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  4. Mortgage Bailout

Mortgage Bailout

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  • C Chris Austin

    Oakman wrote:

    I mean I know those folks on the left coast are divorced from reality but hasn't supply and demand kicked in yet?

    You would think so and in all honesty the prices are creeping down since they are ground-zero for foreclosures. But, homes are still expensive compared to even AZ and NV.

    Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

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    bulg
    wrote on last edited by
    #69

    have you driven through (AZ | NV)? There's a reason land is cheap there. I'm sure you could build a mansion in Lone Pine or Mojave, if you wanted. Fresno, too.

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    • B BoneSoft

      No. But I'll bet few payed enough in taxes to cover their mortgage. Tax payer in general, the collective pot that everybody's money went. Did that really deserve a 1?


      Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

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      Ed Gadziemski
      wrote on last edited by
      #70

      BoneSoft wrote:

      Did that really deserve a 1?

      I didn't think so. I didn't vote on it.

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      • C Chris Austin

        Ed Gadziemski wrote:

        No. Are you?

        No. But I should be. It seems that those of us who lived within our means will be punished. It pisses me off to no end that I (and my son) will be paying for the guy next door's house that is bigger and fancier than mine yet they have always made less than us and bragged about their credit card debt. It's not right.

        Ed Gadziemski wrote:

        o you live in one of the welfare states that sucks in more in Federal spending than they pay in Federal taxes? Federal Taxes Paid vs. Federal Spending Received by State, 1981-2005[^]

        I pay taxes in six states and what does it have to do with the price of tea in china?

        Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

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        Ed Gadziemski
        wrote on last edited by
        #71

        Chris Austin wrote:

        I (and my son) will be paying for the guy next door's house that is bigger and fancier than mine yet they have always made less than us and bragged about their credit card debt. It's not right.

        No, it's not. Many things in life are not right.

        Chris Austin wrote:

        I pay taxes in six states and what does it have to do with the price of tea in china?

        It gives you the right to complain about taxes if you want to. However, people in states Alabama that get Federal welfare by receiving more than they pay need to STFU. That includes Sen. Shelby and other jerks like him.

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        • 7 73Zeppelin

          I'm sorry Ed, but this doesn't quite wash with me. I worked in the industry that securitized these loans. I agree that the banking system is partly to blame for marketing unsecure products as AAA rated. However, this is securitization after the fact. That means that in order to securitize these products, the mortgages had to exist. That means Mr. Smith and his wife signed the dotted line on their mortgage agreement. By signing that agreement, they agreed to all terms and conditions contained therein. Ignorance isn't a defense in this case, and it's really easy to want to pin the blame on a third party. That's just a convenient way to absolve the mortgage holder from any responsibility. If you want to look for the root of the problem, then the chain of causality doesn't start with securitized mortgage products.

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          Ed Gadziemski
          wrote on last edited by
          #72

          73Zeppelin wrote:

          If you want to look for the root of the problem, then the chain of causality doesn't start with securitized mortgage products.

          I have no idea what you are talking about. I made no such claim. :confused:

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          • B bulg

            have you driven through (AZ | NV)? There's a reason land is cheap there. I'm sure you could build a mansion in Lone Pine or Mojave, if you wanted. Fresno, too.

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            Chris Austin
            wrote on last edited by
            #73

            bulg wrote:

            have you driven through (AZ | NV)? There's a reason land is cheap there. I'm sure you could build a mansion in Lone Pine or Mojave, if you wanted. Fresno, too.

            My goodness, you are not very bright. I am from Phoenix. I am also extremely aware that home values in the Phoenix metro area and many metro areas in Nevada skyrocketed over the last eight years in comparison to the rest of the country along with California and Florida. But, presently home values in Phoenix and Vegas have taken a substantial beating in comparison to those in the People's Republic of Cali. That was the point that Jon and I were discussing. Simply how Cali's prices are versus a few of it's neighboring states.

            Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

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            • B bulg

              Do you live in this country? Do you believe a government is necessary part of human civilization? Then you (tacitly) give your money to the government. If you truly didn't believe the government was necessary, you wouldn't. Every modern democracy has taxes. Taxes mean government. If you don't like it, go live somewhere you don't need government. I'm not going to define what government encompasses, suffice it to say that a lot of people who argue and make rules that you may not necessarily agree with go into it. But you take what you can get, because this is not a theoretical world.

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              Chris Austin
              wrote on last edited by
              #74

              Please. As you stated you know this is not a theoretical world. I made no value statement about the merit of taxes or government, just simply that we do not freely give it to the government; it is taken from us and with force if we object.

              Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

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              • C Christian Graus

                Stan Shannon wrote:

                Those are the only legitimate reasons to tax (and with schools the taxation should be purely a state/local concern)

                What about the fire service ? Ambulances ? The forest service ? The list goes on.

                Stan Shannon wrote:

                . Those who are dependent upon the same state they are voting for cannot possible cast a free vote. Its impossible. They are dependents.

                I tend to agree, and that's the problem with welfare, is that people will vote for whoever pays them the most. Personally, I think that those on the state's dime, should not be allowed to vote until they have a job and are paying taxes.

                Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

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                Stan Shannon
                wrote on last edited by
                #75

                Christian Graus wrote:

                What about the fire service ? Ambulances ? The forest service ? The list goes on.

                General Welfare - good. Targeted welfare that requires redistribution of wealth from one economic class to another - bad.

                Christian Graus wrote:

                I tend to agree, and that's the problem with welfare, is that people will vote for whoever pays them the most. Personally, I think that those on the state's dime, should not be allowed to vote until they have a job and are paying taxes.

                Than we agree completely.

                Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

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                • C Chris Austin

                  bulg wrote:

                  have you driven through (AZ | NV)? There's a reason land is cheap there. I'm sure you could build a mansion in Lone Pine or Mojave, if you wanted. Fresno, too.

                  My goodness, you are not very bright. I am from Phoenix. I am also extremely aware that home values in the Phoenix metro area and many metro areas in Nevada skyrocketed over the last eight years in comparison to the rest of the country along with California and Florida. But, presently home values in Phoenix and Vegas have taken a substantial beating in comparison to those in the People's Republic of Cali. That was the point that Jon and I were discussing. Simply how Cali's prices are versus a few of it's neighboring states.

                  Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

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                  bulg
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #76

                  Are you disagreeing with me that land in Ca. should in general be worth more than land in Az / Nv ? Because that's what I was saying. And I would bet that those places I mentioned have taken a land-value beating comparable to Az & Nv (in terms of years since they were worth what they are worth today), though I'm not going to look it up. Simply, that discussing such an issue on a state-wide level sounds like arm-chair philosophy, and that I would suggest the importance of climate & geography.

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                  • C Chris Austin

                    Please. As you stated you know this is not a theoretical world. I made no value statement about the merit of taxes or government, just simply that we do not freely give it to the government; it is taken from us and with force if we object.

                    Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

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                    bulg
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #77

                    I may have been totally off on the tone of your post then, I thought you were insinuating that you would withhold your taxes if you could when the government isn't doing what you want it to do. edit: However I disagree with your (now clear) thesis that we do not freely give to the government. You choose to live here means you choose to pay taxes and support the government. You can choose to leave, and not pay taxes. You cannot separate the choice you make to live & work here from the responsibilities that come w/ that choice.

                    modified on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:21 PM

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                    • S Synaptrik

                      OK, I'm curious. What has Jimmy Carter got to do with this current crisis? I'd say Clinton does more with the removal of the Glass-Steigal (sp?) act.

                      This statement is false

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                      BoneSoft
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #78

                      Carter started the Community Reinvestment Act, Clinton put it on steroids with his addition of the SubPrime Mortgage. Though I think it was fairly tame at the time and was probably set up to actually do some good (besides the fact that it was motivated primarily by an affirmative action mindset). I think activists pressing the issue were what really started to do damage, and the subprime just made it worse. CRA just opened the door for exploitation, some of which probably couldn't have been foreseen at the time. But it was the begining of the realization of the dream of getting people into homes who couldn't afford them.


                      Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

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                      • E Ed Gadziemski

                        BoneSoft wrote:

                        Did that really deserve a 1?

                        I didn't think so. I didn't vote on it.

                        B Offline
                        B Offline
                        BoneSoft
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #79

                        I didn't figure you did. It's my dedicated shadow.


                        Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

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                        • B bulg

                          Are you disagreeing with me that land in Ca. should in general be worth more than land in Az / Nv ? Because that's what I was saying. And I would bet that those places I mentioned have taken a land-value beating comparable to Az & Nv (in terms of years since they were worth what they are worth today), though I'm not going to look it up. Simply, that discussing such an issue on a state-wide level sounds like arm-chair philosophy, and that I would suggest the importance of climate & geography.

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                          Chris Austin
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #80

                          bulg wrote:

                          Simply, that discussing such an issue on a state-wide level sounds like arm-chair philosophy, and that I would suggest the importance of climate & geography.

                          Dude. You really need to read what I initially said. I was discussing affordability. It is my opinion that prices in CA are completely detached from reality regardless of the location. I am not arm-chair philosophizing about it, I have been knee deep in it since 96 when I moved to San Diego to work at QualCom (and moved 3 years later to work at TI). I still own a house in Rancho Bernardo that I rent out. Up until just last year I was constantly getting ridiculous offers from people who wanted to buy the house even though it wasn't for sale. People were buying homes there on 50 year notes that they still couldn't afford. I agree that the climate in a few places in CA is awesome but most of central and southern CA is identical to every other big city except you get a few beaches.

                          Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

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