Visual programming in 3D
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I saw your 'Bob' a few weeks ago. (If you'll pardon the expression.) These are also impressive. :thumbsup: Have you used Blender? If so, would you say Apprentice is easier/harder/about same as Blender? I have tried Blender a few times, but keep running out of talent.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Thanks, actually I'm planning on re-doing Bob in Houdini and learning character animation with him as the model. Yeah, I built this[^] using Blender.
Henry Minute wrote:
If so, would you say Apprentice is easier/harder/about same as Blender?
I'd say they are roughly equivalent. Blender might be "easier" simply because there are *so* many free tutorials out there covering a pretty massive range issues and/or questions that come up with trying to use it. However the breadth and depth of Houdini is simply astonishing (to me at least) compared to Blender. Initially modeling may actually be easier in Blender compared to Houdini, but once you start to learn where things are in Houdini, that starts to go away. After having used both, I'd personally say just suck it up and learn Houdini. It's simply so much better and you have so many more options with what you can do. Plus once you have a model, the ways you can animate it, blow it up, turn it into water/sand/ice, or light it on fire are just way easier to do in Houdini than in Blender!
Henry Minute wrote:
I have tried Blender a few times, but keep running out of talent.
Yeah I'd tried 3D modeling before, but it never stuck, I was always too impatient. This time I just forced myself to stick with it, accept the fact that the tools were complex, and move on. Eventually things start to fall in place :)
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I've been trying to teach myself 3D tools (modeling, animation, etc), recently focusing on learning to use Houdini[^] (I picked Houdini because they have a fantastic free version called Apprentice[^] which you can use, and since Autodesk now owns Maya, 3DS Max, and Softimage, there are no other non-commercial editions of production grade 3D software available). One of the *really* cool things about Houdini is that it's entirely procedural. You can build your model, and as you make changes a complete network of all your steps is built, allowing you to go back and make modifications to some earlier step and have the results trickle down to the rest of network. Where it gets really cool is that you can "program" various operators, like shaders (the things that color or texture the model), surface operators, and so on, in a visual way. You can put together complete networks that perform various operations, such as how to process the incoming light on the geometric surface of your model, and then color it, or add other elements together, till you end up with a final output color. It made me wonder about what might happen if you were to take some of the ideas in their software and apply them to the more traditional IDE, what could you do to improve things or make things easier, or more productive. As a programmer this is just really, really cool to walk through and explore, I can't say how impressed I am with the software. Anyhow, if you're at all interested in 3D graphics, check out the software and give it a whirl, it's really cool stuff. This is a recent example[^] of what I've been playing around with.
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Have you tried TrueSpace? It's free (v 7.6) now and although it has a strange user interface, I've always enjoyed playing with it. You can add a bunch of objects, then 'turn on' gravity and watch them react in the design window - which is kinda relaxing too! 3dS Max is (I think) what you call 'entirely procedural' - I think of it as being fully OO- change a base class and inherited classes take on the changes. I alwas enjoyed that about it - makes more sense than having to undo 50 steps to change something. I'll certainly give it a play when I have time.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I've been trying to teach myself 3D tools (modeling, animation, etc), recently focusing on learning to use Houdini[^] (I picked Houdini because they have a fantastic free version called Apprentice[^] which you can use, and since Autodesk now owns Maya, 3DS Max, and Softimage, there are no other non-commercial editions of production grade 3D software available). One of the *really* cool things about Houdini is that it's entirely procedural. You can build your model, and as you make changes a complete network of all your steps is built, allowing you to go back and make modifications to some earlier step and have the results trickle down to the rest of network. Where it gets really cool is that you can "program" various operators, like shaders (the things that color or texture the model), surface operators, and so on, in a visual way. You can put together complete networks that perform various operations, such as how to process the incoming light on the geometric surface of your model, and then color it, or add other elements together, till you end up with a final output color. It made me wonder about what might happen if you were to take some of the ideas in their software and apply them to the more traditional IDE, what could you do to improve things or make things easier, or more productive. As a programmer this is just really, really cool to walk through and explore, I can't say how impressed I am with the software. Anyhow, if you're at all interested in 3D graphics, check out the software and give it a whirl, it's really cool stuff. This is a recent example[^] of what I've been playing around with.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
One of the *really* cool things about Houdini is that it's entirely procedural.
Lightwave 3D is going that route now too with their Core[^] product. Sadly, they've also taken the "pay us and become part of a select group that helps us develop our next generation of software". That's right, we have the privilage of paying them while they work on their product. I'm a Lightwave guy, but I'm not stupid. Needless to say I didn't go for the Core upgrade and I'll wait until a couple of actual releases before I dump any money that way. Cheers, Drew.
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Jim Crafton wrote:
One of the *really* cool things about Houdini is that it's entirely procedural.
Lightwave 3D is going that route now too with their Core[^] product. Sadly, they've also taken the "pay us and become part of a select group that helps us develop our next generation of software". That's right, we have the privilage of paying them while they work on their product. I'm a Lightwave guy, but I'm not stupid. Needless to say I didn't go for the Core upgrade and I'll wait until a couple of actual releases before I dump any money that way. Cheers, Drew.
Have you considered Houdini? I looked at Lightwave too, but they don't have any kind of learning edition so it's not worth me using (otherwise you're stuck using cracked versions which I do not want to do).
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Have you tried TrueSpace? It's free (v 7.6) now and although it has a strange user interface, I've always enjoyed playing with it. You can add a bunch of objects, then 'turn on' gravity and watch them react in the design window - which is kinda relaxing too! 3dS Max is (I think) what you call 'entirely procedural' - I think of it as being fully OO- change a base class and inherited classes take on the changes. I alwas enjoyed that about it - makes more sense than having to undo 50 steps to change something. I'll certainly give it a play when I have time.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Maxxx_ wrote:
Have you tried TrueSpace?
Yeah I tried it a bit. Didn't really like it.
Maxxx_ wrote:
You can add a bunch of objects, then 'turn on' gravity and watch them react in the design window
You can do this with Houdini too. They make it absurdly easy to put together basics of a solid body dynamics scene, stuff like gravity, collision, etc. Very cool!
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Have you considered Houdini? I looked at Lightwave too, but they don't have any kind of learning edition so it's not worth me using (otherwise you're stuck using cracked versions which I do not want to do).
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Houdini's too pricey for what I need. I've used Lightwave here at work for quite awhile - it fits well into my work pipeline. Cheers, Drew.
Have you seen Modo? Apparently that was made by a bunch of ex-Lightwave guys. I played around with it a bit, I really liked it, really great modeling tools.
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Have you seen Modo? Apparently that was made by a bunch of ex-Lightwave guys. I played around with it a bit, I really liked it, really great modeling tools.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
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I've been trying to teach myself 3D tools (modeling, animation, etc), recently focusing on learning to use Houdini[^] (I picked Houdini because they have a fantastic free version called Apprentice[^] which you can use, and since Autodesk now owns Maya, 3DS Max, and Softimage, there are no other non-commercial editions of production grade 3D software available). One of the *really* cool things about Houdini is that it's entirely procedural. You can build your model, and as you make changes a complete network of all your steps is built, allowing you to go back and make modifications to some earlier step and have the results trickle down to the rest of network. Where it gets really cool is that you can "program" various operators, like shaders (the things that color or texture the model), surface operators, and so on, in a visual way. You can put together complete networks that perform various operations, such as how to process the incoming light on the geometric surface of your model, and then color it, or add other elements together, till you end up with a final output color. It made me wonder about what might happen if you were to take some of the ideas in their software and apply them to the more traditional IDE, what could you do to improve things or make things easier, or more productive. As a programmer this is just really, really cool to walk through and explore, I can't say how impressed I am with the software. Anyhow, if you're at all interested in 3D graphics, check out the software and give it a whirl, it's really cool stuff. This is a recent example[^] of what I've been playing around with.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
I have had an idea related to this, where you have 3D glasses and some detectors on your body, so that you can move around in a 3D world. In that world you program by building machines, like connecting pipes, small gadgets, and stuff like that to make your machine, i.e. your software. When you run it you can take it step by step and see how the machine is gradually going through its process. The result can later on be viewed as more or less normal code if you like. I think it would be cool, and perhaps easy for persons to learn to program that way, since the whole thing becomes so down to earth, so concrete and less abstrac. And you would also move your body a lot when you program, which is good for the health :) Magnus
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I have had an idea related to this, where you have 3D glasses and some detectors on your body, so that you can move around in a 3D world. In that world you program by building machines, like connecting pipes, small gadgets, and stuff like that to make your machine, i.e. your software. When you run it you can take it step by step and see how the machine is gradually going through its process. The result can later on be viewed as more or less normal code if you like. I think it would be cool, and perhaps easy for persons to learn to program that way, since the whole thing becomes so down to earth, so concrete and less abstrac. And you would also move your body a lot when you program, which is good for the health :) Magnus
The visual and physical operation metaphor is great. more people can relate to things they push-n-pull about with their hands. As the object orient program language tools develop to the next level, this kind of programing for the masses will be more viable. It will probably start as simple scripting like pre-set block work. kits will come out using pre-defined modules to accomplish particular operations. This will be followed by a developer set where you build your own module blocks to add to the box-set. pretty soon, we're at Star Trek level... um, computer... please display the weather forcast for next week, and include my current clean clothes for comparision to build a potential wardrobe set.... Then of course, comes George Jetson, 'man, I had to push that button 5 times today...' and then Idiocracy http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808 Then it all explodes.. :omg:
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I have had an idea related to this, where you have 3D glasses and some detectors on your body, so that you can move around in a 3D world. In that world you program by building machines, like connecting pipes, small gadgets, and stuff like that to make your machine, i.e. your software. When you run it you can take it step by step and see how the machine is gradually going through its process. The result can later on be viewed as more or less normal code if you like. I think it would be cool, and perhaps easy for persons to learn to program that way, since the whole thing becomes so down to earth, so concrete and less abstrac. And you would also move your body a lot when you program, which is good for the health :) Magnus
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Thanks ARon, That is definitely an interesting technique, and also very nicely presented! Yeah, that concept, perhaps combined with real stereoscopic viewing, applied to my basic idea of building "software machines", would come very close to what I envision. I think I would like to program that way! Magnus