White House report on Sadam Hussein
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Yeah, communism is a bad word by itself in the US. I think mindless, uncontrolled capitalism without means and without end is worst. Ultimately, all war is related to some economic profit. This is a time of economic crisis and the US will start a war against Iraq to bolster the weapon and oil industry. I do not like Sadaam. I, personally, would love to see a change of regime. But the point is that US cannot be a bully and tell everyone how to run their country. Nor can it make the UN redundant and try to rectify whatever it thinks is not "right". Iraq is merely a convenient whipping boy. The country, and Saddam Hussein, have been so thoroughly demonised by a pliant western media, and painted so completely as the Great Satan, that even if the Americans dropped a hydrogen bomb on Baghdad nobody would object. The modus operandi seems simple: whenever the US feels macho, bomb Iraq. There is no major political cost, just a bunch of dead Iraqis, and who cares about them, anyway? Bombing a country, putting a puppet regime and sucking all its resources will not end the war against terror. If I am a child growing up in Afghanistan and a stray US bomb killed my whole family...yes, I will hate US the rest of my life. Yes, you have sowed the seeds for another Osama. Well, just my two cents. Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
There is one think you forget, Nobody forced Iraq to invade Kuwait !! Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Yes, I have. Lived in China for 12 years. So, I am sure I have seen more of it than most of the people here. I am not saying that communism is a perfect system, I am saying that neither is Capitalism. It has its faults and whenever there will be an economic crisis, as it will be with the present framework, wars will happen. The big bully will push its weight. Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
pankajdaga wrote: Lived in China for 12 years So why did you left this paradise-on-earth country? Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
To some its a six-pack, to me it's a support group
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Communism, if we were all perfect little beings, would work very nicely. Everyone would help out and do their part, and split the profits, no greed, no regret, equality and harmony. However, we aren't perfect, we are greedy, we are not equal, in any fashion, and so the forced system of a common class working and some higher class making sure they do their "fair share", just will not work. Ever. If we were the perfect people that are needed to have communism run properly, we wouldn't need government in the first place. BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}
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Chris Losinger wrote: i think the difference is that people assume israel wouldn't use nukes as an offensive weapon (ie. not in an unprovoked first-strike), while they apparently think saddam would. Are they right? What about this: Israel will not use nukes because it is very closed to US. We know(?) US has never used nukes as an offensive weapon.
Samsung wrote: We know(?) US has never used nukes as an offensive weapon We didn't use nukes as offensive weapons. We used them as stategic weapons. There is a BIG difference. Our use of the two bombs on Japan saved many thousands of lives, both Japanese and American. Of course that fact never comes up when the anti-everything crowd starts preaching. Based on American casualities on other Pacific operations it was thought that Allied losses would be in excess of 200000 if we had to invade the Japanese home islands and that Japanese losses could have been as high as 1000000. Lots of people are alive today because Harry DID THE RIGHT THING Richard We are called the nation of inventors. And we are. We could still claim that title and wear its loftiest honors if we had stopped with the first thing we ever invented, which was human liberty. Mark Twain- Foreign Critics speech, 1890
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Samsung wrote: Everything has bad and good side, even communism. Depends on your viewpoint. If the lion is eating you its good from the lions point of view but there is nothing good about it from yours. If you want to study communism thats good - its like studing a polio virus - but if you have to live under that type of Govt, its a lot more like having polio. Abstraction makes the heart grow fonder I guess. Richard We are called the nation of inventors. And we are. We could still claim that title and wear its loftiest honors if we had stopped with the first thing we ever invented, which was human liberty. Mark Twain- Foreign Critics speech, 1890
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On the issue of weapons of mass destruction etc., I was reading an interview with Nelson Mandela of S. Africa on NewsWeek yesterday.. Q. What about the argument that’s being made about the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction and Saddam’s efforts to build a nuclear weapons. After all, he has invaded other countries, he has fired missiles at Israel. On Thursday, President Bush is going to stand up in front of the United Nations and point to what he says is evidence of... A. …Scott Ritter, a former United Nations arms inspector who is in Baghdad, has said that there is no evidence whatsoever of [development of weapons of] mass destruction. Neither Bush nor [British Prime Minister] Tony Blair has provided any evidence that such weapons exist. But what we know is that Israel has weapons of mass destruction. Nobody talks about that. The complete interview is here: http://www.msnbc.com/news/806174.asp[^] What do you think? // Fazlul
I'm sure Israel has weapons of mass destruction. In their defense, they are greatly outnumbered by Arab states that hate them, so it does serve a legitimate deterent role. Personally, I feel more confident that Israel isn't going to use them (or threaten to use them) than Saddam. Although, I can understand the Arab perspective that it seems unfair. Ultimately, I don't think it's a matter of "it's okay for Jews to have nukes, it's not okay for Arabs to have them". Rather, Iraqi leadership and stability is different from Israeli leadership and stability. History backs this up. Israel has supposedly had nukes since 1973 (I think). Israel has never used them and it hasn't threatened to use them. (In fact, it hasn't publicly admitted that it has them. Maybe it doesn't, but allows people to believe that they exist - as a deterent to Arab nations. Maybe I'm being deceived when I say that I think Israel has them.) As far as Scott Ritter is concerned, when I listen to him talk, I get the feeling that he is concerned about the short-term goal of getting weapons inspectors back in the country. But, let's say that Saddam actually cooperates (he hasn't totally cooperated in the past). Let's say that Iraq is declared empty of WMD. The sanctions are lifted, the inspectors leave (or are kicked out), and Saddam resumes weapons programs. What then? It seems clear that Scott Ritter has no long-term ideas for Iraq. I think this is partly due to his training as a marine. His job as a marine is to get a job done. When it's done, he doesn't worry about the long-term results. He is only interested in getting the job done in the here-and-now. I think that same mentality is coming out in his approach to Iraq. He seems to say, "We need to get inspectors back in Iraq" because that's what his superiors told him. He's not thinking about long-term strategies for Iraq. It's also interesting to note the degree to which Saddam was able to hide is nuclear weapons program from inspectors. When Saddam's son-in-law defected and told them how much information they were missing and how Saddam has implemented a huge program to hide his WMD programs from inspectors, Saddam produced huge amounts of documentation of a nuclear weapons program (which he claimed was being done by Saddam's son-in-law without his knowledge). Inspectors were amazed how much information Saddam had hidden. They also discovered (from gaps in the documentation) that they were still missing large and important portions of documentation. So, when Sco
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Yeah, communism is a bad word by itself in the US. I think mindless, uncontrolled capitalism without means and without end is worst. Ultimately, all war is related to some economic profit. This is a time of economic crisis and the US will start a war against Iraq to bolster the weapon and oil industry. I do not like Sadaam. I, personally, would love to see a change of regime. But the point is that US cannot be a bully and tell everyone how to run their country. Nor can it make the UN redundant and try to rectify whatever it thinks is not "right". Iraq is merely a convenient whipping boy. The country, and Saddam Hussein, have been so thoroughly demonised by a pliant western media, and painted so completely as the Great Satan, that even if the Americans dropped a hydrogen bomb on Baghdad nobody would object. The modus operandi seems simple: whenever the US feels macho, bomb Iraq. There is no major political cost, just a bunch of dead Iraqis, and who cares about them, anyway? Bombing a country, putting a puppet regime and sucking all its resources will not end the war against terror. If I am a child growing up in Afghanistan and a stray US bomb killed my whole family...yes, I will hate US the rest of my life. Yes, you have sowed the seeds for another Osama. Well, just my two cents. Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
pankajdaga wrote: US will start a war against Iraq to bolster the weapon and oil industry. Another true believer in the long long list of idiots. We don't want a war with Iraq. We want to remove a tyrant from power. There is nothing in Iraq we couldn't get from somewhere else. If it was a true "war" it would last about 20 min and be over with. pankajdaga wrote: Bombing a country, putting a puppet regime and sucking all its resources will not end the war against terror Give me one example of this - one. Just who's resources are we "sucking" up? What "puppet" regime? And while it may not put and end to terror it will make other nation/states aware of the consequences of harboring terrorists or using terrorisim as a tool and this will go a long way to ending the practice. pankajdaga wrote: I will hate US the rest of my life. Yes, you have sowed the seeds for another Osama. And then we will kill you and then your childern can hate us and then we will kill them ad infinitum.. Or they will kill themselves trying to emulate their father. Who do you think will last the longest - your family line or the US. The insanity has to end some where either thru attrition or education. Richard We are called the nation of inventors. And we are. We could still claim that title and wear its loftiest honors if we had stopped with the first thing we ever invented, which was human liberty. Mark Twain- Foreign Critics speech, 1890
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pankajdaga wrote: US will start a war against Iraq to bolster the weapon and oil industry. Another true believer in the long long list of idiots. We don't want a war with Iraq. We want to remove a tyrant from power. There is nothing in Iraq we couldn't get from somewhere else. If it was a true "war" it would last about 20 min and be over with. pankajdaga wrote: Bombing a country, putting a puppet regime and sucking all its resources will not end the war against terror Give me one example of this - one. Just who's resources are we "sucking" up? What "puppet" regime? And while it may not put and end to terror it will make other nation/states aware of the consequences of harboring terrorists or using terrorisim as a tool and this will go a long way to ending the practice. pankajdaga wrote: I will hate US the rest of my life. Yes, you have sowed the seeds for another Osama. And then we will kill you and then your childern can hate us and then we will kill them ad infinitum.. Or they will kill themselves trying to emulate their father. Who do you think will last the longest - your family line or the US. The insanity has to end some where either thru attrition or education. Richard We are called the nation of inventors. And we are. We could still claim that title and wear its loftiest honors if we had stopped with the first thing we ever invented, which was human liberty. Mark Twain- Foreign Critics speech, 1890
Another true believer in the long long list of idiots. We don't want a war with Iraq. We want to remove a tyrant from power. There is nothing in Iraq we couldn't get from somewhere else. If it was a true "war" it would last about 20 min and be over with. Oh wow! Another bloody misguided soul who thinks that US has the hand of God to remove or put tyrants to run countries. Grow out of your shell and start learning about other side of the planet. The evidence against Iraq supporting terrorists (especially the Sept. 11 terrorists) is flimsy at best. Countries like Pakistan has more links to Al-Qaida and the likes than Iraq. And then we will kill you and then your childern can hate us and then we will kill them ad infinitum.. Or they will kill themselves trying to emulate their father. Who do you think will last the longest - your family line or the US. The insanity has to end some where either thru attrition or education. Such comments are uncalled for. I am just saying that the roots of hatrad will not go away through mindless destruction. You cannot hold someone guilty until proven innocent. Same thing happened in Afghanistan. Forget Osama's children, you could not even get the man and killed thousand innocents instead and probably watered his family tree. So MORON, sorry to disappoint you, the hatrad will last much longer than US or people like you. Anyways, did not want to fuel a war. And I am sure all you supporters of FREE SPEECH AND FREEDOM that you have been harking about, would not mind me having a different view than yours. Or wait, true democracy means everyone has to agree with everyone. Forgot that for a sec.. Without struggle, there is no progress
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JohnJ wrote: Its going to need more "flesh on the bones" than a series of unsubstantiated statements Exactly what "proof" do you need ? Would maybe a nuke over London be enough proof ? Or maybe a little Sarin over Manchester ? And Uncle Adolph was not going to move on France either was he. He promised Mr. Chamberlain he wouldn't do it. He promised ! He promised ! The best defense is and always will be a good offense. Richard We are called the nation of inventors. And we are. We could still claim that title and wear its loftiest honors if we had stopped with the first thing we ever invented, which was human liberty. Mark Twain- Foreign Critics speech, 1890
Richard Stringer wrote: Exactly what "proof" do you need ? Me, none - if we had any sense we would have got rid of the sod in the Gulf War, but we didn't :confused: However in the UK the media and Politicians are in Mr. Chamberlain mode partly because the existing leadership does not have a good reputation for telling the plain truth. :mad: JohnJ :zzz::zzz:Sleep(28800000); :zzz::zzz: http://www.rainbow-innov.co.uk[^]
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Would the evidence you have seen be sufficient to you so that you would risk your life in a war against Iraq ? If you would be prepared to face possible death , then you have the moral justification in asking others to do so for you . If you wish to hide behind a TV screen and just watch Gulf War II on the 6 o'clock news then you do not. I for one would not want to go to War with Iraq based on the evidence I have seen . Granted , the mans a nutter , granted it would be better world without him , but I am not prepared to lay my life on the line for what appears to be highly subjective evidence and dubya scrabbling around for new ideas in the war against terror. I would have gone to Afgahnistan, I would have gone to the Gulf , I would have gone to the falklands , all worthy causes . But how can I ask someone else to risk their lives on my behalf if I would not be prepared to do it myself ? Oh no, you can't fool me. There ain't no Sanity Clause!
Andrew Torrance wrote: Would the evidence you have seen be sufficient to you so that you would risk your life in a war against Iraq ? If you would be prepared to face possible death , then you have the moral justification in asking others to do so for you . If you wish to hide behind a TV screen and just watch Gulf War II on the 6 o'clock news then you do not. I for one would not want to go to War with Iraq based on the evidence I have seen . Granted , the mans a nutter , granted it would be better world without him , but I am not prepared to lay my life on the line for what appears to be highly subjective evidence and dubya scrabbling around for new ideas in the war against terror. To be honest, I don't need to see any evidence that he's got weapons of mass destruction. To me this is a side issue. He's a dictator who doesn't allow free and fair elections and oppresses his people. That's enough for me to say to my government, What are you going to do about him. The same goes for any country that isn't a democracy. I think the UN should be doing more to overthrow these regimes. And yes, there is enough evidence for me to pick-up a gun and put my life on the line for other people's freedoms. We should have finished him in 91. Michael Programming is great. First they pay you to introduce bugs into software. Then they pay you to remove them again.
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There is a big difference between Sharon on those 3 idiots. Please don't joke like that.
This is not a joking matter Sharon and Israel are like Saddam and Iraq Both have violated UN resolutions Both have attacked other countries (Iraq on Kuwait) (Isreal on Pallistine) Both have killed innocent people Both are butchers in my eye
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Andrew Torrance wrote: Would the evidence you have seen be sufficient to you so that you would risk your life in a war against Iraq ? If you would be prepared to face possible death , then you have the moral justification in asking others to do so for you . If you wish to hide behind a TV screen and just watch Gulf War II on the 6 o'clock news then you do not. I for one would not want to go to War with Iraq based on the evidence I have seen . Granted , the mans a nutter , granted it would be better world without him , but I am not prepared to lay my life on the line for what appears to be highly subjective evidence and dubya scrabbling around for new ideas in the war against terror. To be honest, I don't need to see any evidence that he's got weapons of mass destruction. To me this is a side issue. He's a dictator who doesn't allow free and fair elections and oppresses his people. That's enough for me to say to my government, What are you going to do about him. The same goes for any country that isn't a democracy. I think the UN should be doing more to overthrow these regimes. And yes, there is enough evidence for me to pick-up a gun and put my life on the line for other people's freedoms. We should have finished him in 91. Michael Programming is great. First they pay you to introduce bugs into software. Then they pay you to remove them again.
Michael P Butler wrote: The same goes for any country that isn't a democracy. I think the UN should be doing more to overthrow these regimes. Pakistan is not a democracy - does that mean it will be next in line to get beaten up by the U.S. I like to see them try - as Pakistan is a Nuclear Power
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Ed K wrote: Israel is in a defensive mode. After Israel occupied Palestinian territory it is in deffensive mode, of course.
Samsung wrote: After Israel occupied Palestinian territory it is in deffensive mode, of course. Which was directly after the Palestinians (and most all the other arab nations in the area) made a surprise attack on Israel on a Jewish Holy Day. I believe it is also known as the 7 day war. Israel won the war decisively, taking territory, some of which it turned into a buffer zone. Now the Palestinians want it back. Some call it "Deacon Blues", I call it "Sore Losers". :laugh: Now...what HS/College did you go to so I'll know not to send my kids there? :| ed Every time I walk into a singles bar I can hear Mom's wise words: "Don't pick that up, you don't know where it's been!"
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bro, you obviously dont know the history Jews have lived in Israel for over 2,000 years. Prior to the Jews, the land was inhabited by the Philistines (NOT Palestinians, "Palestine" is a name the Bitish gave to Jordanian, Syrian, Egyptian and other Arab immigrants that moved into the area in the early 1900s. Philistines are an ancient civilization that no longer exist). In the early 1900s Jews outnumbered Arabs 10:1 in the region. When the British decided to leave the region, it originally allocated a mucher larger area for Jews (All the way to the Jordanian river). But because of a huge Arab uproar, they had to retract and give the Jordan area to the Arabs, leaving only a small area for the Jews. Now Palestinians want peices of that land too. Where does it end? So there was never any occupation. This land always belonged to Jews (Acheological digs back this up). Arab immigrants in the area wanted there own land. And even after all that has passed Jews have been nice enough to give them Gaza and the West Bank. I think Jews have gone way out of the way to be nice to these people.
Isreal is full of immigrants that is occupying land of the palistine people. Isreal should be ashamed of it self, It is doing the same to the palistine that the germans did to the Jews Shame on You.
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Another true believer in the long long list of idiots. We don't want a war with Iraq. We want to remove a tyrant from power. There is nothing in Iraq we couldn't get from somewhere else. If it was a true "war" it would last about 20 min and be over with. Oh wow! Another bloody misguided soul who thinks that US has the hand of God to remove or put tyrants to run countries. Grow out of your shell and start learning about other side of the planet. The evidence against Iraq supporting terrorists (especially the Sept. 11 terrorists) is flimsy at best. Countries like Pakistan has more links to Al-Qaida and the likes than Iraq. And then we will kill you and then your childern can hate us and then we will kill them ad infinitum.. Or they will kill themselves trying to emulate their father. Who do you think will last the longest - your family line or the US. The insanity has to end some where either thru attrition or education. Such comments are uncalled for. I am just saying that the roots of hatrad will not go away through mindless destruction. You cannot hold someone guilty until proven innocent. Same thing happened in Afghanistan. Forget Osama's children, you could not even get the man and killed thousand innocents instead and probably watered his family tree. So MORON, sorry to disappoint you, the hatrad will last much longer than US or people like you. Anyways, did not want to fuel a war. And I am sure all you supporters of FREE SPEECH AND FREEDOM that you have been harking about, would not mind me having a different view than yours. Or wait, true democracy means everyone has to agree with everyone. Forgot that for a sec.. Without struggle, there is no progress
I'm sorry, but you are the fool in this discussion. You're a fool because you can't open your eyes because of your hatred of the west.
Jason Henderson
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"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Another true believer in the long long list of idiots. We don't want a war with Iraq. We want to remove a tyrant from power. There is nothing in Iraq we couldn't get from somewhere else. If it was a true "war" it would last about 20 min and be over with. Oh wow! Another bloody misguided soul who thinks that US has the hand of God to remove or put tyrants to run countries. Grow out of your shell and start learning about other side of the planet. The evidence against Iraq supporting terrorists (especially the Sept. 11 terrorists) is flimsy at best. Countries like Pakistan has more links to Al-Qaida and the likes than Iraq. And then we will kill you and then your childern can hate us and then we will kill them ad infinitum.. Or they will kill themselves trying to emulate their father. Who do you think will last the longest - your family line or the US. The insanity has to end some where either thru attrition or education. Such comments are uncalled for. I am just saying that the roots of hatrad will not go away through mindless destruction. You cannot hold someone guilty until proven innocent. Same thing happened in Afghanistan. Forget Osama's children, you could not even get the man and killed thousand innocents instead and probably watered his family tree. So MORON, sorry to disappoint you, the hatrad will last much longer than US or people like you. Anyways, did not want to fuel a war. And I am sure all you supporters of FREE SPEECH AND FREEDOM that you have been harking about, would not mind me having a different view than yours. Or wait, true democracy means everyone has to agree with everyone. Forgot that for a sec.. Without struggle, there is no progress
pankajdaga wrote: Oh wow! Another bloody misguided soul who thinks that US has the hand of God to remove or put tyrants to run countries. Grow out of your shell and start learning about other side of the planet. We have the right of might. We CAN do it therefore it behooves us to do it. And if it is the will of our Nation we WILL do it. And the other side of the planet better learn about us. A jihad and an AK ain't much to a F16. pankajdaga wrote: So MORON, sorry to disappoint you, the hatrad will last much longer than US or people like you. Are you really that dumb. In 20 -30 years oil will no longer be the primary source of fuel and at that time all paradigms will change. We don't really care if you hate us or not - just as long as you don't try to hurt us. We will just go on our merry way and let the desert reclaim its own. pankajdaga wrote: Without struggle, there is no progress And without progress there is no future. And guess where all the progress is baby - here - not there. Richard We are called the nation of inventors. And we are. We could still claim that title and wear its loftiest honors if we had stopped with the first thing we ever invented, which was human liberty. Mark Twain- Foreign Critics speech, 1890
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Michael P Butler wrote: The same goes for any country that isn't a democracy. I think the UN should be doing more to overthrow these regimes. Pakistan is not a democracy - does that mean it will be next in line to get beaten up by the U.S. I like to see them try - as Pakistan is a Nuclear Power
John Smith wrote: Pakistan is not a democracy - does that mean it will be next in line to get beaten up by the U.S. You'll notice I send UN - not US. The US on it's own can't being freedom to people. Only the collective countries under the UN can do this. John Smith wrote: I like to see them try - as Pakistan is a Nuclear Power Just because they have nukes, does that mean their people shouldn't be allowed to vote and have the same freedoms enjoyed by ourselves. Michael Programming is great. First they pay you to introduce bugs into software. Then they pay you to remove them again.
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I'm sorry, but you are the fool in this discussion. You're a fool because you can't open your eyes because of your hatred of the west.
Jason Henderson
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"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillThere is no sentence where I say I hate the West. But I do not say that everything that they do is right either. Without struggle, there is no progress
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pankajdaga wrote: Oh wow! Another bloody misguided soul who thinks that US has the hand of God to remove or put tyrants to run countries. Grow out of your shell and start learning about other side of the planet. We have the right of might. We CAN do it therefore it behooves us to do it. And if it is the will of our Nation we WILL do it. And the other side of the planet better learn about us. A jihad and an AK ain't much to a F16. pankajdaga wrote: So MORON, sorry to disappoint you, the hatrad will last much longer than US or people like you. Are you really that dumb. In 20 -30 years oil will no longer be the primary source of fuel and at that time all paradigms will change. We don't really care if you hate us or not - just as long as you don't try to hurt us. We will just go on our merry way and let the desert reclaim its own. pankajdaga wrote: Without struggle, there is no progress And without progress there is no future. And guess where all the progress is baby - here - not there. Richard We are called the nation of inventors. And we are. We could still claim that title and wear its loftiest honors if we had stopped with the first thing we ever invented, which was human liberty. Mark Twain- Foreign Critics speech, 1890
Foolish words. Probably spoken by many superpowers at different times. You are reiterating my point of US being a bully. We have the right of might. We CAN do it therefore it behooves us to do it. And if it is the will of our Nation we WILL do it. And the other side of the planet better learn about us. A jihad and an AK ain't much to a F16. Yes, let us suck the oil resources till they last. Let us kill everyone there. Who gives a damn. That is precisely what is the sole interest of US as you echoed. And you ask for examples of US sucking resources. Are you really that dumb. In 20 -30 years oil will no longer be the primary source of fuel and at that time all paradigms will change. We don't really care if you hate us or not - just as long as you don't try to hurt us. We will just go on our merry way and let the desert reclaim its own. Yes, typical American view. Your world is concentrated in your country and you have no idea of anything beyond it. No wonder most of the Americans I meet here, never wanna set foot back in the US. And without progress there is no future. And guess where all the progress is baby - here - not there. Anyways, did not want to start a word war like I said. I guess we will have to see how things unfold. Saddam will go 8which is a good thing), but it is a fact that Iraq will be raped economically by the US. And no need to say it, I know you are proud of that. Pankaj Without struggle, there is no progress
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Isreal is full of immigrants that is occupying land of the palistine people. Isreal should be ashamed of it self, It is doing the same to the palistine that the germans did to the Jews Shame on You.
John Smith wrote: It is doing the same to the palistine that the germans did to the Jews John Smith wrote: Shame on You. no.. shame on you for saying something as stupid as that. Israel is not gassing, cooking or performing medical experiments on the Palistinians. disgusting
Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming: "Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp."