WPF--Why? No, Really!
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Yeah, I hear you. Fortunately, I have a full head of hair remaining, so I figure once WPF is deprecated by SUX (Simple User eXperience framework) for Midori Windows 2016, I'll need to invest in some Rogaine. :)
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
That's *really* not funny! :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
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Christian Graus wrote:
I just hope they fix it with time.
I think they will. Given they're using it all over the place in the next version of VS, I suspect they'll hit many of the pain points we've experienced and, unless they're masochists, fix them. :)
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
Given they're using it all over the place in the next version of VS
You do realize that all they are using it for is the text editor (and related intellisense pop-ups) right? Unless that's recently changed...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
MS is trying to dumb it down so that anyone that's ever written HTML in a web page can feel empowered to write an enterprise-level application.
That a framework can be accused simultaneously of being too complex and too dumbed down shows that it truly is a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't kind of situation for MS.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
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Shog9 wrote:
Then what the hell is The Soapbox for?
It's for compliments and/or positive reviews about Microsoft products which inevitably lead to flamewars and riots. It's like telling an oppressed people that their ruler really is a nice person if you get to know them :D
Todd Smith
Todd Smith wrote:
It's like telling an oppressed people that their ruler really is a nice person if you get to know them
:laugh:
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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Judah Himango wrote:
Given they're using it all over the place in the next version of VS
You do realize that all they are using it for is the text editor (and related intellisense pop-ups) right? Unless that's recently changed...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
Also the "Start Page". Of course it has been totally useless for me.
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Just gotta realize that there is no direct path from WinForms to WPF. Two completely different ways of thinking... Drove me crazy for a while too, but I'm slowly adapting. I'll tell ya, maintaining a large WinForms application and a medium-sized WPF application at the same time really taxes the mental processors... Talk about context-switching... I really only have two gripes with WPF... 1) The WYSIWYG part of the designer just plain sucks. I only use it to position buttons on panels by coordinates. The XAML section is a lot nicer, though it would be nice if it was a little better with local namespaces. 2) DependencyProperty syntax is clumsy and ugly. There has to be a better way to do this. Seriously, if you have more than a few in one class, you might as well just make a partial class file ("MyClass.DependencyProps.cs") just to get them out of the way... Makes the code horrible to read.
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Like most of you, I spend my days (and many nights) in the trenches, and have for nearly 30 years. I came up through assembly to C through C++ to C#, and a bunch of other stuff as side trips along the way. Having come from a place where there were NO IDE's to ease my pain, I'm supremely grateful for the ability to drag controls onto a form, smoosh 'em around, set some properties and be up and running with a skeleton to flesh out and deliver. I do NOT work with or have access to a graphic artist, nor do I wish to. Anyway, for the last several months on and off, I have attempted to come to grips with WPF, and I've finally arrived at the conclusion that it's just not worth the effort! In general, it's more work and more frustration for MUCH less functionality! Come on, MS! If I want to tinker endlessly with markup, I'll write in HTML, and likely have something that works in much less time and effort. To obtain the same level of useability I get with Windows Forms apps using WPF takes unbelieveable amounts of time and effort. Latest and greatest, my achin' posterior! Am I wrong? What am I missing here, folks?? Too busy for the MS merry-go-round, Duane Doutel
Perhaps I'm a little bit biased, being a member of a group called the WPF Disciples, but I love using WPF. Seriously, once I got my head around the concepts, developing non-trivial LOB apps actually became a lot easier because of WPF and it's phenomonal support for data binding. If you stop thinking of WPF in WinForms terms, and approach it from ASP.NET terms, it actually starts to make a lot of sense *shameless plug for my article[^] on this very issue*.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Perhaps I'm a little bit biased, being a member of a group called the WPF Disciples, but I love using WPF. Seriously, once I got my head around the concepts, developing non-trivial LOB apps actually became a lot easier because of WPF and it's phenomonal support for data binding. If you stop thinking of WPF in WinForms terms, and approach it from ASP.NET terms, it actually starts to make a lot of sense *shameless plug for my article[^] on this very issue*.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Oh no, there's an army of us...
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The End of Eternity by Isaac Asimov Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Also the "Start Page". Of course it has been totally useless for me.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Of course it has been totally useless for me.
"it" being WPF or the start page? Pedantic of me, I know.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The End of Eternity by Isaac Asimov Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Of course it has been totally useless for me.
"it" being WPF or the start page? Pedantic of me, I know.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The End of Eternity by Isaac Asimov Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Start Page
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Ray Cassick wrote:
I was wishing that there would be some basic conversion tools to get a basic windows forms app converted over to using WPF.
Nowhere near done, but interesting... http://wf2wpf.codeplex.com/[^]
Shog - I've just voted for you as moderator on Stack Overflow.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Like most of you, I spend my days (and many nights) in the trenches, and have for nearly 30 years. I came up through assembly to C through C++ to C#, and a bunch of other stuff as side trips along the way. Having come from a place where there were NO IDE's to ease my pain, I'm supremely grateful for the ability to drag controls onto a form, smoosh 'em around, set some properties and be up and running with a skeleton to flesh out and deliver. I do NOT work with or have access to a graphic artist, nor do I wish to. Anyway, for the last several months on and off, I have attempted to come to grips with WPF, and I've finally arrived at the conclusion that it's just not worth the effort! In general, it's more work and more frustration for MUCH less functionality! Come on, MS! If I want to tinker endlessly with markup, I'll write in HTML, and likely have something that works in much less time and effort. To obtain the same level of useability I get with Windows Forms apps using WPF takes unbelieveable amounts of time and effort. Latest and greatest, my achin' posterior! Am I wrong? What am I missing here, folks?? Too busy for the MS merry-go-round, Duane Doutel
You are right sir. Don't just blindly follow their lead, MS does some great stuff, but they also screw up once in a while. I put WPF and a lot more of .NET 3.5 in the screw up bin (250 MB download, WTF???). Also I'm not sold on linq for DB access either. I'm gonna lean back a year or two and see what's left standing at that point.
Wout
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Shog - I've just voted for you as moderator on Stack Overflow.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Also the "Start Page". Of course it has been totally useless for me.
Ya know, I'm the only programmer on my team that doesn't have the Start Page active and that has the last opened project load when VS is started. I'm also the only one on the team that codes for fun at home...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Ya know, I'm the only programmer on my team that doesn't have the Start Page active and that has the last opened project load when VS is started. I'm also the only one on the team that codes for fun at home...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
SoapBox 2.0 is for posting things you'd really rather not be read...
...and for humor that requires more than a few active cerebral synapses to "get". For instance, subtle humor with a large dose of irony about Swine Flu and Muslims doesn't pass muster here in the Lounge. I've found that a joke posted in the Lounge has to be at least a year old and contain no more than one multi-syllable word.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Start Page
I disable the start page; it has no part in productivity... not like CP.
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You are right sir. Don't just blindly follow their lead, MS does some great stuff, but they also screw up once in a while. I put WPF and a lot more of .NET 3.5 in the screw up bin (250 MB download, WTF???). Also I'm not sold on linq for DB access either. I'm gonna lean back a year or two and see what's left standing at that point.
Wout
I'm with you. I prefer to retain more control over what's going on.
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You are right sir. Don't just blindly follow their lead, MS does some great stuff, but they also screw up once in a while. I put WPF and a lot more of .NET 3.5 in the screw up bin (250 MB download, WTF???). Also I'm not sold on linq for DB access either. I'm gonna lean back a year or two and see what's left standing at that point.
Wout
wout de zeeuw wrote:
I'm not sold on linq for DB access either.
I am not quite sold on it either.
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