Another Culture Going Under (Literally)
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Lee Humphries wrote:
rising sea levels
Can you quote the source for that? I have been looking for some serious scientific proof of rising sea levels, it is conspicuous by it's absence. Or perhaps you are referring to opinion. Maybe you are thinking of inland flooding caused by beach erosion because sand is being removed for building use? Hardly Sea Level Rise, more Island Being Reduced?
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
Dalek Dave wrote:
Can you quote the source for that?
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Can you quote the source for that?
Serious Scientific Proof and Wikipedia? Really Steve I expected better :) In fact Newscientist found that most "Sea Level Rise" measurements were amalgams of bad instrumentation, thermal errors and subduction, and that in the past few years there has been periods of sea level fall recorded. (Mainly owing to tidal changes after earthquakes and tsunamis). AGW is a non-starter, as there is more sea ice today than there was 30 years ago. (Nasa, but probably believable)[^] In fact the Maldives has shown a fall in sea level, go figure, just 5 years ago they were worried about going under!
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
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Serious Scientific Proof and Wikipedia? Really Steve I expected better :) In fact Newscientist found that most "Sea Level Rise" measurements were amalgams of bad instrumentation, thermal errors and subduction, and that in the past few years there has been periods of sea level fall recorded. (Mainly owing to tidal changes after earthquakes and tsunamis). AGW is a non-starter, as there is more sea ice today than there was 30 years ago. (Nasa, but probably believable)[^] In fact the Maldives has shown a fall in sea level, go figure, just 5 years ago they were worried about going under!
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
Im not going to wade into the rising sea-level debate vs proof etc (was there a pun back there ?) quite by coincidence, I saw a National Geographic show last night (Sunday) that offered some sort of notion/debate of 'Climate Change' vs <blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">Dalek Dave wrote:</div> Hardly Sea Level Rise, more Island Being Reduced? </blockquote> The reference is here :- http://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/sl_drives_short.html[^] ... of particular note, and likely also a factor in the case mentioned - "Climate variability and change has a significant impact on wind and wave conditions globally. For example, studies in the North Atlantic Ocean have shown that wave heights have increased over the last few decades, displaying a strong relationship with the North Atlantic Oscillation, and inter-annual variability as great as 20 % (Woolf et al., 2002). Sterl and Caires (2005), in their analysis of the ERA-40 global waves re-analysis, identified significant trends in wave height, particularly in the Southern Ocean, the North Atlantic and the North Pacific. These trends are more pronounced in the high quantiles, indicating that the large wave events are increasing at a greater rate than the mean. In the Southern Ocean, Sterl and Caires (2005) identified an increased number of Southern Ocean storms as the reason for the observed trend in the model record." 'g' [edit - sorry, muffed the formatting somehow]
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Serious Scientific Proof and Wikipedia? Really Steve I expected better :) In fact Newscientist found that most "Sea Level Rise" measurements were amalgams of bad instrumentation, thermal errors and subduction, and that in the past few years there has been periods of sea level fall recorded. (Mainly owing to tidal changes after earthquakes and tsunamis). AGW is a non-starter, as there is more sea ice today than there was 30 years ago. (Nasa, but probably believable)[^] In fact the Maldives has shown a fall in sea level, go figure, just 5 years ago they were worried about going under!
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
:) The Wikipedia page does have peer-reviewed citations... Is there more volume of sea ice, or just more coverage? And the first image in that item has the (partial) caption: "Example of North Pole Sea Ice Decrease: This image shows that sea ice in the North Pole has been on the decline, with the most significant loss in the past three years."....AND the article says that the apparent increased coverage in Antarctica could be due to higher global temperatures!
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:) The Wikipedia page does have peer-reviewed citations... Is there more volume of sea ice, or just more coverage? And the first image in that item has the (partial) caption: "Example of North Pole Sea Ice Decrease: This image shows that sea ice in the North Pole has been on the decline, with the most significant loss in the past three years."....AND the article says that the apparent increased coverage in Antarctica could be due to higher global temperatures!
Note that greater Coverage reflects back more Solar Energy, (qv Snowball Earth). Also note that it is often mention that hundreds of Glaciers are melting! This is true, but rarely mentioned are the thousands that are growing!
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
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Lee Humphries wrote:
rising sea levels
Can you quote the source for that? I have been looking for some serious scientific proof of rising sea levels, it is conspicuous by it's absence. Or perhaps you are referring to opinion. Maybe you are thinking of inland flooding caused by beach erosion because sand is being removed for building use? Hardly Sea Level Rise, more Island Being Reduced?
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
In the news item on local TV here (Solomon Islands) the source was the NDMO (local National Disaster Management Office). But I agree that it's hard to make any definitive statement about rising sea levels when islands and especially atolls are notorious for problems with erosion. In this case it wasn't sand being removed for building purposes that led to the problems. Recently there were some islands in PNG that had their inhabitants resettled because the islands were no longer habitable. Certain smaller islands in Kiribati have disappeared faster than would be expected to 'normal' processes. Tokelau is experiencing enormous problems, and I have personally seen islands here in the Western Solomons that have been reduced to nothing more than a pile of rocks at low tide. However I just recently saw another report that described progressive sea level rises of a few centimetres in this general part of the world. However, I can't remember enough details to search for it easily.
I just love Koalas - they go great with Bacon.
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Note that greater Coverage reflects back more Solar Energy, (qv Snowball Earth). Also note that it is often mention that hundreds of Glaciers are melting! This is true, but rarely mentioned are the thousands that are growing!
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
Dalek Dave wrote:
Snowball Earth
Is far from universally accepted.
Dalek Dave wrote:
rarely mentioned are the thousands that are growing!
It's the steroids in the water.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Snowball Earth
Is far from universally accepted.
Dalek Dave wrote:
rarely mentioned are the thousands that are growing!
It's the steroids in the water.
Steve_Harris wrote:
Dalek Dave wrote: Snowball Earth Is far from universally accepted.
Neither is Evolution, but would you deny it?
Steve_Harris wrote:
It's the steroids in the water.
Yeah, that is why I live in a 'Hard' water area. (or possibly the Viagra in the water?)
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
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Im not going to wade into the rising sea-level debate vs proof etc (was there a pun back there ?) quite by coincidence, I saw a National Geographic show last night (Sunday) that offered some sort of notion/debate of 'Climate Change' vs <blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">Dalek Dave wrote:</div> Hardly Sea Level Rise, more Island Being Reduced? </blockquote> The reference is here :- http://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/sl_drives_short.html[^] ... of particular note, and likely also a factor in the case mentioned - "Climate variability and change has a significant impact on wind and wave conditions globally. For example, studies in the North Atlantic Ocean have shown that wave heights have increased over the last few decades, displaying a strong relationship with the North Atlantic Oscillation, and inter-annual variability as great as 20 % (Woolf et al., 2002). Sterl and Caires (2005), in their analysis of the ERA-40 global waves re-analysis, identified significant trends in wave height, particularly in the Southern Ocean, the North Atlantic and the North Pacific. These trends are more pronounced in the high quantiles, indicating that the large wave events are increasing at a greater rate than the mean. In the Southern Ocean, Sterl and Caires (2005) identified an increased number of Southern Ocean storms as the reason for the observed trend in the model record." 'g' [edit - sorry, muffed the formatting somehow]
Garth J Lancaster wrote:
indicating that the large wave events are increasing at a greater rate than the mean
Well, yeah. If nothing was ever greater than the mean, then the mean would be much lower. In fact, if nothing was ever greater than the mean, then everything would be constant and nothing would ever change - not even a little!
My current favourite word is: Delicious!
-SK Genius
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Garth J Lancaster wrote:
indicating that the large wave events are increasing at a greater rate than the mean
Well, yeah. If nothing was ever greater than the mean, then the mean would be much lower. In fact, if nothing was ever greater than the mean, then everything would be constant and nothing would ever change - not even a little!
My current favourite word is: Delicious!
-SK Genius
Dont be mean!
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
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Steve_Harris wrote:
Dalek Dave wrote: Snowball Earth Is far from universally accepted.
Neither is Evolution, but would you deny it?
Steve_Harris wrote:
It's the steroids in the water.
Yeah, that is why I live in a 'Hard' water area. (or possibly the Viagra in the water?)
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
Dalek Dave wrote:
Neither is Evolution, but would you deny it?
No palaeontological evidence disproves evolution, but some geological evidence currently disproves snowball earth, so yes, on the back of current evidence I would deny it.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Neither is Evolution, but would you deny it?
No palaeontological evidence disproves evolution, but some geological evidence currently disproves snowball earth, so yes, on the back of current evidence I would deny it.
I would suggest that the evidence would allow you to doubt it, but to deny it? That is a bit strong, for there is much evidence for it too.
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
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I would suggest that the evidence would allow you to doubt it, but to deny it? That is a bit strong, for there is much evidence for it too.
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
Isn't that the way of the scientific method Dave? Someone proposes a hypothesis, and it stays as feasible until evidence comes along which disproves it, then the hypothesis has to be amended or discarded. As evidence has come along to disprove the Snowball Earth hypothesis, how can one still consider it a possibility?
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Isn't that the way of the scientific method Dave? Someone proposes a hypothesis, and it stays as feasible until evidence comes along which disproves it, then the hypothesis has to be amended or discarded. As evidence has come along to disprove the Snowball Earth hypothesis, how can one still consider it a possibility?
Snowball Earth is being re analysed to become Slushy Earth! (No Shit)
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
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Calls in Solomon Islands for relocation talks to start[^] Sikiana, Lord Howe (also known as Ontong Java) and Pelau - three very small islands barely above sea level are looking very likely that they'll need at least part of their populations resettled. I just saw footage from Lord Howe that was a lot more serious than "garden's being flooded". The island's are being eroded by the rising sea levels at a really rapid rate.
I just love Koalas - they go great with Bacon.
The biggest problem is subsidence, not sea levels rising (the actual sea level rise has been very slight, if at all, and not at all rapid.) This affects most volcanic islands and quite a few other places (many of which incorrectly blame rising sea levels.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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The biggest problem is subsidence, not sea levels rising (the actual sea level rise has been very slight, if at all, and not at all rapid.) This affects most volcanic islands and quite a few other places (many of which incorrectly blame rising sea levels.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Quite true - One factor that does seem to be different though are changes to wave patterns and actions. It also does seem surprising that so many islands and areas of reclaimed land across a broad variety of places on earth are experiencing subsidence and other problems simultaneously.
I just love Koalas - they go great with Bacon.
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Quite true - One factor that does seem to be different though are changes to wave patterns and actions. It also does seem surprising that so many islands and areas of reclaimed land across a broad variety of places on earth are experiencing subsidence and other problems simultaneously.
I just love Koalas - they go great with Bacon.
Lee Humphries wrote:
It also does seem surprising that so many islands and areas of reclaimed land across a broad variety of places on earth are experiencing subsidence and other problems simultaneously.
Not surprising at all--declare a problem and suddenly everyone notices. Put money behind it (i.e. lawsuits, foreign aid) and everyone notices even more. (With enough money, the incentive to create a problem where none existed can become irresistible.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke