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  4. Oil -- EVIL; Nucular -- EVILER; Solar -- SAINTLY ... just NIMBY

Oil -- EVIL; Nucular -- EVILER; Solar -- SAINTLY ... just NIMBY

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Back Room
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  • L Lost User

    The problem is that there are too many opinionated people, entrenched in their beliefs, and not enough disinterested analysis of where it is preferable to incinerate, land-fill, or recycle on economic/environmental grounds. This will vary from location to location.

    Ilíon wrote:

    governmental bribes and compulsion

    If the preferred method of waste processing gives rise to an additional cost to a company, the company will naturally seek to avoid that cost. Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

    Bob Emmett

    L Offline
    L Offline
    Lost User
    wrote on last edited by
    #33

    Bob Emmett wrote:

    Government compensation or compulsion ...

    At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives [^]

    R L 2 Replies Last reply
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    • L Lost User

      The problem is that there are too many opinionated people, entrenched in their beliefs, and not enough disinterested analysis of where it is preferable to incinerate, land-fill, or recycle on economic/environmental grounds. This will vary from location to location.

      Ilíon wrote:

      governmental bribes and compulsion

      If the preferred method of waste processing gives rise to an additional cost to a company, the company will naturally seek to avoid that cost. Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

      Bob Emmett

      O Offline
      O Offline
      Oakman
      wrote on last edited by
      #34

      Bob Emmett wrote:

      Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

      As I pointed out above, "best practice" is open to interpretation. It would appear likely that if our present congress is any guide making large donations to the party in power may be "best practice."

      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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      • S Stan Shannon

        Oakman wrote:

        It was more restful when we both believed that Obama would govern from the center and argued about why he would do so.

        I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither. He seems to simply be randomly picking solutions from American history and relying on Pelosi to ram things through for him. And his ability to build an effective leadership team so far makes Bush look like U.S. Grant.

        Oakman wrote:

        Looking back, I think the only one who might have had a shot was Ron Paul.

        At the very least, with Paul, we would still have had something resembling America once the dust had settled.

        Oakman wrote:

        Better bet would be to put your librarian skills to use and begin to pack away a collection that would help you and your survive in the new stoneage. Who knows, you might find a bunch of kids in the desert and lead them to the promised land - or at least be remembered in all their tells.

        I'll just have to keep on the look out for large angry black women running pig farms as I wonder wander the wastelands with my extensive collection of material on the southern colonies.

        Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

        M Offline
        M Offline
        Mike Gaskey
        wrote on last edited by
        #35

        Stan Shannon wrote:

        I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither.

        he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

        Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

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        • L Lost User

          Bob Emmett wrote:

          Government compensation or compulsion ...

          At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives [^]

          R Offline
          R Offline
          Rob Graham
          wrote on last edited by
          #36

          Richard A. Abbott wrote:

          At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives [^]

          That's on next years agenda for Obama, Pelosi, Reid & Co.

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          • O Oakman

            Bob Emmett wrote:

            Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

            As I pointed out above, "best practice" is open to interpretation. It would appear likely that if our present congress is any guide making large donations to the party in power may be "best practice."

            Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

            L Offline
            L Offline
            Lost User
            wrote on last edited by
            #37

            Oakman wrote:

            making large donations to the party in power may be "best practice."

            Far more likely than the "best practice" arising from the disinterested analysis I had in mind. :sigh:

            Bob Emmett

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            • L Lost User

              Bob Emmett wrote:

              Government compensation or compulsion ...

              At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives [^]

              L Offline
              L Offline
              Lost User
              wrote on last edited by
              #38

              Richard A. Abbott wrote:

              At least the Americans don't have to worry about complying with EU directives

              The directives are not all bad. Certainly the construction and management of landfill sites in the UK has improved since the directive. However statements like: "As costs of waste disposal at landfill rise and operators pass on the costs of meeting the requirement to producers - then there will be an increased incentive for those producers to reduce those costs by minimising the amount of waste they produce or recycling or re-using that which they do.", show a complete disregard of the propensity of companies to find cheaper (illegal) alternatives. But that's DEFRA not the EU.

              Bob Emmett

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              • M Mike Gaskey

                Stan Shannon wrote:

                I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither.

                he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

                G Offline
                G Offline
                Gary Kirkham
                wrote on last edited by
                #39

                No surprises with me either. I guess some were expecting Bill Clinton II. Things will get much worse, but then these are the signs of the times. From a religious point of view, I am more and more convinced that Christ's return is imminent.

                Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read

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                • G Gary Kirkham

                  No surprises with me either. I guess some were expecting Bill Clinton II. Things will get much worse, but then these are the signs of the times. From a religious point of view, I am more and more convinced that Christ's return is imminent.

                  Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read

                  O Offline
                  O Offline
                  Oakman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #40

                  Gary Kirkham wrote:

                  From a religious point of view, I am more and more convinced that ever that Christ's return is imminent.

                  But isn't He supposed to return only after the antiChrist has revealed Himself? You're not saying that Son of the Father of Lies walks among us now, are you? . . . Wait - that's what Troy called me! :omg:

                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                  • M Mike Gaskey

                    Stan Shannon wrote:

                    I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither.

                    he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                    Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

                    I Offline
                    I Offline
                    Ilion
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #41

                    Mike Gaskey wrote:

                    he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                    I agree -- he is someone who does not love America and despises its traditions; (and, regardless of where he was actually born) does not in his heart-of-hearts consider himself to be an American, and considers himself better than "the average" American. He's a leftist.

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                    • L Lost User

                      Ilíon wrote:

                      "liberals" shooting down their own panaceas.

                      Er. Environmentalists are conservatives, they seek to preserve the existing order.

                      Bob Emmett

                      I Offline
                      I Offline
                      Ilion
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #42

                      Bob Emmett wrote:

                      Ilíon: ..."liberals" shooting down their own panaceas. Bob Emmett: Er. Environmentalists are conservatives, they seek to preserve the existing order.

                      What a stultifyingly "liberal" expression of ignorance.

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                      • I Ilion

                        Mike Gaskey wrote:

                        he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                        I agree -- he is someone who does not love America and despises its traditions; (and, regardless of where he was actually born) does not in his heart-of-hearts consider himself to be an American, and considers himself better than "the average" American. He's a leftist.

                        O Offline
                        O Offline
                        Oakman
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #43

                        Ilíon wrote:

                        He's a leftist.

                        Don't you consider Ayn Rand to be a leftist?

                        Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                        • C Christian Graus

                          I guess that means that it makes sense to you, but not enough for you to be willing to explain it.

                          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

                          I Offline
                          I Offline
                          Ilion
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #44

                          Christian Graus wrote:

                          I guess that means that it makes sense to you, but not enough for you to be willing to explain it.

                          We both know that you made little to no effort to understand. I speculate that that is because you're "liberal" -- you imagine that cost and benefit analysis is "immoral."

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                          • L Lost User

                            The problem is that there are too many opinionated people, entrenched in their beliefs, and not enough disinterested analysis of where it is preferable to incinerate, land-fill, or recycle on economic/environmental grounds. This will vary from location to location.

                            Ilíon wrote:

                            governmental bribes and compulsion

                            If the preferred method of waste processing gives rise to an additional cost to a company, the company will naturally seek to avoid that cost. Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

                            Bob Emmett

                            I Offline
                            I Offline
                            Ilion
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #45

                            Bob Emmett wrote:

                            Ilíon: ... governmental bribes and compulsion ... Bob Emmett: If the preferred method of waste processing gives rise to an additional cost to a company, the company will naturally seek to avoid that cost. Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

                            Preferred ... by whom? And why? If it is "best practice" then why does it always seem to need to be compelled? You've attempted to change the subject.

                            L 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • O Oakman

                              Gary Kirkham wrote:

                              From a religious point of view, I am more and more convinced that ever that Christ's return is imminent.

                              But isn't He supposed to return only after the antiChrist has revealed Himself? You're not saying that Son of the Father of Lies walks among us now, are you? . . . Wait - that's what Troy called me! :omg:

                              Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                              M Offline
                              M Offline
                              Mike Gaskey
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #46

                              Oakman wrote:

                              isn't He supposed to return only after the antiChrist has revealed Himself?

                              November, 2008 Last week on Leno and again this Tuesday night Pay attention!

                              Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

                              O 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • M Mike Gaskey

                                Oakman wrote:

                                isn't He supposed to return only after the antiChrist has revealed Himself?

                                November, 2008 Last week on Leno and again this Tuesday night Pay attention!

                                Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

                                O Offline
                                O Offline
                                Oakman
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #47

                                Mike Gaskey wrote:

                                Pay attention!

                                Oh you silly! He's not the antiChrist. At least not until he appears on "Countdown with Keith Olbernut"

                                Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                • O Oakman

                                  Gary Kirkham wrote:

                                  From a religious point of view, I am more and more convinced that ever that Christ's return is imminent.

                                  But isn't He supposed to return only after the antiChrist has revealed Himself? You're not saying that Son of the Father of Lies walks among us now, are you? . . . Wait - that's what Troy called me! :omg:

                                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                  G Offline
                                  G Offline
                                  Gary Kirkham
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #48

                                  Hmmm...do you have any strange numbers stamped on your forehead?

                                  Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read

                                  O 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • G Gary Kirkham

                                    Hmmm...do you have any strange numbers stamped on your forehead?

                                    Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read

                                    O Offline
                                    O Offline
                                    Oakman
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #49

                                    Gary Kirkham wrote:

                                    Hmmm...do you have any strange numbers stamped on your forehead?

                                    Nope, but when I lived in New Jersey I had P.O. Box 666. (really)

                                    Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • I Ilion

                                      Bob Emmett wrote:

                                      Ilíon: ..."liberals" shooting down their own panaceas. Bob Emmett: Er. Environmentalists are conservatives, they seek to preserve the existing order.

                                      What a stultifyingly "liberal" expression of ignorance.

                                      L Offline
                                      L Offline
                                      Lost User
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #50

                                      Ilíon wrote:

                                      What a stultifyingly "liberal" expression of ignorance.

                                      Not at all. Environmentalists wish to conserve (or restore) the natural environment. They are conservatives. This desire to conserve may bring them into conflict with government and business. For example: protesting against a stretch of highway that will eradicate the habitat of the Great Crested Newt (Triturus cristatus). As the government and the contractor have the law on their side, so some form of obstructive protest may take place. This might be termed a "liberal" political activity (especially in the USA), as they feel themselves not to be bound by the conventions of democratic government. Thus a person may be both a conservative and a liberal.

                                      Bob Emmett

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                                      • M Mike Gaskey

                                        Stan Shannon wrote:

                                        I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither.

                                        he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                                        Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

                                        S Offline
                                        S Offline
                                        Stan Shannon
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #51

                                        Mike Gaskey wrote:

                                        he is exactly what he appeared to be during the campaign.

                                        ANd that is sort of what surprises me. I honestly thought the man would try to position himself as a centrist and let congress take the lead in moving the country to the left. Instead, if any thing, he is trying to out-compete them in doing so.

                                        Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • I Ilion

                                          Bob Emmett wrote:

                                          Ilíon: ... governmental bribes and compulsion ... Bob Emmett: If the preferred method of waste processing gives rise to an additional cost to a company, the company will naturally seek to avoid that cost. Government compensation or compulsion may be necessary to ensure that best practice is adhered to.

                                          Preferred ... by whom? And why? If it is "best practice" then why does it always seem to need to be compelled? You've attempted to change the subject.

                                          L Offline
                                          L Offline
                                          Lost User
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #52

                                          Ilíon wrote:

                                          Preferred ... by whom? And why?

                                          Best practice: A disinterested analysis of where it is preferable to incinerate, land-fill, or recycle on economic/environmental grounds.

                                          Ilíon wrote:

                                          If it is "best practice" then why does it always seem to need to be compelled?

                                          Because best practice may give rise to an additional cost to a company. (Public Health considerations may outweigh those of cost, say.) Naturally, the company will seek to avoid that cost by continuing its current practices. Thus legislation or compensation.

                                          Bob Emmett

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