I sometimes despair of MS [modified Someone, sort of, agrees with me]
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Back in 2003 when I jumped the Delphi ship for C#, one of the first things I did was to read the Framework Design Guidelines, although I think it had a different name back then. As far as I could, for someone learning a new language, I tried to stick to those conventions. I have just started experimenting with Entity Framework, which seems to be a quite useful thing, and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated. How on earth do MS expect people to follow its guidelines when its own developers don't? Are they unaware of FXCop? I think MS should immediately adopt a policy for its own developers, that all code released should pass the FXCop test, and that includes generated code. I am not advocating that all developers should adopt this style, an ingrained C/C++ dev naturally falls into their familiar style, but there is no point in MS publishing standards if they don't follow them. [MOD] Just found this article[^] "But the way that the Windows 7 UAC "improvements" have been made completely exempts Microsoft's developers from having to do that work themselves. With Windows 7, it's one rule for Redmond, another one for everyone else." [/MOD]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
modified on Saturday, March 7, 2009 2:01 PM
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Back in 2003 when I jumped the Delphi ship for C#, one of the first things I did was to read the Framework Design Guidelines, although I think it had a different name back then. As far as I could, for someone learning a new language, I tried to stick to those conventions. I have just started experimenting with Entity Framework, which seems to be a quite useful thing, and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated. How on earth do MS expect people to follow its guidelines when its own developers don't? Are they unaware of FXCop? I think MS should immediately adopt a policy for its own developers, that all code released should pass the FXCop test, and that includes generated code. I am not advocating that all developers should adopt this style, an ingrained C/C++ dev naturally falls into their familiar style, but there is no point in MS publishing standards if they don't follow them. [MOD] Just found this article[^] "But the way that the Windows 7 UAC "improvements" have been made completely exempts Microsoft's developers from having to do that work themselves. With Windows 7, it's one rule for Redmond, another one for everyone else." [/MOD]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
modified on Saturday, March 7, 2009 2:01 PM
FX-Cop will drive you insane. I recommend that you don't use it.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
FX-Cop will drive you insane. I recommend that you don't use it.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
FX-Cop will drive you insane. I recommend that you don't use it
Oh I agree. I've tried it. Luckily I was already insane. I'm just saying MS should stick to their own guidelines. There was a thread here recently about the guidelines for Google, and you can bet your life they stick to them. MS is pretty much a free for all. If they want to stave off the advance of Google and the like, they have got to become more disciplined. Not that I care one way or the other if MS succeeds or not, but I don't want to have to start learning a whole new way of working, as I would if they go down the tubes.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Back in 2003 when I jumped the Delphi ship for C#, one of the first things I did was to read the Framework Design Guidelines, although I think it had a different name back then. As far as I could, for someone learning a new language, I tried to stick to those conventions. I have just started experimenting with Entity Framework, which seems to be a quite useful thing, and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated. How on earth do MS expect people to follow its guidelines when its own developers don't? Are they unaware of FXCop? I think MS should immediately adopt a policy for its own developers, that all code released should pass the FXCop test, and that includes generated code. I am not advocating that all developers should adopt this style, an ingrained C/C++ dev naturally falls into their familiar style, but there is no point in MS publishing standards if they don't follow them. [MOD] Just found this article[^] "But the way that the Windows 7 UAC "improvements" have been made completely exempts Microsoft's developers from having to do that work themselves. With Windows 7, it's one rule for Redmond, another one for everyone else." [/MOD]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
modified on Saturday, March 7, 2009 2:01 PM
Henry Minute wrote:
and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated.
Heh. You shouldn't even be looking at the generated code. Especially when the generated code is being driven by XML, hehe. You could, probably, generate your own FXCop-compliant code from the EDM's XML. :) Marc
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Henry Minute wrote:
and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated.
Heh. You shouldn't even be looking at the generated code. Especially when the generated code is being driven by XML, hehe. You could, probably, generate your own FXCop-compliant code from the EDM's XML. :) Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
You could, probably, generate your own FXCop-compliant code from the EDM's XML
That's probably true. It would certainly be quicker than attempting to do it in the Editor. I haven't got round to looking at the XML yet. However, that would get me off on another rant about the .NET code generation classes and their inability to, amongst other things, deal with line-breaks properly. :laugh: [MOD] BTW, I started my exploration of EF with your Intro to EF article. [/MOD]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Back in 2003 when I jumped the Delphi ship for C#, one of the first things I did was to read the Framework Design Guidelines, although I think it had a different name back then. As far as I could, for someone learning a new language, I tried to stick to those conventions. I have just started experimenting with Entity Framework, which seems to be a quite useful thing, and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated. How on earth do MS expect people to follow its guidelines when its own developers don't? Are they unaware of FXCop? I think MS should immediately adopt a policy for its own developers, that all code released should pass the FXCop test, and that includes generated code. I am not advocating that all developers should adopt this style, an ingrained C/C++ dev naturally falls into their familiar style, but there is no point in MS publishing standards if they don't follow them. [MOD] Just found this article[^] "But the way that the Windows 7 UAC "improvements" have been made completely exempts Microsoft's developers from having to do that work themselves. With Windows 7, it's one rule for Redmond, another one for everyone else." [/MOD]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
modified on Saturday, March 7, 2009 2:01 PM
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
A stance also taken by some most religious 'leaders'
There. I've fixed that for you.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
A stance also taken by some most religious 'leaders'
There. I've fixed that for you.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
I'm agnostic (not atheist) and have (some) faith in my fellow man. I also try not to have extreme viewpoints. That is why I said Some, not Most :)
Cheers, Vıkram.
Carpe Diem.
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I'm agnostic (not atheist) and have (some) faith in my fellow man. I also try not to have extreme viewpoints. That is why I said Some, not Most :)
Cheers, Vıkram.
Carpe Diem.
I too have faith in my fellow man, unless he is a man of faith. :) A case of the many being tainted by the actions of the few.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
A stance also taken by some most religious 'leaders'
There. I've fixed that for you.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Though I share Vikram's stance on deitical belief, I have to say you beat me to it. I believe in my fellow man, but I have lost faith in those so called religious leaders.
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Back in 2003 when I jumped the Delphi ship for C#, one of the first things I did was to read the Framework Design Guidelines, although I think it had a different name back then. As far as I could, for someone learning a new language, I tried to stick to those conventions. I have just started experimenting with Entity Framework, which seems to be a quite useful thing, and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated. How on earth do MS expect people to follow its guidelines when its own developers don't? Are they unaware of FXCop? I think MS should immediately adopt a policy for its own developers, that all code released should pass the FXCop test, and that includes generated code. I am not advocating that all developers should adopt this style, an ingrained C/C++ dev naturally falls into their familiar style, but there is no point in MS publishing standards if they don't follow them. [MOD] Just found this article[^] "But the way that the Windows 7 UAC "improvements" have been made completely exempts Microsoft's developers from having to do that work themselves. With Windows 7, it's one rule for Redmond, another one for everyone else." [/MOD]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
modified on Saturday, March 7, 2009 2:01 PM
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
A stance also taken by some most religious 'leaders'
There. I've fixed that for you.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Henry Minute wrote:
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:A stance also taken by some most religious 'leaders' There. I've fixed that for you.
Fixed it for both of you.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Good Link. Thanks! Now if only I could find a way to roll it up and beat them to a bloody pulp with it. :)
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Back in 2003 when I jumped the Delphi ship for C#, one of the first things I did was to read the Framework Design Guidelines, although I think it had a different name back then. As far as I could, for someone learning a new language, I tried to stick to those conventions. I have just started experimenting with Entity Framework, which seems to be a quite useful thing, and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated. How on earth do MS expect people to follow its guidelines when its own developers don't? Are they unaware of FXCop? I think MS should immediately adopt a policy for its own developers, that all code released should pass the FXCop test, and that includes generated code. I am not advocating that all developers should adopt this style, an ingrained C/C++ dev naturally falls into their familiar style, but there is no point in MS publishing standards if they don't follow them. [MOD] Just found this article[^] "But the way that the Windows 7 UAC "improvements" have been made completely exempts Microsoft's developers from having to do that work themselves. With Windows 7, it's one rule for Redmond, another one for everyone else." [/MOD]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
modified on Saturday, March 7, 2009 2:01 PM
I suspect a lot of this is due to churn, the penchant for hiring post graduates thinking they are smarter than everyone else and bored programmers who are either doing just enough to keep their jobs or trying to find excuses to do something new to pad their resume. Oops, I pretty much defined the industry as a whole. Back to Microsoft--at the very least, they need to find the guy or gal who does the dialogs for Visual Studio and give them a whipping. Then find the idiot who keeps rejected bug reports about badly designed dialogs in Visual Studio and invite them to try a different career.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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I suspect a lot of this is due to churn, the penchant for hiring post graduates thinking they are smarter than everyone else and bored programmers who are either doing just enough to keep their jobs or trying to find excuses to do something new to pad their resume. Oops, I pretty much defined the industry as a whole. Back to Microsoft--at the very least, they need to find the guy or gal who does the dialogs for Visual Studio and give them a whipping. Then find the idiot who keeps rejected bug reports about badly designed dialogs in Visual Studio and invite them to try a different career.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
the guy or gal who does the dialogs for Visual Studio and give them a whipping
Bit of a sore point?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Back in 2003 when I jumped the Delphi ship for C#, one of the first things I did was to read the Framework Design Guidelines, although I think it had a different name back then. As far as I could, for someone learning a new language, I tried to stick to those conventions. I have just started experimenting with Entity Framework, which seems to be a quite useful thing, and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated. How on earth do MS expect people to follow its guidelines when its own developers don't? Are they unaware of FXCop? I think MS should immediately adopt a policy for its own developers, that all code released should pass the FXCop test, and that includes generated code. I am not advocating that all developers should adopt this style, an ingrained C/C++ dev naturally falls into their familiar style, but there is no point in MS publishing standards if they don't follow them. [MOD] Just found this article[^] "But the way that the Windows 7 UAC "improvements" have been made completely exempts Microsoft's developers from having to do that work themselves. With Windows 7, it's one rule for Redmond, another one for everyone else." [/MOD]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
modified on Saturday, March 7, 2009 2:01 PM
Exactly what rules are you talking about?
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Exactly what rules are you talking about?
Just little things like: Do not use a prefix for member variables (_, m_, s_, etc.). If you want to distinguish between local and member variables you should use “this.” in C# and “Me.” in VB.NET. Do use camelCasing for member variables Do use camelCasing for parameters For some reason things like
private int _AnInt = 0; (should be - private anInt = 0; )
public int AnInt
{
get
{
return _AnInt; (should be - return this.anInt; )
}set { \_AnInt = value; (should be - this.anInt = value; ) }}
drive me ablolutely nutso. As I said previously I can understand that non-MS developers might use other conventions. MS, however, should stick to the rules that it published itself.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Just little things like: Do not use a prefix for member variables (_, m_, s_, etc.). If you want to distinguish between local and member variables you should use “this.” in C# and “Me.” in VB.NET. Do use camelCasing for member variables Do use camelCasing for parameters For some reason things like
private int _AnInt = 0; (should be - private anInt = 0; )
public int AnInt
{
get
{
return _AnInt; (should be - return this.anInt; )
}set { \_AnInt = value; (should be - this.anInt = value; ) }}
drive me ablolutely nutso. As I said previously I can understand that non-MS developers might use other conventions. MS, however, should stick to the rules that it published itself.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Are you talking about stylecop or fxcop? Fxcop does not inforce any rules on private members as is the case with you. Stylecop has an option that allows You to disable checking for generated code.
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Are you talking about stylecop or fxcop? Fxcop does not inforce any rules on private members as is the case with you. Stylecop has an option that allows You to disable checking for generated code.
You could be right. I may well be confusing the two. That does not, however, negate my point. If MS publishes rules for things like naming conventions and the like, it should stick to them.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Back in 2003 when I jumped the Delphi ship for C#, one of the first things I did was to read the Framework Design Guidelines, although I think it had a different name back then. As far as I could, for someone learning a new language, I tried to stick to those conventions. I have just started experimenting with Entity Framework, which seems to be a quite useful thing, and I am astonished at the divergence from its own standards in the code generated. How on earth do MS expect people to follow its guidelines when its own developers don't? Are they unaware of FXCop? I think MS should immediately adopt a policy for its own developers, that all code released should pass the FXCop test, and that includes generated code. I am not advocating that all developers should adopt this style, an ingrained C/C++ dev naturally falls into their familiar style, but there is no point in MS publishing standards if they don't follow them. [MOD] Just found this article[^] "But the way that the Windows 7 UAC "improvements" have been made completely exempts Microsoft's developers from having to do that work themselves. With Windows 7, it's one rule for Redmond, another one for everyone else." [/MOD]
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
modified on Saturday, March 7, 2009 2:01 PM
Henry Minute wrote:
With Windows 7, it's one rule for Redmond, another one for everyone else."
One O.S. to rule them all, one search to find them, one desktop to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]
