Contrary to popular opinion I really like MEF
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I have just started playing with making a version 2 of a web app I have done for some companies. Earlier versions used a hand-coded ADO.NET layer. Since there will be a lot of changes in the new version I am playing a bit with MEF (Microsoft Entity Framework) in order to decide whether to use it or not. Although it has got a lot of flack in the "press", I must say I really really like it. Granted it is not perfect, but I already fell more productive. The best is not having to write SQL in strings, but having compile time checking of Ling (to Entities). That is awesome. Anyway, just thought I give it a positive review since it's been dissed a lot.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand -
I have just started playing with making a version 2 of a web app I have done for some companies. Earlier versions used a hand-coded ADO.NET layer. Since there will be a lot of changes in the new version I am playing a bit with MEF (Microsoft Entity Framework) in order to decide whether to use it or not. Although it has got a lot of flack in the "press", I must say I really really like it. Granted it is not perfect, but I already fell more productive. The best is not having to write SQL in strings, but having compile time checking of Ling (to Entities). That is awesome. Anyway, just thought I give it a positive review since it's been dissed a lot.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn RandLet us know when you migrated the whole thing to linq, I'm curious about how it turns out! Will the performance drop and peculiarities be worth the productivity gain? Normally I'd be inclined just to pick the technology resulting in the best user experience, so if ado.net is that much faster, then to me the programmer experience has lower priority. EDIT: it's post like these that give me the impression that Linq to Entities and Linq to SQL (already obsoleted) were rushed out and not production level yet: http://blogs.msdn.com/adonet/archive/2008/12/02/migrating-from-linq-to-sql-to-the-entity-framework-stored-procedures-for-data-retrieval.aspx[^]. I'm gonna stay clear from all of it until .NET 4.0 at least.
Wout
modified on Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:27 AM
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I have just started playing with making a version 2 of a web app I have done for some companies. Earlier versions used a hand-coded ADO.NET layer. Since there will be a lot of changes in the new version I am playing a bit with MEF (Microsoft Entity Framework) in order to decide whether to use it or not. Although it has got a lot of flack in the "press", I must say I really really like it. Granted it is not perfect, but I already fell more productive. The best is not having to write SQL in strings, but having compile time checking of Ling (to Entities). That is awesome. Anyway, just thought I give it a positive review since it's been dissed a lot.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn RandLinq2SQL already does that well, without all the fluff :)
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 beta 2 - out now!
((lambda (x) `((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) '`((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) -
Linq2SQL already does that well, without all the fluff :)
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 beta 2 - out now!
((lambda (x) `((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) '`((lambda (x) ,x) ',x))Yeah, but Microsoft likes to abandon decent (and widely used) technologies. Take unmanaged C++ for instance...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Yeah, but Microsoft likes to abandon decent (and widely used) technologies. Take unmanaged C++ for instance...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Take unmanaged C++ for instance...
Unless the standards body updates the C++ spec (which seems they are doing), what is the point of updating the C++ compiler (bar bug fixes)? I'm sure you could probably still write programs for Vista in MS VC6. You try writing a .NET 3.5 program with VS2002 :)
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 beta 2 - out now!
((lambda (x) `((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) '`((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) -
I have just started playing with making a version 2 of a web app I have done for some companies. Earlier versions used a hand-coded ADO.NET layer. Since there will be a lot of changes in the new version I am playing a bit with MEF (Microsoft Entity Framework) in order to decide whether to use it or not. Although it has got a lot of flack in the "press", I must say I really really like it. Granted it is not perfect, but I already fell more productive. The best is not having to write SQL in strings, but having compile time checking of Ling (to Entities). That is awesome. Anyway, just thought I give it a positive review since it's been dissed a lot.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn RandYou realize "MEF" stands for the Managed Extensibility Framework[^]?
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Take unmanaged C++ for instance...
Unless the standards body updates the C++ spec (which seems they are doing), what is the point of updating the C++ compiler (bar bug fixes)? I'm sure you could probably still write programs for Vista in MS VC6. You try writing a .NET 3.5 program with VS2002 :)
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 beta 2 - out now!
((lambda (x) `((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) '`((lambda (x) ,x) ',x))I don't think you are grasping what I'm saying. MS has all but abandoned unmanaged C++ despite promise after promise of strengthening the IDE in that genre. Truth be told, they have no intent on doing anything to further support the language. At least with Linq, they've admitted up front that there is no future in it.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I have just started playing with making a version 2 of a web app I have done for some companies. Earlier versions used a hand-coded ADO.NET layer. Since there will be a lot of changes in the new version I am playing a bit with MEF (Microsoft Entity Framework) in order to decide whether to use it or not. Although it has got a lot of flack in the "press", I must say I really really like it. Granted it is not perfect, but I already fell more productive. The best is not having to write SQL in strings, but having compile time checking of Ling (to Entities). That is awesome. Anyway, just thought I give it a positive review since it's been dissed a lot.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn RandBy the time you are almost finished and spend 90% of your time on the 10% Microsoft will have dropped support and moved to something else. Personally, I have never minded writing SQL. You can do some pretty good stuff with it, fast.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States.
If you don't ask questions the answers won't stand in your way.
Doing a job is like selecting a mule, you can't choose just the front half xor the back half so when you ask me to do a job don't expect me to do it half-assed. -
By the time you are almost finished and spend 90% of your time on the 10% Microsoft will have dropped support and moved to something else. Personally, I have never minded writing SQL. You can do some pretty good stuff with it, fast.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States.
If you don't ask questions the answers won't stand in your way.
Doing a job is like selecting a mule, you can't choose just the front half xor the back half so when you ask me to do a job don't expect me to do it half-assed.Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Personally, I have never minded writing SQL. You can do some pretty good stuff with it, fast.
How fast when the 'DBA' changes the DB schema on a daily basis? Linq2SQL is a godsend for this...
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 beta 2 - out now!
((lambda (x) `((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) '`((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) -
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Personally, I have never minded writing SQL. You can do some pretty good stuff with it, fast.
How fast when the 'DBA' changes the DB schema on a daily basis? Linq2SQL is a godsend for this...
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 beta 2 - out now!
((lambda (x) `((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) '`((lambda (x) ,x) ',x))You can't build a bridge if God changes the river everyday either. While I don't mean to compare DBA's to God I do mean to say that poor change control dooms projects to failure. Linq2SQL and those other regenerative tools are great for companies that want to change what they want daily and never really get to a useful result. If the schema changes you must constantly chase down business rule changes and if your application does not use business rules and complicated logic there is no reason to even have code, use Access and Crystal and save millions. (I don't mean to say you, leppie, but you reader)
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States.
If you don't ask questions the answers won't stand in your way.
Doing a job is like selecting a mule, you can't choose just the front half xor the back half so when you ask me to do a job don't expect me to do it half-assed. -
You can't build a bridge if God changes the river everyday either. While I don't mean to compare DBA's to God I do mean to say that poor change control dooms projects to failure. Linq2SQL and those other regenerative tools are great for companies that want to change what they want daily and never really get to a useful result. If the schema changes you must constantly chase down business rule changes and if your application does not use business rules and complicated logic there is no reason to even have code, use Access and Crystal and save millions. (I don't mean to say you, leppie, but you reader)
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States.
If you don't ask questions the answers won't stand in your way.
Doing a job is like selecting a mule, you can't choose just the front half xor the back half so when you ask me to do a job don't expect me to do it half-assed.Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
I don't mean to say you, leppie
I know :) I would never tell anyone about it, if I did such silly things. ;P
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 beta 2 - out now!
((lambda (x) `((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) '`((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) -
I have just started playing with making a version 2 of a web app I have done for some companies. Earlier versions used a hand-coded ADO.NET layer. Since there will be a lot of changes in the new version I am playing a bit with MEF (Microsoft Entity Framework) in order to decide whether to use it or not. Although it has got a lot of flack in the "press", I must say I really really like it. Granted it is not perfect, but I already fell more productive. The best is not having to write SQL in strings, but having compile time checking of Ling (to Entities). That is awesome. Anyway, just thought I give it a positive review since it's been dissed a lot.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn RandI've not played with MEF, we use NHibernate, and I have to say that, now having used it enough and gaining a far better understanding of it's power, I've grown to like it. There is a considerable amount of power and flexibility in it, and you can roll your entire DAL in very short order.
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Let us know when you migrated the whole thing to linq, I'm curious about how it turns out! Will the performance drop and peculiarities be worth the productivity gain? Normally I'd be inclined just to pick the technology resulting in the best user experience, so if ado.net is that much faster, then to me the programmer experience has lower priority. EDIT: it's post like these that give me the impression that Linq to Entities and Linq to SQL (already obsoleted) were rushed out and not production level yet: http://blogs.msdn.com/adonet/archive/2008/12/02/migrating-from-linq-to-sql-to-the-entity-framework-stored-procedures-for-data-retrieval.aspx[^]. I'm gonna stay clear from all of it until .NET 4.0 at least.
Wout
modified on Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:27 AM
Yes it does have its issues - but overall I'm pleased so far. But then we don't have any stored procedures on this project so that makes it a bit easier. The problems I do have tho' are the following: 1. I can't see how it can work in a team situation with source control 2. The designer is crap. It really is.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand -
Linq2SQL already does that well, without all the fluff :)
xacc.ide - now with TabsToSpaces support
IronScheme - 1.0 beta 2 - out now!
((lambda (x) `((lambda (x) ,x) ',x)) '`((lambda (x) ,x) ',x))Well I wouldn't feel too safe building a project on an abandoned technology :):) (here I am crossing my fingers that they don't discontinue EF next year :))
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand -
You realize "MEF" stands for the Managed Extensibility Framework[^]?
No I did not. Was my post unclear? I meant the Entity Framework.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand -
By the time you are almost finished and spend 90% of your time on the 10% Microsoft will have dropped support and moved to something else. Personally, I have never minded writing SQL. You can do some pretty good stuff with it, fast.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States.
If you don't ask questions the answers won't stand in your way.
Doing a job is like selecting a mule, you can't choose just the front half xor the back half so when you ask me to do a job don't expect me to do it half-assed.I don't mind writing SQL per se. But I do feel much more productive with LINQ. And I'm tired of writing boilerplate DAL code. But each to his own :):)
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand -
I've not played with MEF, we use NHibernate, and I have to say that, now having used it enough and gaining a far better understanding of it's power, I've grown to like it. There is a considerable amount of power and flexibility in it, and you can roll your entire DAL in very short order.
Exactly. I have used NHibernate as well, and it really is quite powerful and flexible. No matter what O/R-Mapper one uses the productivity gain can be quite big. Time one can spend on the domain modeling instead.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand -
I have just started playing with making a version 2 of a web app I have done for some companies. Earlier versions used a hand-coded ADO.NET layer. Since there will be a lot of changes in the new version I am playing a bit with MEF (Microsoft Entity Framework) in order to decide whether to use it or not. Although it has got a lot of flack in the "press", I must say I really really like it. Granted it is not perfect, but I already fell more productive. The best is not having to write SQL in strings, but having compile time checking of Ling (to Entities). That is awesome. Anyway, just thought I give it a positive review since it's been dissed a lot.
"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, `Who is destroying the world?' You are."
-Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Randyou're lucky where i work i dotn even get to code in .net or c++ hardly ever last coding i did was some javascript stuff this week and here i am...working away on my MCSD :( Bryce
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
