So, whats up with Obama's anti-Brit attitude?

[Lost User]

Or even Thomas Paine [^], [^] who may have been the author of "African Slavery in America" which proposed the emancipation of African slaves and the abolition of slavery some years before the stance of Wilburforce.

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

How in God's name did you leap from the two articles to that conclusion?

I think this is a clear indication that 2 + 2 does equal four after all. These two have been actively involved in black liberation theology for decades. Now we see them acting in a way that is entirely consistent with those principles. They have a seething contempt for the historic associations of the United States, and they are going to express that contempt in every manner they possibly can.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Oakman]

John Carson wrote:

There was a limited press conference

Joh, I am not a fool and neither are you. Calling what happened a press conference is putting lipstick on a pig.

John Carson wrote:

I agree that the Administration has not been misstep free

Three potential senior officials, including two who would have been Geitner's top aids withdrew their names from consideration yesterday. Either they know something we don't know about working there, or Obama has a natural affinity for picking people who cannot stand the scrutiny that nomination brings. I sincerely hope that he does recover. For better or worse, he is the leader of the U.S. and arguably the most powerful man alive. The chance that we may have sent a boy to do a man's job (of course, the only semi-viable alternative was sending a geezer to do a man's job) concerns me greatly.

John Carson wrote:

Obama is very good at recovering from missteps.

He's very good at being forgiven, much like Reagan was.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Oakman]

Please show me a citation that proves that black liberation theology says that we should dis the P.M. of the UK. Then and only then can we discuss how much of your accusation is accurate and how much represents your antipathy towards non-wasps.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[John Carson]

Dalek Dave wrote:

Perhaps he should have a Statue of Sir William Wilburforce, the man who ended Slavery. (And an Englishman).

This whole discussion is based on the nonsense of people who believe Obama is anti-British based on no good evidence. As for Wilberforce, he was a very important figure in ending slavery thoughout most of the British Empire. He certainly didn't end it worldwide.

John Carson

[Oakman]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

He wants, and rightly, to make his mark on the place

This isn't about him; it's about the United States and the United Kingdom. It is far less important that he get a big chapter in the history books than that these countries pull out of the present funk in a way that allows them to continue to exist, long after Obama, Brown, you and I are in our graves.

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

old alliances may no longer be relevant.

Sounds like the advice a parent might give a 12-year-old girl heading off to middle school for the first time; I would prefer the leadsers of two great nations to act with just a little more maturity.

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

The European Union is a bigger political/economic force than the United Kingdom alone

The EU is, in my opinion, about as healthy and likely to survive as General Motors. They have already abandoned Eastern Europe and it appears that the only thing holding it together is the alliance between Merkle and Sarkozy. Any time you have to rely on the heads of Germany and France seeing eye to eye over the long haul, you are probably in trouble. Of course, that's my opinion, from the other side of the little puddle, and worth only what you paid for it. ;)

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[John Carson]

Oakman wrote:

Joh, I am not a fool and neither are you. Calling what happened a press conference is putting lipstick on a pig.

Perhaps in this area my knowledge is lacking. Are there some rules here about minimum length of time or something in order for questioning by journalists to qualify as a press conference? Is it the manner in which questioners were selected that bothers you? In my observation, the character of press conferences varies greatly. They are not always rambunctious affairs. In any event, the issue here was supposed to one of a snub to Brown. Thus the question is not whether or not it was a "press conference" by some definition, but whether it afforded Brown an appropriate opportunity to be seen in the company of the President answering questions. As someone ignorant of the ways of polite society, I can't comment with authority on the protocol here, but it is not obvious to me that any offence was committed.

Oakman wrote:

Three potential senior officials, including two who would have been Geitner's top aids withdrew their names from consideration yesterday. Either they know something we don't know about working there, or Obama has a natural affinity for picking people who cannot stand the scrutiny that nomination brings.

I don't have any hard data on how the dropout rate for Obama compares to that of earlier Presidents. People dropping out is certainly not new, e.g., Bill Clinton's first nominee for Attorney General dropped out. Moreover, the level of scrutiny seems to go up with each new President. See here: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1208025/looking_for_a_job_obamas_hiring.html?singlepage=true&cat=31[^]

Oakman wrote:

I sincerely hope that he does recover. For better or worse, he is the leader of the U.S. and arguably the most powerful man alive. The chance that we may have sent a boy to do a man's job (of course, the only semi-viable alternative was sending a geezer to do a man's job) concerns me greatly.

These are perilous times. A concern that Obama may not be up to it is natural, given the limited opportunities th

[Lost User]

The United States and the United Kingdom have had a long history dating back to the successful voyage of the Mayflower. Yet, we have had our little difficulties over these nearly 400 years. Because there now exists a first ever non-white inhabitant in the White House, that by itself will be a chapter in the history books together with whatever he accomplishes during his tenure. There have indeed been times when the relationship between our two countries have been strained. Not just the American War of Independence but other times when strife was being conducted on the world scene, and, to some extent, during the American Civil War where British neutrality was certainly tested. I have no doubt that the United States and the United Kingdom will continue to be friends but whether this friendship will be as close in the future as it was during, for instance, the Reagan/Thatcher era remains to be seen. Where I commented about old alliances and new friends. Just because our two countries have enjoyed a certain friendship does not mean that that friendship under Obama Presidency will remain at the fore. It is possible that some new friendship could usurp what exists. And yes, I have said similar to my daughters when they moved from school to school. Maturity comes from life experiences. Obama has only held his position a few weeks and is in a learning mode of sorts. So, give him time. The EU isn't just France and Germany. They are important players and yes, there are presently some strain with the newer former Soviet block countries, but that will be resolved sooner or later in some satisfactory way. But as these nations use a common currency - the Euro - they are that much more federated than they might accept. And because of the economic power shared by EU partners, they are a match in many respects for American economic power. Thus my observation that perhaps the first delegation to Obama's Administration should come from the EU rather than UK. But I understand your view that troubles could be ahead.

[Lost User]

Is it necessarily anti-Brit, could it be because: 1. It is an ugly lump of bronze? 2. Or, Epstein was Jewish, Churchill was pro-Zionist, and B. Hussein Obama is an Islamist? 3. Or, we wanted it back before all the valuables in the White House were pawned for the 10th AIG bailout?

Bob Emmett

[Oakman]

Bob Emmett wrote:

Or, we wanted it back before all the valuables in the White House were pawned for the 10th AIG bailout?

ROFL :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Mike Gaskey]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

Obama has only held his position a few weeks and is in a learning mode of sorts. So, give him time.

BO(ZO) is a fool, the markets have already made a judgement.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

[Lost User]

Mike Gaskey wrote:

BO(ZO) is a fool

Perhaps. Perhaps not. It is still early days.

Mike Gaskey wrote:

the markets have already made a judgement

And how many times have they been wrong compared to how many times they were right. But, how many times does fear, howsoever founded or unfounded, conjecture, and even loud startling noises because somebody slammed the door too hard, have caused a jittery market to make an ill-judgement.

[wolfbinary]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

It is still early days.

How long will it take for you to think it's past?

[Lost User]

Were you expecting miracles? I wasn't. But, you could ask me again in, say, 6 months time, and I may be able to give you an interim response worthy of consideration.

[Mike Gaskey]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

how many times does fear, howsoever founded or unfounded, conjecture, and even loud startling noises because somebody slammed the door too hard, have caused a jittery market to make an ill-judgement.

and how many time has that poor judgement lasted 3 months? check out the 3 month slide, ever since it became apparent that the Fool was hell bent on turning the US of A into a socialist heaven. the markets were right 3 months ago and continue to hold the same opinion.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

[Lost User]

If you were to ask John Carson or Zep they will confirm that the current economic fortunes besetting the world, not just the United States, were in the making well before Obama decided to run for POTUS. The United States may well have taken a leftward step but is nowhere close to being transformed into an essentially socialist country like France or Britain. As and when conditions are right, those markets will improve. Capitalism still rules in France or Britain as it will continue to do so in the United States of America.

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

Please show me a citation that proves that black liberation theology says that we should dis the P.M. of the UK.

I don't have to. The Obama's are long time parishioners of one of the leading black liberation theology churches in the country. It is their job to prove that they are not going to weave those principles into their public attitudes. They need to be extra cautious about anything that might be interpreted in that fashion. So far, they are not. Criticizing them for that is at least as legitimate as any criticism Bush got. And I intend to be doing a lot of it without providing any proof of any kind aside from my growing antipathy towards non-wasps (which is odd considering that I'm probably no more anglo-saxon than Obama is)

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Stan Shannon]

Clearly propadanda.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Lost User]

I thought that around a year ago that Obama left that particular church due to a falling out with the Reverend over remarks/sermons made. However, irrespective if that is true or not is not relevant to me or my interests and consequently, it is really none of my concern. Yet, if Obama has and pursues an anti-Brit attitude, then so be it. It may be his inexperience shining through, but what if it is not? But it is a strange way to influence people and make friends. Unless, as commented to Jon Oakman, Obama has another agenda that lies outside of the US/UK traditional friendship.

[Stan Shannon]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

But it is a strange way to influence people and make friends. Unless, as commented to Jon Oakman, Obama has another agenda that lies outside of the US/UK traditional friendship.

There is absolutely nothing mysterious about the guy. He is not a mainstream political figure. As his background demands, he is a radical leftist. He is the real deal. His agenda is to recreate the United States. He is openly saying so. That is what he intends to do. Separating us from our traditional associations, the U.K., Israel for examople, is an important part of doing that.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.