ones like Adnan make excuses for it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
And that's a pile of BS.
It's not like you imagine. Many of the educated yout prefer arranged marriages. First thing, the money you get as part of dowry which will be useful for the initial expenditure while staring to run a family :) . Second,you will realize that it's really unlikely for you to get the dream beauty of which you imagine. So you will be ready to make compromises. Many people who would fall behind the love market could thus come forward. Money,Job security,family all these things take priority and believe me it'll be hotter than any big business deal. Matrimonial sites and marriage brokerage are a big businesses in India.
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Well,In india Christains are normally soft in terms of inter religious marriages. The only condition would be the boy/girl of the other religion needs to be converted into Christianity. If they are not ready,there won't be riots but the church will try to baptist their children. Otherwise, they would be out of church and it's like a big punishment in Christianity where you would not be even allowed to be buried in the church cemetery. Still this is dependent up on the level of influence of the people in the church. In the case of hindu's maximum punishment can be your parents will not accept you afterwards. You would not be allowed in any family functions. It's as if you will not allow your enemy to attend any of your family functions. It's fun you know. :) .Watching the impact an inter caste or religious love marriage makes in the society.
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jith - iii wrote:
The only condition would be the boy/girl of the other religion needs to be converted into Christianity.
See, that doesn't happen here, at all. We just hope our kids find someone who they love and who will love them. Of course, as a Christian, I am happy to share what I believe and inevitably will do so to whoever my kids bring home, but it won't be a prerequisite for marriage.
jith - iii wrote:
and it's like a big punishment in Christianity where you would not be even allowed to be buried in the church cemetery
Odd. We just have cemeteries, and Christianity actually has nothing to say about how people are buried, that's obviously a local invention b.c I've not heard of it happening in the west past the dark ages.
jith - iii wrote:
It's fun you know. .Watching the impact an inter caste or religious love marriage makes in the society.
It sounds messed up to me. Nothing like that happens here, at least, not in general society. I'm sure there are isolated cases where immigrants follow their old beliefs.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
We just hope our kids find someone who they love and who will love them
Depends on the society. In india family takes priority to your personal interests. How many relatives you are having?. In any small family occassions we could expect atleast 200-300 close relatives. If it's a big event you can expect 1000-2000 relatives. Here in India,If your kid has gone with someone you lost the oppurtunity to feed 2000 relatives.:) Another thing is,Indian soceity never accepts divorces. If you give moe freedom to your kids,premarital sex,abortion these are the nightmares forthe parents. They are afraid of it. That's why so much brainstorming takes place with marriages. A typical marriage plan will long a minimum of one year where parents collects the biodata of maximum brides/grooms for their kids and chooses the best suited one.
modified on Monday, December 15, 2008 1:33 AM
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jith - iii wrote:
In the case of hindu's maximum punishment can be your parents will not accept you afterwards.
Often that maximum punishment also don't last for long time. btw do you still believe all the religions are in the same boat?
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