GW? Go on then use incorrect evidence and bad science.

R Giskard Reventlov

Sadly that bullshit evidence is going to cost money and it's the likes of you and I that will be paying for it for a long time.

me, me, me

Christian Graus

I have friends who work for CSIRO, who are far from alarmist about GW, but who have known for some time that it's happening. People like you, who claim that one error means it's all lies, are as bad as the alarmists who claim the sky is falling at every opportunity.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Dalek Dave

Christian Graus wrote:

one error

? Many Errors, Miscalulations, Invention of Evidence and Downright Lies. The Pro GW lobby has NEVER been able to provide ANY peer reviewed, unambiguous proof of ANY of it's claims. Every claim they make is subject to many questions regarding accuracy and context. I am not denying there are fluctuations in climate conditions, but why the furore over global warming when we are actually in an Ice Age, and most of Earths History is during NON ICE AGES.

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

Lost User

Christian Graus wrote:

who have known for some time that it's happen

Yes since 1750, when we came out of the LIE through totally natural causes.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Christian Graus

Dalek Dave wrote:

Many Errors, Miscalulations, Invention of Evidence and Downright Lies.

perhaps

Dalek Dave wrote:

The Pro GW lobby has NEVER been able to provide ANY peer reviewed, unambiguous proof of ANY of it's claims.

I don't believe this. Like I said, I know people who have access to raw data, and they have known for some time that the earth is warming.

Dalek Dave wrote:

when we are actually in an Ice Age,

We are warming in part because we're on the tail end of one, yes. I didn't one vote you, BTW.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Christian Graus

Yes, this is definitely a factor ( just read a book on it, actually ).

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

John Carson

Yeah, shrewd move. Ignore what the majority of the world's experts say, and put your faith in an unqualified journalist, refutations of whose nonsense are readily available to anyone who can Google. Sometimes I despair for the world.

John Carson

Dalek Dave

Christian Graus wrote:

I didn't one vote you, BTW.

I didn't assume you did.

Christian Graus wrote:

Dalek Dave wrote: The Pro GW lobby has NEVER been able to provide ANY peer reviewed, unambiguous proof of ANY of it's claims. I don't believe this. Like I said, I know people who have access to raw data, and they have known for some time that the earth is warming.

I am not denial the 'Evidence' of warming, I cannot however see any evidence that anything we do can alter it. There is also 'Evidence' of cooling, and I am just as sceptical of that. True science needs cold facts laid out in an objective way, where not only the data is shown, but the source of that data can be interogated and questioned. All 'Models and Simulations' should be freely analysed too, something that the GW lot have frequently refused. Why I wonder? If GW exists, we deal with it, if it is shown to be false, who will believe scientists the next time something bad happens. Crying Wolf is dangerous.

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

soap brain

Meh.

Dalek Dave

John Carson wrote:

Ignore what the majority of the world's experts say

Who are these experts? What do they say? Please provide proof that there is GW, the world is waiting! Why is Arctic sea Ice covering a bigger area today than 30 years ago? Why are most of the world glaciers expanding? Why is the sun producing an increasing amout of enery? Why is our axial shift bringing us into a more temperate climate? Why are people thinking that Humans are capable of doing this, when ONE VOLCANO could put more shit into the air than Human Beings could manage in a Century!

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

Christian Graus

Dalek Dave wrote:

I am not denial the 'Evidence' of warming, I cannot however see any evidence that anything we do can alter it.

OK, well, in that I perhaps agree. It's probable that at least some warming that is occuring is natural, the mix of what is man made or not, is not clear, and the GW lobby seems ignorant of the possibility that temperatures can just change naturally. I also would agree that it's not clear therefore how much we can hope to do about it. I sure don't think the seas are about to drown us, or any of the other more alarmist claims flying around.

Dalek Dave wrote:

All 'Models and Simulations' should be freely analysed too, something that the GW lot have frequently refused

I've not read anything on this at all. I would be scared to ask for links, b/c there's so much polarised opinion out there that it's hard to get to the facts.

Dalek Dave wrote:

If GW exists, we deal with it, if it is shown to be false, who will believe scientists the next time something bad happens. Crying Wolf is dangerous.

We as a species, always cry wolf. Each generation has it's prophets of doom.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

hairy_hats

Dalek Dave wrote:

Why is our axial shift bringing us into a more temperate climate?

We go from winter to summer every year Dave...thought you might have noticed by now... ;)

Dalek Dave

:) I know all about that, I mean that the precession is causing us to wobble on our axis, and that is partially to do with the changes. We are nearer the sun in winter, and further away in summer, but the (admittedly Very) slight alteration each year means that the axis alters over time. If we had summer when we were nearer the sun, That would be a major disater! It is useful that we don't given that at this period in earth history, 80 percent of the inhabited land is in the northern hemisphere.

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

hairy_hats

Dalek Dave wrote:

We are nearer the sun in winter, and further away in summer, but the (admittedly Very) slight alteration each year means that the axis alters over time. If we had summer when we were nearer the sun, That would be a major disater!

Like they have summer in Australia when we are closer to the Sun, that is a major disaster?

soap brain

Tell me, do you - or anyone else - believe that it's possible to separate fact from fabrication any more?

Dalek Dave

Not really thought about that have you? Look at central Aus, imagine that across Europe and Asia. Imagine Africa drier than it is now. USA can barely cope with water supply as it is without major (Multi-Billion) infrastructure investment. And Australia is a small continent, Eurasian plate is massive, it would be a dustbowl in summer, and Smegging Cold throught winter. The currents would alter, both air and sea, it could cause massive fish depopulation, thus also bird depopulation, mass starvaion, breakdown of society etc. And this could happen tomorrow too if a huge volcanoe goes off, so much for mankind, nature can really f*ck us over.

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

Dalek Dave

Yes, journalism does, it seperates the wheat from the chaff, then publishes the chaff! Only in mathematics is there truth.

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

hairy_hats

Precession takes 26,000 years to do a complete circuit, if it caused such a massive environmental disaster that regularly then I doubt we'd have the rich ecosystem we do today.

Dalek Dave

Ok, but also the 11 year solar cycle,the hale cycle (22yrs), the 90 years (Glassberg I think) and the 200 year and 2000 year cycles, ( Can't remember names). These all combine differently. There is that fact that the earth's orbit is always varying, as well as precession, and that the earh itself is dynamic, producing differing amouts of volcanic gases and particulates year on year. It is IMPOSSIBLE to predict this stuff.

------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke

soap brain

Either your post was expressly engineered to resist a decent response, or this headache is really getting to me. :( .